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Forum: The Other Side
Thread (Discussion): need advice about my son - painful erections
Message 137124
how bad is it?
Posted by momwants2help
on Jul 09, 2004 07:17 AM | Also by momwants2help
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
He is 14 yo, and we just found out from a neice (5yo) that she came into a room where he was alone, he had his pants unzipped and he told her to touch his "butt". He doesn't know yet that we are aware of this. I want to do some research and make sure we are handling this in a way that will prevent it from happening again and also make him be accountable for what happened. I don't want to make things worse by making him feel like he is a freak, but I know that he has to understand that this is totally unacceptable and he could go to jail for it. He is supervised almost all the time. We do a lot of things together as a family, but he also has a few friends that we know and trust the entire family and allow him to go with them, as well as having the friend over to our house often. We have had no major behavioral problems from him and he seems happy. He does try to intimidate his younger brothers sometimes but I don't think it is to the point of being a real problem. I don't want to sweep this under the rug. We need to address it, but to what extent? Is this a warning sign that he has major problems? Could it be a lapse in judgement that comes with being 14? How do we proceed? Will he be able to overcome this without counseling, if we handle it correctly? What kind of counseling would he need? Can I depend on a counselor not to report this and end up with my child in jail? I have no clue how all this works. I deeply appreciate any input.
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Message 137152 (In Reply to Message 137124)
Posted by fallenone
on Jul 09, 2004 04:53 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
At the very least you should talk to him about the incident and explain to him what is appropriate or not. You have to use discretion of course but if needed seek a professional. They're rather hard to come by. I know someone going through the same thing. It is better to be safe than sorry but just don't overdo it. If you are already monitoring him there is little more you can do aside from the confrontation. I hope this helps some. But if he is 14 he should definately be ready to be taught his responsibility because the system doesn't play with people his age.
the Fallen One
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Message 137171 (In Reply to Message 137152)
time for a talk
Posted by poetsdreamscape
on Jul 09, 2004 07:50 PM | Also by poetsdreamscape
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
As a parent myself I would most certainly have a disccusion with him about it. First i would say that this is what you were told and want to hear his explanation for it. I would do so that he isnt intimidated by you bringing it up . Then at that point I would tell him what could happen to him if he did that and charges were filed against him. I would even go as far as explaining the sex offender status and the consequences it has. At 14 im sure he will understand it very well. Does he has a problem? Thats kind of hard to say , It is my understanding that at that age some teens are just begging to understand their sexuality , I would as a parent discuss with him things he will be dealing with as a growing young man and to ensure him of your understanding if he is in need to talk about anything.But you should be very firm in making sure he understands the consequences of his actions . To not do so would be negligent as a parent and you leave the opportunity for his and your life to be ruined if it goes unchecked.
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Message 137258 (In Reply to Message 137124)
um
Posted by assumption18
on Jul 11, 2004 02:14 AM | Also by assumption18
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: District of Columbia,
Country: United States |
sorry to post this here, but i do not know how to ask a moderator a question... being as this is moderated first i figured, this is the best way.
Why was my reply to this post removed?
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Message 137261 (In Reply to Message 137258)
Posted by steve
on Jul 11, 2004 03:22 AM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
sorry to post this here, but i do not know how to ask a moderator a question... being as this is moderated first i figured, this is the best way.
Not a problem. In the future feel free to use the site's Private Message functionality to send a private message to me (steve). In any given week I handle moderation for about 95% of the messages in the approval queue.
[quote\Why was my reply to this post removed?
There's no record of another post of yours to this thread. After a message is posted it's immediately listed in the thread view with the label "In Moderation Queue", then it either is approved or listed as "Rejected". When rejected a moderator will almost always Private Message the user to let them know why. Since there's no other post of yours in this thread recorded in the database, I can't tell you what may have happened, but on the rare occasion when others have asked similar questions we've determined it was likely that the user didn't click "Submit" to confirm the message after getting to the step where it can either be submitted or edited. Feel free to continue the discussion here if you'd like or contact me privately.
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Message 137273 (In Reply to Message 137258)
I didn't ever see a post either
Posted by momwants2help
on Jul 11, 2004 06:03 AM | Also by momwants2help
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
And I have been checking to see the replies. I would be very interested to hear what you have to say. We (his dad and I) are having the talk tommorrow afternoon. But I know that there is a long process ahead of us and I do appreciate all the replies so far.
