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Forum: The Other Side
Thread (Discussion): Examinations of Alternative Citizenships
Message 160622
Introduction to Thread
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 04, 2005 11:07 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
I know SOs and their families in the United States are attached to their country, the times are changing and the basic right of a safe and secure life in the United States, following the payment of their debt to society, is gone for many and going for all.
Society sets certain punishements for certain crimes. Criminals pay that debt and are supposed to be able to move about freely and able to rebuild thier lives.
Sex offenders and those that love them have lost or are about to lose that right. The children of sex offenders are being severely abused by the citizens of the United States. The souses and friends of sex offenders are being shunned and humiliated by the citizens of the United States.
I have mentioned often about the option of leaving the United States AFTER the punishment phase of our crimes are served.
This move is not for everybody. In fact, I predict less than 1-3% of sex offenders have the inclination to leave and even fewer have the means or the resolve. This thread is not for those who wish to stay. This thread is for those who are interested in leaving, with their families and/or friends and renouncing their citizenship.
There is little limit on the amount of criticism that can be directed at me or this idea. I only ask that the reader(s) keep an open mind and a free their imaginations enough to consider 2010 United States with 2010 in any of the nations studied. Many nations will not allow SOs to visit, much less immigrate, others are not so enslaved to the blind and ignorant fury of the typical "pee in the pants" American.
If you do not like this option, you are not compelled to use it, or to read these posts. If you have information that canbenefit those who may consider this option, please share. My research is not all-knowing, my information is not 100% verified. I try to make unofficial contact with citizens of the nations I examine to gauge the "feel" for this plan.
There are several things must be done well before trying this option.
1. You must be clear with the IRS. I am not, but working on it.
2. You must not have support arrears. I do, but working on it.
3. You must openly and seriously discuss this with your spouses and children. This move is not reversable. Once you burn your passport, you will not be coming back.
4. You must make sure you have gotten the required counseling and be sure you are not doing this to renew your "supply" of victims. Most nations that will accept you will kill you if you offend there. Interestingly enough, the nations that will not accept you have lighter sentences than the US in many cases, Canada and the UK for example.
5. Never, no matter your true intentions, state in any media, digital, phone, written or orally, that you intend to renounce your citizenship to take up arms against the United States. If you are conscripted by your new nation, then that is your duty, but you should not express that you are leaving to become an enemy. I was recently spanked for some of my implications in this matter, though I may talk big, I doubt I could actually kill Americans unless they are trying to kill me. Since I usually do everything half arsed, I would probably forget one step of being a suicide bomber and mess it up. hehehe.
Anyway.... here goes.
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Message 160695 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Posted by amberleaf
on Sep 06, 2005 01:41 AM | Also by amberleaf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: West Virginia,
Country: United States |
I am all for it. Where do we go and when do we leave?
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Message 160769 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Posted by indisaray
on Sep 06, 2005 06:39 PM | Also by indisaray
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
Here is some info on the new registration laws in Canada..It only lets the police have the improtant information and will allow an individual to live in peace..
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/techops/nsor/nsor_backgrounder_e.htm
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Message 160852 (In Reply to Message 160769)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 07, 2005 02:23 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Canadian law does not allow convicted US felons to take up residence in that country. Makes no difference if you're a sex offender. A burglar can't move their either.
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Message 160861 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Angola
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 07, 2005 05:02 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
War torn and eager to rebuild.
Anyone with the following skills should be consider Angola over the next 4 years. Learn Portuguese.
Energy, particulary gas turbine, generator, distribution, operations, maintenance and repair. Pumps, motors, control technicians, electricians. These folks should go as "ex pat" workers and then stay. The rewards, financial and personal will be great.
Water treatment, for power stations and potable systems
Road construction, particulary paving and crew leadership.
Tourism, especially hotel booking and marketing, with an emphasis on web-based reservations and marketing to new markets.
Internet Providers and internet infrastructure development. Instructors to teach IT/IS and computer operation.
Cell phone tower construction and maintenance(land lines are a thing of the past in the real world)
Trainers in any of the above specialities, especially those who are fluent in Portuguese. English teachers with a technical backgroud are needed ASAP to support new power plant developments.
Angola may seem like a grim choice for many. It is considered dangerous.
However, I counter that it is much more dangerous in Washington, Colorado and the US in general for sex offenders and their families.
http://www.angola.org/
Next.......................... Iran
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Message 160896 (In Reply to Message 160861)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 08, 2005 01:03 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Not for me:-))
By far the best choices are in Eastern and Central Europe. Developed, but room for improvement. Skills in manufacturing technology, petroleum industry, power generation and transmission and language are in demand. Everybody in the area wants to learn English, and everybody in business who wants to grow has to learn it.
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Message 160924 (In Reply to Message 160622)
I agree
Posted by Draco
on Sep 08, 2005 06:10 AM | Also by Draco
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I am currently working on a listing, and will be posting it to many websites!
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Message 160956 (In Reply to Message 160896)
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 08, 2005 04:29 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
I agree with your geographical choice.
First, I have always had a thing for Eastern European ladies, secondly the region did seem to be a bit more reasonable.
However, many of the Eastern European nations are falling into the "with us or against us" manipulation from the US and some have disallowed visas for felons from the US. One nation, a tight ally of the US differs, Bulgaria.
I have several contacts there and so far anyway...... hard-working people who can prove they will not be a burden on the nation, but an asset are welcome.
We priced a hotel restaruant in the Black Sea about 6 months ago. It came to about $90,000 US and when we got our dual, we could own it. Once owners and dual citizens, we would then renounce and burn.
Timing was the issue and I am sure the place will be sold by the time we can go.
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Message 161085 (In Reply to Message 160956)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 09, 2005 10:37 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I'm undecided between Ukraine or Moldova. Of course if I were to ever reunite with my girlfriend, I'll be in Ekaterinburg Russia.
The main issue in Ukraine right now is the struggle within the government. I think the President just canned the whole Cabinet because of infighting between the US - Russia supporters.
Moldova is fairly stable other than the border dispute along the Dniestr River, where Moldova and Ukraine have conflicting claims on the Transdniestr area between the river and the Ukrainian border.
To the best of my knowledge neither country denys visas to felons. But the best thing is to have contacts already there. It's not who you are, it's who you know:-))
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Message 161158 (In Reply to Message 161085)
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 11, 2005 05:06 AM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
It's not who you are, it's who you know:-))
Exactly.
So far I have contacts in Angola, Iran, China, Indonesia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Egypt, Greece(Crete) and I am fostering relationships in several other countries.
Wife and I had a big discussion over breakfast today about this. If I go, I will be going alone it seems.
So be it. I will not spend the next 50 years being the whipping boy for the idiots of America.
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Message 161396 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Belize and Costa Rica
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 13, 2005 04:35 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Saw on another site that Belize and Costa Rica are not allowing felons from the US to become citizens.
This has not been verified.
The "movement" is gaining speed, I am shocked.
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Message 161965 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Iran
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 18, 2005 05:06 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Getting info to/from there has been tough.
However, my contacts, (only 2) tell me some bitter sweet things about Iran.
Former american SOs would be welcomed there but they must bring a significant contribution to the needs of the nation.
Former Americans will mostlikely never reach top positions in business.
Technical positions earning 2000-5000 US per month abound, especially in the nuclear and power fields.
Former US Air Force and Navy Missile techs who are now RSOs should seriously consider Iran as anew home. You would be treated very well, much much better than you can ever be expected to be treated in the United States of America.
Iran is also very interested in expanding and improving its rail infrastructure and anyone with heavy diesel, railway and generator experience should consider Iran as a new and wonderful home. General Electric, via non-US offices may soon replenish Iran with over 100 Engines and 500 wagons(cars). GE already sells gas turbines to Iran from its France office.
Family conditions in Iran are much better as well. Your children will not be outcasts in the schools, which by the way are VERY good. Iranians are not fools, and you can expect your child to get a good education and not be burdened with the stigmas of your RSO status or the problem of social status being more important than math homework.