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Message 137287 (In Reply to Message 137273)
Okay this is what i said
Posted by assumption18
on Jul 11, 2004 11:40 PM | Also by assumption18
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: District of Columbia,
Country: United States |
or thereabouts as I do not keep a record of everything I write (heh im not very organised lol).
Firstly you said the girl entered the room when he already had his pants down? Perhaps he was masturbating already, I know its not a topic parents ever like to discuss, but if he was, no doubt he was very tempted to ask her to touch him.
If not, secondly, he is 14. Many 14yo boys would use whatever objects they could if it meant they could get sexual satisfaction. No offence, but at times they can be incredibly sexually motivated. She was there at the wrong time, he could have done a lot worse than he did.
Please do talk to him about the real and present threat of things like this being punished however, as the law will not take my above statements as an excuse. And it no doubt has left the 5yo with a few questions.
All I say is, do not worry about him it seems like a situation MANY MANY 14yo boys could be in.
Make sure he is aware of the consequences of his actions if caught in future, make him VERY aware.
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Message 137290 (In Reply to Message 137287)
Posted by steve
on Jul 12, 2004 12:40 AM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Firstly you said the girl entered the room when he already had his pants down? Perhaps he was masturbating already, I know its not a topic parents ever like to discuss, but if he was, no doubt he was very tempted to ask her to touch him.
No doubt, eh? You make it sound as though that would be an expected response when a 14 year old is masturbating and a 5 year old catches him in the act. I can't speak for all 14 year old boys, but I think you'll find it's more likely that the typical 14 year old boy would stop masturbating, cover himself up and ask the other person to leave. When the other person is a 5 year old and a relative I think that's even more likely.
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Message 137297 (In Reply to Message 137290)
Perhaps not "no doubt" then
Posted by assumption18
on Jul 12, 2004 01:18 AM | Also by assumption18
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: District of Columbia,
Country: United States |
I'm just saying it would be a point to definately raise.
Not one to lose sleep over.
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Message 137299 (In Reply to Message 137290)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 12, 2004 01:30 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
No doubt, eh? You make it sound as though that would be an expected response when a 14 year old is masturbating and a 5 year old catches him in the act.
My take on this was it's expected from a pedophile since that is the perspective assumption is coming from. I don't know if we can assume the 14 year old in this case is a pedophile.
If he was masterbating already and the child walked in, and he did not respond by covering himself up or some other normal response which would suggest he was startled, then the assumption is it was planned.
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Message 137328 (In Reply to Message 137273)
You sound overwhelmed..
Posted by jiGGaMe
on Jul 13, 2004 03:59 AM | Also by jiGGaMe
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Hawaii,
Country: United States |
You posted this message last week Friday. Has he exhibited the same type of inappropriate behavior since and or before this?
While reading what you shared regarding your son, it didn't come as any surprise to me. Adolescence now days are exposed to so many things at home and or in their environment. We like to believe that they all know the difference between right and wrong no matter what provoked him or her to behave the way they do. But keeping in mind, too, that being adolescence is one of the stages we have all gone through in life. Some of us fared better than others.
By no means, should his actions be kept quiet. It should be discussed with him. Who does he have a closer relationship with: you or his father? My point is if he feels that he can relate better to one of you more, than whoever he feels closer to should be the one to discuss it with him first: just another direction to take.
Sure, both parents should be involved but reality isn't like that. This isn't the Brady Bunch or the Huxtables.
You mentioned the word (freak) that caught my attention. It's how you approach him and your own behaviors that can very well make him feel like a freak, and that is the last thing you and your husband want to do. And it may very well be an isolated incident too but it must be dealt with.
Depending in what state you live there are hotlines that you can contact and ask for advice. And in case you plan to get outside help
family therapist and or counseling I assure you that everything will be kept confidential. Also, if you decide to do therapy "family therapy" is better. This way you can all be involved in the process. Contact the nearest social agency/and or the non-profit organizations: you'd be surprise at the referrals you'll get/and some are free.
Last but not least, I'm sure you're hoping that you’re just overreacting. Well, maybe, maybe not, but at least you're reacting. Denial is such a waste of time. Don't focus on blaming yourself, you're not clairvoyant. One step at a time.
Good Luck.
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Message 137340 (In Reply to Message 137273)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jul 13, 2004 10:37 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Have you discussed this with the girl’s parents? If not you should, if only to head off any hysteria. Let them know you think the behavior was totally inappropriate and you are dealing with it and will have your son get counseling if it is necessary. I have a 14 yr old son so I can relate to the overactive hormones. In one sense I don't think you should overreact to this incident. He is still a kid, and probably a very confused one. On the other hand it has to be made clear to him that his actions are completely inappropriate. Have you noticed any other impulse control problems? If not, this may be just a one-time incident that is best dealt with firmly and then put behind him. To have to talk to his parents (and perhaps have to apologize to HER parents) about the incident may be all the punishment and mortification required to keep him from ever repeating it. If he does have impulse control problems then he may need additional counseling, and of course, if he confesses a deep-seated attraction to little girls, then he really does need help. I think that it’s a good bet however that he was simply horny, not sure what to do with it because it’s a fairly recent phenomena and an opportunity to explore presented itself.
We have this schizoid culture. Kids are bombarded and targeted with sexual messages but they are not given the tools to deal with their sexual and emotional reactions. We expect them to be assexual innocents and tend to not think about the messages and emotions they are struggling with. Sometimes I think as a society, and as parents, we have tended to abdicate our responsibility to teach our children responsible behavior because quite frankly we are confused and are not sure what is appropriate any more. Morality is all relative now, it seems. So we just tend to avoid the topic.
I will give you an example. My 14 yr old son has recently acquired a girlfriend, who belongs to the same band as he does. She is a few months younger than him. This came earlier than I expected. It was only a year ago that he thought girls were dumb and was running away from them. I have only had the most basic "birds and bees" discussion with him but he has been watching "Friends" and Seinfeld since he was 8. I guess I have been remiss because I have not really known what to say to him about dating, relationships, sexuality, etc.
This weekend past I took him and his girlfriend to an event involving the band and we camped. I was keeping a fairly close eye on things. I had, after all, been entrusted with the safety of a 13 yr old girl. What amazed me was their apparent lack of embarassment (at least on the girlfriend's part) in their displays of physical affection - in front of me, MOM. I didn't even hold hands with my boyfriend in front of my parents, let alone smooch and stroke him. I felt like saying, "Get a room, guys." but of course I didn't want that either. Finally I said, "Look, you guys - hand-holding is OK, maybe an arm around a shoulder but I do NOT want to have to see this full body contact." My son blushed to the tips of his hair and quickly apologized. The girlfriend looked a touch put out but she too complied with my request. I actually think my son was relieved because I think the level of intimacy was too quick and too much for him.
Obviously this is not the same as sexually touching a 5 yr old girl. However his behavior still went beyond what I considered appropriate and once we got home I had the first of what will be a series of discussions on responsibility in relationships, sexual and otherwise. My son begged for mercy but I am continuing doggedly on, and even though he acts as if he doesn't need to know any of this stuff he is listening, and, I think, grateful. Our kids don't know what's appropriate or not, unless we tell them. We can’t just assume that “they would never do that” because they know it’s wrong. They certainly aren't going to find out by watching TV or talking to their friends.
I will sound one note of caution. When my son was 4 and we were visiting a friend he came out of where the kids had been playing and announced that the 9 yr old girl had pulled down his pants and was looking at his dinky and touched it. Her mother was mortified, apologized and spoke to her daughter in a very exasperated way. I laughed it off, attributing it to normal childish exploration in a girl who had no brothers. A few years later when she was 11 the girl approached various other girls, including my daughter, and asked them if they would “have sex with her”. Parents remained blissfully ignorant. The girls all kept this to themselves but discussed it among themselves and probably other friends. The mother could not understand why her daughter suddenly became so unpopular. These stories finally came out 7 years later when her father was arrested for molesting my daughter. Moral: sometimes these incidents mean nothing and other times we should have paid more attention.
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Message 137360 (In Reply to Message 137124)
Thank you to all who posted replies....update.....