Wives of RSOs will have to follow some modesty rules, but women in Iran are permitted, no, expected to work to provide for the greater good of their nation. Educated American women, wives of RSOs, would be the best way to get the family there!
Kish is going to be the next Dubai, and if you can get there fast enough, you might establish yourself in a nice place and be allowed to live out your life in relative peace, away from the United States and the hysteria that drives people to print out a public list and kill you and you family if they are close. Americans want to kill your kids because you are a RSO, so there is no safety for your children anymore.
Of course the down side to Iran is the posturing the United States is doing to convince the masses that the US needs to "spread peace and democracy" to Iran in the near future. When you are handed a rifle and asked to defend your home against American Marines coming to "set you free," it might be tough to pull the trigger.
The upside of Iran is that the world doesnt seem to fussed about finding new ways of moving our big butts from place to place, so oil will still be a vital commodity and Iran is VERY cash strong right now and there is no reason to think that will change soon.
China and Russia will protect Iran, so if the US decides to "free" the Iranian people, it will not be easy.
Iran is not Grenada, Beirut, Tripoli, Panama, Mogudishu(sp), Liberia, Colombia, or Iraq. Iraq was friendless, Iran is not. Sooner or later the US will go too far.
Does America think the 560,000 RSOs being listed here are going to help defend the US borders? HA, quite unlikely. American can "fend for themselves." LOL
Next: Colombia/Venezuela
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Message 161980 (In Reply to Message 161965)
Posted by brennus
on Sep 18, 2005 08:12 PM | Also by brennus
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 21 - 29,
State: Wisconsin,
Country: United States |
China and Russia will protect Iran, so if the US decides to "free" the Iranian people, it will not be easy. Iran is not Grenada, Beirut, Tripoli, Panama, Mogudishu(sp), Liberia, Colombia, or Iraq. Iraq was friendless, Iran is not. Sooner or later the US will go too far.
I doubt even George Bush II would go THAT far. He may be stupid and oil hungry, but not THAT stupid. If he decides to try and go to war against Iran, I'm headed to Canada or leaving wherver you go.
Are you worried that in case of such an event, there might be anti-American riots and restrictions implemented just like there are anti-SO restrictions here?
Does America think the 560,000 RSOs being listed here are going to help defend the US borders? HA, quite unlikely. American can "fend for themselves." LOL
There are a lot more than just RSO's who are disenchanted with this country. My guess is 2.5% of people would act as a 5th column if the US was invaded. Some of those without criminal records have already began leaving for Canada after Bush was reelected. Others will go elsewhere.
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Message 161983 (In Reply to Message 161980)
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 18, 2005 11:19 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Are you worried that in case of such an event, there might be anti-American riots and restrictions implemented just like there are anti-SO restrictions here?
Calculated risk versus a known situation.
If I stay, I KNOW my life and the life for my family will not get better. If I go, there is a chance it could turn anti-American... but I will not be an American and I would kill a US Marine to protect my family in Iran or whatever nation we choose.
I am finding out this is not a wild idea, nor is it original thought. RSOs wanting to leave the US is a movement and you can darn well assure that once they leave, they are not allies of the US.
The "movement" could begin to get well-organized soon, the Feds are going to make sure we know where everyone is. Excellent, we can begin donations and funds to make it a reality.
The great thing is that Americans cannot object to this movement, for it would contradict their wishes and laws!!!! Why would an American even want to stop a few million people from leaving if they are RSOs or loved ones of RSOs? Let them go! "We'll be better off without them!" hehehe
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Message 161996 (In Reply to Message 161983)
Posted by steve
on Sep 19, 2005 02:57 AM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
The great thing is that Americans cannot object to this movement, for it would contradict their wishes and laws!!!! Why would an American even want to stop a few million people from leaving if they are RSOs or loved ones of RSOs? Let them go! "We'll be better off without them!" hehehe
Though I don't agree with the logic in the first sentence above, I think most Americans would be happy to see convicted sex offenders leave the country. A new poll was added to the site a few minutes ago which was inspired by this thread.
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Message 162102 (In Reply to Message 161996)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 20, 2005 02:06 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Couldn't check my answer because it wasn't there.
I would rejoice but stick around to ask the misguided public six months later why there had been no significant drop in sex offenses even though all the RSOs left.
Or maybe I wouldn't stay. As the only RSO left no doubt I would be accused of having victimized 482,000 kids in the previous six months.
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Message 162105 (In Reply to Message 162102)
Posted by Valerie
on Sep 20, 2005 03:01 AM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I would suppose it must be a heck of a note to commit a crime in the eyes of society that you would have to renounce your own citizenship, let alone so many other countries refusing to take you for those crimes....some legacy to leave uh?
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Message 162119 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Suggestion
Posted by anonymous45654
on Sep 20, 2005 11:53 AM | Also by anonymous45654
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
You can go to an intermediate country that does allow people with a record first, become a citizen of that country (Burn US passport) and stay there a few years and then change to the country that does not allow people with a record using your previews citizenship.
Look into it; it is possible.
Also, why would you be interested in clearing yourself with the IRS. Many countries do not consider tax crimes an extraditable offense they consider it to be a civil matter at best. Same thing goes for support arrears. Do not be a fool they will never let you go because all those things are designed to keep you in the US systems bureaucracy going in circles standing in line going from window A to B to C then tell you "all your have left to do is window D", but when you finish at D they will tell you that you must go to A.
Just pick up and go when its convenient for you that all you need to do. Leave creditors hanging and buy and old car that barely runs and just abandon it at the airport so that it must be towed at the county expense. Just have some fun leaving a few things hanging behind you. Choose carefully so they can’t get you for anything after you leave. Wouldn’t it be fun to know they are still sending all those letters to your old US address?
Be certain you put all your money in an offshore bank that is not US based and the country is not too cozy with the US and has strict banking confidentiality laws.
Setup one or more corporations in one of those offshore countries and use a corporate account. Do not use your US passport to open accounts use ID from your new country such as drivers Lic. or corporate ID papers only. By doing this you do not need to wait to receive your passport from your new country.
Make sure the bank you chose is also legitimate and financially solid because many offshore banks have gone under in some of these offshore countries, so it would also be a good idea to split your money up into 3 or 4 and put it in 3 or 4 different countries/banks.
Working out the logistics to avoid all the potential snags on how to do all of this can take some time and can vary significantly if you change just one little thing like bank, country, corporation country etc
I am not a sex offender so what do I get out of this? Well I get to know that my suggestion has cost the IRS some money in lost revenue. :)
I think all Americans would expect that those that have immigrated to the US would take-up arms to defend the US if ordered to do so by the US gov even if those they are fighting against was the country they immigrated from. So what is wrong with a former American taking up arms to defend the new country they have immigrated to if ordered to do so by that gov no matter who they are defending against? I am not referring to terrorism, only military action under a countries flag in uniform according to the Geneva convention (yea remember that convention the one the US only abides by when it feels like it, i.e. Guantanamo).
Remember a while back, that Colonial vs British Empire 100’s of years ago. If you follow the US logic then all those that fought for independence should have been hanging before a King. Have Americans really become this self centered and conceited that they think the world revolves around them and US law? I rest my case. Fortunately a new global superpower China is rising on the horizon. US vs China would be a draw since they both have nukes but China could cause the US a lot of pain in a Vietnam type conflict and hopefully they will if the US tries to push them around.
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Message 162149 (In Reply to Message 162105)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 20, 2005 02:47 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
let alone so many other countries refusing to take you for those crimes
Many countries have barred felons for decades. Makes no difference if it's a sex offense or not. Canada for example doesn't care if you beat somebody up and caught an Aggravated Assault charge or you fondled a 10 year-old. Both will keep you out of the country.
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Message 162159 (In Reply to Message 162105)
Posted by Navigatr1
on Sep 20, 2005 03:12 PM | Also by Navigatr1
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Actually it is a sad reflection on society that a person would have even renounce their citizenship.