Posted by momwants2help
on Jul 14, 2004 08:54 AM | Also by momwants2help
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
We had my husband's parents stay with our other kids and took our 14 yo son for ice cream. He started crying before we ever got out of the driveway. We didn't start discussing it though, until we got to the park, where we could sit face to face. I started by telling him what the girl had told me. He didn't deny anything. I explained that it is better that we (his parents) know about it even though it is embarrassing to talk about, because we can help him work through it and make sure it doesn't ever happen again. His story was, he had an erection, didn't know why but it was sort of random, it hurt and that is why he had his pants unzipped. His underwear was on and she didn't touch him. He says he did not tell her to touch his butt or anything else. (I have not concluded that he didn't, just repeating what he said to us) He says he didn't think about her, or how it would affect her at the time, but afterwards he did. He said that he had prayed and prayed and prayed, asking God to forgive him and to keep him from doing that again. (He is a Christian, and I have seen spiritual growth from him since he was baptized two years ago. This isn't just a quick conversion scheme to pacify his parents.) As far as the comment about it being planned for her to come into the room where he was, no that was not the case. I had brought her with me and he didn't know she was coming until we got there. We talked about the fact that we should discuss this with my brother and his wife. He is worried that they will call Family Services and he will get taken away from us. I told him that I think it is the best way, just to get it out, be honest and not have to have the worry or the secrets, but I couldn't promise that they won't call family services. So we are going to talk about it again in a few days. Our son showed remorse and cried off and on the whole time. I asked if he was upset because we knew and he said he was glad. We talked about it being illegal, that he could go to jail. We talked about why it isn't right to expose girls that young to sexual situations. He indicated that he doesn't think of girls that age sexually, but that when it happened he wasn't thinking at all. We told him that we, as teenagers, did stupid things, things that were wrong. But the important thing is to make sure you don't repeat the mistakes. We talked about how Satan plays chess with us, and when he finds a move that we fall for, he will use it over and over again. So our son will have to guard his heart, and have a plan in place for the times in the future when temptation comes, or thoughts enter his head, he will need to use whatever works to keep it from happening.he said he wanted to avoid being alone with a girl because he would never do that if there were other people around. He understands that there are things he won't be able to do now, like stay at his Grandma's for a week. He thought of that on his own, said, well now I can't go to Grandma's, but said that he hoped his younger brother could still go. His father and I told him that we feel like we have failed to make it safe for him to talk to us about important things like this, and that we are sorry about that. He and his Dad are going to have "book time" twice a week, where they read through a book named "Preparing Your Son for Every Man's Battle-Honest Conversations About Sexual Integrety". Our son was positive about this too. We also told him that if we feel like, at any time, that he isn't being honest with us or that he is showing any signs of having problems again, we will all go to counseling. I just don't want to make him afraid of ever touching a girl (his own age). I read through the profiles in the site and I really don't think that many of the charasteristics there match him. He has friends, he isn't a loner. Although he did tell us that he thinks about sexual things more when he is alone. He had been involved in sports since 2nd grade, up until this summer. We didn't sign him up this summer, because we wanted to take come camping trips and do some family things during the summer. But we will get him back into some activities right away. He has asked to sleep in the living room for the last two nights, since we had the talk. We let him and his two younger brothers blow up the air mattresses and "camp out" in the living room. And he asked me to read to them until they went to sleep, which I did. This is something we do quite a bit, during the school year, but not something he usually asks me to do. tHe doesn't dress inappropriately, is modest about being seen not being seen in underwear around the house, etc. He isn't particularly great at hygene or manners. He isn't particularly bad at them either, but definitely doesn't excell. Although I am not familiar with the grooming subject other than what I have read on this site in the last week, it doesn't seem to match either. I think it was much more an impulse than something with forethought. . His father and I are both reading the replies, even though I am the one answering. We both know there is a long road ahead of us. I do thank you all for offering advice.
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Message 137381 (In Reply to Message 137340)
deadmomwalking
Posted by myoung
on Jul 15, 2004 01:26 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
You are so right. I have two teens myself and I agree....they think it's no big deal about everything these days. My daughter shocked the living crap out of me by lying on the couch on top of her boyfriend while I was there. She was 15 at the time and saw it as no big deal. I coulda knocked her right out!! That was so disrespectful but when I discussed it with them....no, I didn't hold back....I embarassed them right there and then.....they acted like I was over reacting! If I had done that in my youth, in my parents home, they would have just about killed me and I would have been grounded. It amazes me how the culture of our youth has changed so drastically over the past 20 years. They are very liberal in their public displays and it really pisses me off. I don't make public displays of affection for my husband because it is offensive to others and it should be reserved for our own privacy anyway. I give him a quick kiss but that's it. None of this hanging all over each other etc. Kids don't seem to have much respect for themselves or the sanctity of anything that has to do with relationships. It is very sad. I often tell my daughter that she leaves nothing to feel special about when everything is right out there in the open like that. Sometimes sneaking a quiet moment is more interesting and exciting. I fear they won't ever experience those feelings by just being so blatant with their sexual behaviors.