--Navigatr1
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Message 162173 (In Reply to Message 162119)
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 20, 2005 05:20 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Have Americans really become this self centered and conceited that they think the world revolves around them and US law?
Yes, I believe so.
Thank you for the insights!
I have not completely researched all the angles and logistics. You helped me see some things I had not been willing to see. Thanks again.
I personally will not leave until I pay my "debt" to American Society. Once supervision is complete and ALL the things I agreed to at my plea, then I may make moves to leave.
I do enjoy seeing people get upset that there are a large number of RSOs willing to leave the United States. They seem to prefer we stay and be their whipping boys for life, or they do not like what it implies when people would rather sell computers in Teheran than live in Florida being blanketed by the dust from African feces.
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Message 162174 (In Reply to Message 162149)
Posted by PVulcan
on Sep 20, 2005 05:21 PM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
You can't get into Canada with a DUI either.
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Message 162182 (In Reply to Message 160852)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 20, 2005 05:56 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
It seems like one might be able to plead special circumstances if, for example, the offense would not be an offense in Canada, i.e. consensual sex with someone 14 or older.
Also, it would be interesting to see about claiming refugee status, that one is in fear for one's life in the U.S. With the murders in Washington that doesn't seem like an unreasonable claim!
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Message 162183 (In Reply to Message 161158)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 20, 2005 05:58 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
If you are able to make the move successfully, please keep in touch with me. As a future PO I want to be able to advise people what their options are.
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Message 162184 (In Reply to Message 162105)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 20, 2005 06:02 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
The pathetic legacy is that of those people who enacted these odious laws and those who fan the flames of hatred.
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Message 162257 (In Reply to Message 162173)
Posted by Valerie
on Sep 21, 2005 02:03 PM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I have no problem with sex offenders leaving, but I wouldnt wish the unsuspecting children of another country to endure what that offender did to his own country's children.
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Message 162305 (In Reply to Message 162257)
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 21, 2005 04:48 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Valerie,
I agree.
http://www.sexcriminals.com/forums/108/16938/160622.html
Point # 4:
4. You must make sure you have gotten the required counseling and be sure you are not doing this to renew your "supply" of victims. Most nations that will accept you will kill you if you offend there.
If a RSO is leaving the US to continue offending, she is making a huge mistake. She is much better off staying the US where parental supervision is almost non existant and the supply of victims is almost never ending.
This plan is ONLY for those who will not re-offend and will never be able to convince the people of the US of this. They and their families have so much to offer, and America is not willing to have it.
Let the Navy/Air Force missile technicians go to Iran, where they will better appreciated for more than just their crimes.
Let the NSA/CIA operatives go to Russia and China, where their knowledge of NSA forward listening posts within 1-2 miles of EVERY embassy can be identified and destroyed.
Let the police and special forces people go to central Africa, where gun running and mercenary warfare can make us millions.
Let the illiterate toothless rednecks in Florida who deny their crime and don't think they need help stay in the US. Gives DP1, you and others more time to watch those folks.
Where my dilema arises is that my wife spent hundreds on my shadowbox, and what will I do with that and the flag? I could Kerry them over the fence at the White House? Or I could keep the medals and burn the flag. Hmmmm decisions decisions.
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Message 162323 (In Reply to Message 162182)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 21, 2005 09:28 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
True in both cases. Not sure I would seek refugee status in a country rapidly headed down the same destructive path as the USA though. Not only are the people on the shores of the Black Sea nicer, the weather is too;-))
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Message 162326 (In Reply to Message 162323)
Posted by Renunciation
on Sep 21, 2005 09:46 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
I agree!!
Varna is calling out to us! It was the one place we all agreed we could live. That was where we found the hotel/restaurant for sale too.
Canada is out, I mean, even if it was already not permitted for felons, Canada is going to simply follow along like an obedient little puppy dog to the will of the US, just like the UK and other weak-minded nations.