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Message 137545 (In Reply to Message 137287)
Disagree
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jul 18, 2004 03:49 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
"Firstly you said the girl entered the room when he already had his pants down? Perhaps he was masturbating already, I know its not a topic parents ever like to discuss, but if he was, no doubt he was very tempted to ask her to touch him. "
Even if he was about 99.9% of the people i know would quick pull up thier pants and be embarrased. Instead he asked her to touch him? Well thats a problem even if your scenario is right. What could POSSIBLY motivate him to ask a five year old to do that?
Silverthorne
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Message 137546 (In Reply to Message 137360)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jul 18, 2004 03:51 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
Well it sounds like you had a good talk although is "painful erection" story is a bit strange I must admit. Let us know how the talk with her parents goes.
Silverthorne
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Message 137679 (In Reply to Message 137360)
Posted by poetsdreamscape
on Jul 21, 2004 06:55 AM | Also by poetsdreamscape
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
We had my husband's parents stay with our other kids and took our 14 yo son for ice cream. He started crying before we ever got out of the driveway.
Can you tell us why he started to cry before you even mentioned anything to him ?
I started by telling him what the girl had told me. He didn't deny anything.
Im glad that he didnt deny it , That in itself shows that he has enough respect for you as parents and that there is a degree of communication which is very important in a childs life .
His story was, he had an erection, didn't know why but it was sort of random,
While it is possible that an erection can occur without any thought , I am curious if he has a computer and views porn that may have led to him actually undressing himself . I would also like for you to ask him if it hurts whenever he has an erection and if it does hurt all the time I would take him to see a physician.
His underwear was on and she didn't touch him. He says he did not tell her to touch his butt or anything else. (I have not concluded that he didn't, just repeating what he said to us)
I think that he may have mislead you . It is very unlikley a 5yo would have thought of making such an acusation. Im not sure if he was naked by what you have told us or just in his breifs.But if the 5yo says he was naked I would have to go with that assumption. 5yo I dont believe have that much of an imagination,
He says he didn't think about her, or how it would affect her at the time, but afterwards he did.
Most offenders think about it after the fact when its to late
He said that he had prayed and prayed and prayed, asking God to forgive him and to keep him from doing that again. (He is a Christian, and I have seen spiritual growth from him since he was baptized two years ago. This isn't just a quick conversion scheme to pacify his parents.)
Is this an admition of guilt ?
We talked about the fact that we should discuss this with my brother and his wife. He is worried that they will call Family Services and he will get taken away from us. I told him that I think it is the best way,
While I hope that they wouldnt do such and I would ask your brother not to so. Nothing good can come from that what so ever . But I would expect your son to be honest with them and give an apology and ask your brother to be certain that they arent left alone when visiting so that no more accusations can be told .
I have to applaud both you and your husband on the way you handled it . While this is an embarrasing moment for your family it is none the less very important that you instill in him the facts that you have . I hope that all of this works out ok with your brother and his wife and that your son is truely remorseful . After this is all over with please tell him that you still love him and forgive him of his past mistakes and will always be there for him to discuss whatever it is. Please do not make jokes of this in passing as you dont want to lay a guilt trip on him that can be devastating to his mental well being . As I have written earlier on that at 14 there are hormones raging and experimentation that will occur . I hope that you will discuss with him dating and sexual contacts with others his age and about the use of protection or abstenence
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Message 137781 (In Reply to Message 137679)
in response to some of your questions
Posted by momwants2help
on Jul 23, 2004 08:18 AM | Also by momwants2help
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
First let me thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts. I hope my post isn't too graphic, and if it is I apologize.
Can you tell us why he started to cry before you even mentioned anything to him ?
Well, my guess is that he was feeling guilty and afraid he would be in trouble. Do you think there would be another reason for him to cry?
While it is possible that an erection can occur without any thought , I am curious if he has a computer and views porn that may have led to him actually undressing himself . I would also like for you to ask him if it hurts whenever he has an erection and if it does hurt all the time I would take him to see a physician.