They all plan to follow Pied Piper Uncle Sam right into being incarceration states. Spreading peace and democracy by teaching you how to lock up 1/6th of your population and create an elitist class of "law makers" that will never be out of a job.
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Message 163437 (In Reply to Message 162257)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Oct 04, 2005 07:49 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
Which, quite often, is: not much.
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Message 163562 (In Reply to Message 161983)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 05, 2005 04:18 AM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
what is with all this anti-american posturing? leaving the us is an option, yes. but once the decision is made, why bash america? it's a waste of energy. look ahead, not back. focus on how to make a better life, not how your life was so bad before. burning bridges and destroying options will not help you find happiness or prosperity. it will only help you stay in the pity pot and victim stance mode of thinking. in my humble opinion, of course. no offense.
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Message 163563 (In Reply to Message 162119)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 05, 2005 04:33 AM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
though i don'rt believe one should victimize anyone else in america by leaving debts and costing taxpayers money, mr. anonymous is correct on all counts of fact. i don't subscribe to this thinking because it is not healthy for me.
but one thing was overlooked. if you intend to keep your very valuable us passport, having a big debt to the irs or being seriously arears in support can cause a problem when you go to renew your passport in 10 years. i'm not saying that it will happen, only that it is possible for the court or the irs to request that the state department not renew your passport.
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Message 163564 (In Reply to Message 162173)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 05, 2005 04:35 AM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
who would be upset except those who care for you and your family?
it's a serious question. a serious and honest answer please.
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Message 163590 (In Reply to Message 163563)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Oct 05, 2005 05:05 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
though i don'rt believe one should victimize anyone else in america by leaving debts and costing taxpayers money
I do. I think that would be admirable, actually!
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Message 163593 (In Reply to Message 163564)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 05, 2005 05:23 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Huh? Of my family not joining me are encouraging me! They will not be least bit upset. They all think it is a good idea. Even those in the militia! LOL.
The IRS would be upset
They post in the National Register all those who leave and renounce in order to humiliate them. They also send the State Department to harass the people who did not go.
The NSA/CIA/Navy
They have their reasons.
Look up Citizen and Society
Apply those definitions to banished offenders.
They do not apply and therefore offenders owe NO allegiance to the United States because they do not receive protection. If you feel they do, ask those two offenders in WA who got their brains scattered by someone who found them using a website. How did their country protect them? They in fact created a law that enabled them to be murdered. Nope, sorry... I did my part for this nation... more than most, not doing anymore.
a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it
When naturalized as an Iranian, I will owe my allegiance to Iran, and will receive the same protection, if not more, from Iran, than I can EVER expect in the US........... hurricane shelters? Website hitlists?
I use Iran as an extreme example to make a point. I do not care to go there, but I would if things trend as they do now.
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Message 163594 (In Reply to Message 163563)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 05, 2005 05:26 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
The point is not to leave the US and remain an American, to what end? That is silly.
The point is to leave the US and renounce citizenship, and NEVER return.
Burn the passport at the embassy.
Leaving and remaining an American is a waste of time and money, Renounce.......... most of the world lives outside the US and they do just fine, until we decide to free them from tyranny and spread peace and democracy to their people that is.
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Message 163628 (In Reply to Message 163563)
Posted by orolan
on Oct 06, 2005 12:58 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
victimize anyone else in america by leaving debts and costing taxpayers money
I pay my bills, so there won't be any debts left. As for costing the taxpayers money, I pay a lot of taxes right now for services and facilities that I am no longer allowed to receive or frequent. So screw that. I don't care what I cost the taxpayers.
if you intend to keep your very valuable us passport
Valuable? These days that little book will get you killed in more countries than it will keep you alive. The State Department will get mine returned to them smeared with cow dung and pig urine, to make sure they know just how "valuable" it is to me:-))
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Message 163634 (In Reply to Message 163628)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 06, 2005 02:13 AM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
The State Department will get mine returned to them smeared with cow dung and pig urine, to make sure they know just how "valuable" it is to me:-))
Going to Moldova too!?!