I have a computer, but he doesn't go online without one of us in the room. It is in the living room. There is no and I mean no porn in our house, and that includes in his room, that I am sure of. My husband works days and I work part-time evenings, so there would be little chance for him to get on the computer without us knowing it. I also keep a close eye on the history and temporary internet files, though, just in case. I did find one time after a friend had been here, and they were supposed to be playing a game online where they had typed porno and playboy in a search engine. His dad and I were both in the house that day, but not right in the room the whole time. So there could have been some viewing, but from what I could tell of the history, they didn't actually go to any porn sites. After that we decided not to let him get online unless we could be in the room with him. I didn't ever mention to him that I knew he had done the searches because I wanted to see if there was any more of that kind of stuff going on. And it hasn't. That was probably 6-8 months ago. So I guess my answer would have to be I don't think so but I cannot be sure.
As far as the other part, I may not have explained that part of the conversation well enough. I asked him if he was thinking about sexual things or playing with himself when she came into the room. (trying to understand why his pants were unzipped). He at first didn't seem to understand what I meant by 'playing with yourself" and his dad explained, 'rubbing it'. He said no but it was hard. I said why. He said I don't know, but it hurt, so I unzipped my pants. Not being a man, I can't say, and my husband didn't seem to think that to be a made up story, I assumed that if it was hard and your pants were tight, it probably would hurt from pressure. Am I way off here? As far as him not knowing why, I am assuming that he didn't want to share with his mom whatever he was thinking about that made it that way. I will mention it to him again and find out if he is having pain that would be something to check into.
It is very unlikley a 5yo would have thought of making such an acusation. Im not sure if he was naked by what you have told us or just in his breifs.But if the 5yo says he was naked I would have to go with that assumption. 5yo I dont believe have that much of an imagination,
The five year old said that his pants were unzipped and unbuttoned. Not that they were pulled down or that she actually saw his privates. This is also what he told us. The part that is most concerning to me is that she said something to the effect of "he wanted me to touch his butt". I cannot remember her exact words, as I was pretty shocked. One thought is that she doesn't know the word for his penis so she used butt. It was not clear whether he asked her to do this, or took her hand, or what. She did not say that she touched him, just that he wanted her to.Could she have assumed that was what he wanted? But if she simply walked in at the wrong time, I feel there was still something more that happened or he would not have been feeling so guilty. Although, he is our oldest son, and does have a tendency to be more hard on himself than he should. My husband was beginning to drill our son pretty hard about the details, and I asked him to stop because I did not want to lose the lines of communication at the time. This is not something that can be solved in one discussion.
He said that he had prayed and prayed and prayed, asking God to forgive him and to keep him from doing that again. (He is a Christian, and I have seen spiritual growth from him since he was baptized two years ago. This isn't just a quick conversion scheme to pacify his parents.)
Is this an admition of guilt ?
well as i said, he didn't deny that there had been inappropriate actions on his part. I may have sounded a little defensive in anticipation of being criticized for mentioning his faith. I read on the list of perpertrators traits that they "get religion" I believe that once we become Believers, we have the Holy Spirit within us, but we also still have our sinful nature. They are at odds with one another, and it is our free will to choose which one to follow. Therefore that fact that he has done this does not mean that he cannot be a Christian.
While I hope that they wouldnt do such and I would ask your brother not to so. Nothing good can come from that what so ever . But I would expect your son to be honest with them and give an apology and ask your brother to be certain that they arent left alone when visiting so that no more accusations can be told .
I live a few hours away from them, so we don't get to see them too often. We will be planning a visit there soon to have this discussion with them. I am praying that he will come to us on his own and volunteer to tell them. That would be the best thing that could happen. But if he doesn't we will tell him he has to, and if he refuses, we will tell them without him. But I really think he will do it. For the most part, he is a boy of character. One thing I would like advice on, do you think we should have the 5yo in the room for the whole discussion, or bring her in at a certain point? I am not sure how my brother will react, he is easy going most of the time and we have a close relationship, on the other hand he adores his daughter. I wondered if he gets angry, and she is there, whether it would make a deeper impression on her and cause more harm. Also whether we should talk to her about the "specifics" of just have my son tell her he is sorry, and it was completely his fault and it won't happen again.
I have to applaud both you and your husband on the way you handled it . While this is an embarrasing moment for your family it is none the less very important that you instill in him the facts that you have . I hope that all of this works out ok with your brother and his wife and that your son is truely remorseful . After this is all over with please tell him that you still love him and forgive him of his past mistakes and will always be there for him to discuss whatever it is. Please do not make jokes of this in passing as you dont want to lay a guilt trip on him that can be devastating to his mental well being . As I have written earlier on that at 14 there are hormones raging and experimentation that will occur . I hope that you will discuss with him dating and sexual contacts with others his age and about the use of protection or abstenence
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. We can all look back on our lives and see moments we wish we could erase. I do tell him I love him every day, and his father does too. His dad has started the "book time" that I talked about in a previous post, where they get alone and read through a book titled "Preparing Your Son for Every Man's Battle-Honest Conversations About Sexual Integrety" It is written in such a way that the father and son read it together and discuss each chapter. Our son has been very positive about this, very willing to do it.