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Message 163667 (In Reply to Message 163593)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 06, 2005 02:29 PM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
i was speaking in terms of just leaving and living, maybe forever, in another country. but i see what you are saying. even so, i doubt there will be any half mast flags flown, ya know?
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Message 163669 (In Reply to Message 163590)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 06, 2005 02:31 PM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
i have no idea why i am laughing heartily! maybe deep down inside i feel the same way, hehe.
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Message 163671 (In Reply to Message 163628)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 06, 2005 02:34 PM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
lol. yeah. i had forgotten about that point. i did pay a load of taxes for things that i can never use, or would have to go back to judge and grovel for. good point. guess i've been away too long.
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Message 163744 (In Reply to Message 163669)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Oct 07, 2005 04:54 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
I always remember the old joke about the preacher who was being crticized for taking donations from some unworthy person or other, and he responded: "If the Devil walked up to me and handed me $100 I'd just figure the Devil had had it long enough."
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Message 166479 (In Reply to Message 163671)
Posted by rodsmith
on Nov 04, 2005 05:17 PM | Also by rodsmith
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
another good place to go is China...just think of t he PR value to the chinese of americans getting off a plane in beijing and claiming protection from the US Gov for persecution.
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Message 166509 (In Reply to Message 163634)
Posted by orolan
on Nov 05, 2005 02:34 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Thought about it. A good chunk of change to made in modernizing their agriculture. Otherwise I'll hook up with 1Dad and go halves on a hotel in Odessa near the beach:-))
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Message 166520 (In Reply to Message 166479)
Posted by Renunciation
on Nov 05, 2005 04:17 AM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Good PR for China, but most Americans are too stupid to fear China right now.
What would shock the people to the core is former Navy and Air Force missile techs, Special Forces, CIA, LEO and NSA flying into Iran and doing the same thing.
THAT would send shock waves throughout the United States.
Most people understand that just because you committed a sex cime doesn't mean you have forgotten all else. To have that wasted talent in the United States be properly utilized by another nation would be a political nightmare. Especially if it can be proven that Iran used the public websites to send out recruitment letters, plane tickets and ID to get them there.
Yikes......... that IS a scary thought.
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Message 169945 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Another Rescource
Posted by Renunciation
on Dec 23, 2005 04:13 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
http://www.escapeartist.com/e_Books/Second_Passport/Second_Passport.html
Then there are those nations seeking people versed in a various skills who will willingly grant residency to those possessing those skills, sometimes even a passport and citizenship.
I don’t deal with one nation on its terms; I deal with all nations on my terms. My horizons are unlimited, I have never been so happy in my life. I am free at last.
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Message 171467 (In Reply to Message 160622)
Employment Discrimination Update
Posted by Renunciation
on Jan 17, 2006 07:28 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
http://www.newswatch50.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=51D2776A-A282-4672-B871-664F859CE7FD
This one is worth watching as we prepare to leave the US.
Renster
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Message 171483 (In Reply to Message 171467)
renunciation
Posted by rodsmith
on Jan 17, 2006 11:08 PM | Also by rodsmith
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
tried to check it out but it wouldn't work....
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Message 171486 (In Reply to Message 171467)
Posted by orolan
on Jan 18, 2006 01:47 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Hmmm. Wal-Mart says
...contending the agency lacks jurisdiction to consider the three complaints because the Human Rights Law does not prohibit discrimination against current employees on the basis of a record of a criminal conviction.
And yet the New York Human Rights Law says
15. It shall be an unlawful discriminatory practice for any person,
agency, bureau, corporation or association, including the state and any
political subdivision thereof, to deny any license or employment to any
individual by reason of his or her having been convicted of one or more
criminal offenses, or by reason of a finding of a lack of "good moral
character" which is based upon his or her having been convicted of one
or more criminal offenses, when such denial is in violation of the provisions of article twenty-three-A of the correction law.
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Message 171537 (In Reply to Message 171486)
Posted by Renunciation
on Jan 18, 2006 05:16 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
New York might be the place to go!