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Message 137782 (In Reply to Message 137299)
Posted by momwants2help
on Jul 23, 2004 08:31 AM | Also by momwants2help
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
If he was masterbating already and the child walked in, and he did not respond by covering himself up or some other normal response which would suggest he was startled, then the assumption is it was planned.
As I stated in a previous post, but you may have missed, he did not know that the 5yo would be visiting, nor did he know she would be coming into his room when she did. You assume too much in this case. There is no way that it was planned.
I also need to clarify that she said his pants were unzipped and unbuttoned, not that she saw any of his privates. She said something close to "he wanted me to touch his butt" I asked her if she did and she said no. It was not clear to me if he told her to touch him, or what made her think he wanted her to touch his butt. Perhaps he turned away from her. It doesn't always have to be a worse-case scenario.
I would be happy to hear advice that is actually relavent, but this is an assumption made that he planned it, based on another person's assumption that he was masturbating. Please lets not convict him without a trial.
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Message 137783 (In Reply to Message 137340)
thank you for your thoughts
Posted by momwants2help
on Jul 23, 2004 08:48 AM | Also by momwants2help
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
we are going to talk with her parents, although they live a couple of hours away, so it will have to be planned in the near future. I appreciate a parent's perspective, and it means more to me coming from someone who has been on the "other side" I am so sorry for the things your daughter hase been through. Was that man charged with molesting his own daugher as well?
I agree that it is so hard in today's culture to shield our children from becoming sexualized at a younger age than they can really understand or handle it. A lot of people in my family think I am too strict about the movies and telivision shows I will permit my kids to watch, but I just can't abide the filty jokes and language that seem to be mandatory in any movie made for teens. Thank goodness my boys like Andy Griffith and Beverly Hillbillies! I think keeping lines of communication open is so important. If we don't know what they are going through, we can't guide them. So we parents are on the hooks for living up to our word when we say they can tell us anything. From my experience with this so far, it seemed that my son was relieved that we were taking action and that it was all out in the open. At the same time, we have to make sure we know when to discipline, how much to discipline, and when to let the life's lesson be discipline enough. I thank God forthestrength and wisdom He gives me because without him, I would never make it through this.
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Message 137841 (In Reply to Message 137781)
no
Posted by poetsdreamscape
on Jul 23, 2004 10:08 PM | Also by poetsdreamscape
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
do you think we should have the 5yo in the room for the whole discussion, or bring her in at a certain point?
I don't think it would be healthy for the child to be there , It is possible that by being there she may become frightened if an argument erupts if your brother becomes upset .I am not sure of how your son and your brother get along but I think it would be best for your son to tell him about it in a way that would make him feel comfortable . Im sure he wil be embarrased to have to tell him but at least your brother will know that he took responsibilty for it and was upfront about it and know that what he did was wrong .Im sure your brother would appreciate it more if he is confronted by your son rather then yourself .If you feel that is not the best soloution then you have an obligation to tell your brother what happened and hope that he understands and is able to forgive your son . You should also explain to him that you have talked to your son in great detail about this incident and he knows the consequences for such action and the steps he wil take to prevent this from happening again. Godd luck and I'd like to know how your brother and his wife handled it.
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Message 137844 (In Reply to Message 137783)
momw2h
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jul 23, 2004 10:55 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Hi,
You guys sound like you are handling this very responsibly. Your son is lucky. I wouldn't let too much time pass before talking to your brother. The more time passes the harder and worse it gets. In addition, if your niece talks to her parents about this, tells them she told you and you "appear" to have ignored it, they will go ballistic. I wouldn't hold a press conference - I would just quietly talk to your brother or his wife. You could tell them you were waiting to sort things out with your son before approaching them - which is true enough.