You dont get that protection in CA.
I was nearly beaten at a car dealership for applying, lol.
I sat the interview, dazzled the guy, I was hired,, he said all we have to is the app, just a formality. He wanted me to be his star sales guy!
Then, part of my T&C, I had to "Describe the nature of my crime" and I did so.. He was so furious that he turned red, demanded i get the F out of his office and called me a useless piece of crap(other word) as I left.
Then he did a review of all their employees and discovered their lead service writer had a felony she did not disclose, and we were friends too!
They fired her on the spot, 8 years spotless record as an employee, employee of the month several times........ gone............
I felt like poo poo........
Renny
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Thread
160622, Renunciation, Sep 04, 2005 11:07 PM [Introduction to Thread]
160695, amberleaf, Sep 06, 2005 01:41 AM
160769, indisaray, Sep 06, 2005 06:39 PM
160852, orolan, Sep 07, 2005 02:23 PM
162182, saintjimmy, Sep 20, 2005 05:56 PM
162323, orolan, Sep 21, 2005 09:28 PM
162326, Renunciation, Sep 21, 2005 09:46 PM
160861, Renunciation, Sep 07, 2005 05:02 PM [Angola]
160896, orolan, Sep 08, 2005 01:03 AM
160956, Renunciation, Sep 08, 2005 04:29 PM
161085, orolan, Sep 09, 2005 10:37 PM
161158, Renunciation, Sep 11, 2005 05:06 AM
162183, saintjimmy, Sep 20, 2005 05:58 PM
160924, Draco, Sep 08, 2005 06:10 AM [I agree]
161396, Renunciation, Sep 13, 2005 04:35 PM [Belize and Costa Rica]
161965, Renunciation, Sep 18, 2005 05:06 PM [Iran]
161980, brennus, Sep 18, 2005 08:12 PM
161983, Renunciation, Sep 18, 2005 11:19 PM
161996, steve, Sep 19, 2005 02:57 AM
162102, orolan, Sep 20, 2005 02:06 AM
162105, Valerie, Sep 20, 2005 03:01 AM
162149, orolan, Sep 20, 2005 02:47 PM
162174, PVulcan, Sep 20, 2005 05:21 PM
162159, Navigatr1, Sep 20, 2005 03:12 PM
162184, saintjimmy, Sep 20, 2005 06:02 PM
163562, oicu812, Oct 05, 2005 04:18 AM
162119, anonymous45654, Sep 20, 2005 11:53 AM [Suggestion]
162173, Renunciation, Sep 20, 2005 05:20 PM
162257, Valerie, Sep 21, 2005 02:03 PM
162305, Renunciation, Sep 21, 2005 04:48 PM
163437, saintjimmy, Oct 04, 2005 07:49 AM
163564, oicu812, Oct 05, 2005 04:35 AM
163593, Renunciation, Oct 05, 2005 05:23 PM
163667, oicu812, Oct 06, 2005 02:29 PM
163563, oicu812, Oct 05, 2005 04:33 AM
163590, saintjimmy, Oct 05, 2005 05:05 PM
163669, oicu812, Oct 06, 2005 02:31 PM
163744, saintjimmy, Oct 07, 2005 04:54 AM
163594, Renunciation, Oct 05, 2005 05:26 PM
163628, orolan, Oct 06, 2005 12:58 AM
163634, Renunciation, Oct 06, 2005 02:13 AM
166509, orolan, Nov 05, 2005 02:34 AM
163671, oicu812, Oct 06, 2005 02:34 PM
166479, rodsmith, Nov 04, 2005 05:17 PM
166520, Renunciation, Nov 05, 2005 04:17 AM
169945, Renunciation, Dec 23, 2005 04:13 PM [Another Rescource]
171467, Renunciation, Jan 17, 2006 07:28 PM [Employment Discrimination Update]
171483, rodsmith, Jan 17, 2006 11:08 PM [renunciation]
171486, orolan, Jan 18, 2006 01:47 AM
171537, Renunciation, Jan 18, 2006 05:16 PM
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