I think it is good that you have a base (Christian) from which to develop moral rules. I am a recent Christian as well - although probably a much more abstract sort than you are. In a recent talk with my minister I confessed that, although I was praying and reading and meditating I was having a lot of trouble getting my head around some Christian beliefs, including whether I actually believed in God. She quoted Marcus Borg "And who is this God you don't believe in? What does he look like?" and also said "God doesn't care what you believe. He only requires your presence." I can't tell you what a burden that lifted for me. I now feel as if I can pray and read the psalms aloud in good conscience. It has provided me with a lot of comfort and helped me to not focus on vengeful thoughts about my daughter's abuser.
And how did I get onto that? Oh, yes. This is my own opinion and I will confess outright that I am a Canadian, left-leaning liberal so you know where I am coming from. I wouldn't concentrate too much on the "sex is evil" thing. Sexual feelings and pleasure are a gift from our Creator. It is normal and healthy to have sexual feelings. It is up to us to use them responsibly. If he concentrates too much on avoiding sexual feelings or trying to overcome them, he might start to feel as if he really is a "bad" person when he is just a normal (and often sexually aroused, because that is the nature of the beast) 14 yr old boy. A nurse who conducted a sex ed class for the kids at our elementary school was talking about erections and wet dream etc and she explained that the boy's bodies were just practising, doing "push ups" for the future when they were ready to be Daddies. If he gets hung up (pardon the pun) on thinking that sexual thoughts are bad or his erections are a sign that he is a bad person he is more likely to be secretive about it and turn to inappropriate ways of dealing with it.
Re: my daughter's abuser. Although he was arrested and charged here in Canada and there is a case file on him in the US (some of the assaults took place across the line where both families have cottages) nothing is proceeding at this time because my daughter is too ill. Re: his daughter. Because she was 18 and therefore legally an adult when these charges came to light the police did not approach her. It is up to her to file charges. I do not even know whether she was, in fact, abused, or whether her sexualized behavior as a child was just coincidental (or perhaps that entire family is just over-sexed!)
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Message 137857 (In Reply to Message 137546)
painful erections
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jul 24, 2004 08:33 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
You mean all this time you guys have been lying to us? You know the story: "Ooh, it hurts so much. Couldn't you just rub it for me?" Are you now telling me guys DON'T get painful erections? Well, buddy, I am spreading the word.(LOL)
seriously though, momw2h,
Is your son circumcised? If not, do you know if his foreskin will retract all the way? My son's foreskin never retracted properly - when he was a baby, the doctors kept saying don't worry about it, by the time he's 3 or 4 he'll be playing with it so much it will take care of things, but he never did and it never was. When he was 11 he had to be circumcised because the doc finally decided that the foreskin never was going to retract and this would make for very painful erections. It wasn't a pleasant experience for him at the time but at least it's taken care of. Adolescence is painful enough without worrying about that.
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Thread
137124, momwants2help, Jul 09, 2004 07:17 AM [how bad is it?]
137152, fallenone, Jul 09, 2004 04:53 PM
137171, poetsdreamscape, Jul 09, 2004 07:50 PM [time for a talk]
137258, assumption18, Jul 11, 2004 02:14 AM [um]
137261, steve, Jul 11, 2004 03:22 AM
137273, momwants2help, Jul 11, 2004 06:03 AM [I didn't ever see a post either]
137287, assumption18, Jul 11, 2004 11:40 PM [Okay this is what i said]
137290, steve, Jul 12, 2004 12:40 AM
137297, assumption18, Jul 12, 2004 01:18 AM [Perhaps not "no doubt" then]
137299, dp1, Jul 12, 2004 01:30 AM
137782, momwants2help, Jul 23, 2004 08:31 AM
137545, Silverthorne, Jul 18, 2004 03:49 AM [Disagree]
137328, jiGGaMe, Jul 13, 2004 03:59 AM [You sound overwhelmed..]
137340, deadmomwalking, Jul 13, 2004 10:37 PM
137381, myoung, Jul 15, 2004 01:26 AM [deadmomwalking]
137783, momwants2help, Jul 23, 2004 08:48 AM [thank you for your thoughts]
137844, deadmomwalking, Jul 23, 2004 10:55 PM [momw2h]
137360, momwants2help, Jul 14, 2004 08:54 AM [Thank you to all who posted replies....u...]
137546, Silverthorne, Jul 18, 2004 03:51 AM
137857, deadmomwalking, Jul 24, 2004 08:33 AM [painful erections]
137679, poetsdreamscape, Jul 21, 2004 06:55 AM
137781, momwants2help, Jul 23, 2004 08:18 AM [in response to some of your questions]
137841, poetsdreamscape, Jul 23, 2004 10:08 PM [no]
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