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Forum: The Other Side
Thread (Discussion): Struggling - reforming the system stating with one
Message 136445
Its really hard
Posted by JakeLF
on Jun 23, 2004 06:40 AM | Also by JakeLF
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I have been struggling big time for the last year or so, I am so tempted to go back into the old ways that I used to be. I miss the sexual contact that I had with children, I really felt like they adored me and when we were close I felt complete. My relationships suck, I have no friends anymore because of me being a child sex offender, I am alone all the time to dwell on my past and the life that I had before getting caught. I don't relate to adults at all and my mentality is the same as children. I am so close to going back into the world that I served so long for comitting, maybe I just miss prison.
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Message 136466 (In Reply to Message 136445)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jun 23, 2004 07:29 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Jake:
I read your apology in the victim's corner and I was impressed that you had expressed remorse for your actions, which is more than some do. Are you in counselling? If not, hie thee forth to someone as soon as possible before you do something that destroys another life, as well as your own. If you can't afford to see a therapist, there are some clergy who could help (hoping not one that has been abusing kids). Your illness is in many ways a spiritual one and may require a spiritual "cure" to complement whatever other counselling you receive.
I miss the sexual contact that I had with children, I really felt like they adored me and when we were close I felt complete.
You may "feel" adored by the children you molest but, as my daughter's various therapists are so fond of pointing out, feelings are not facts. My daughter's rapist no doubt felt "adored" by her (and he was well-liked by her before the abuse began) but he soon became a monster in her mind. He probably also told himself the sex was consensual because she didn't offer much resistance. This was another dangerous thinking error. Children are not adults; they do not have the necessary experience or reasoning skills to see the direction an encounter is taking and take steps to protect themselves. You are wrong that your mentality is the same as children - you are thinking about sex when you are with them; they are not. Do you have violent thoughts about kids? Probably not. You probably can't imagine someone torturing or injuring children. How horrible. Yet acting out sexually with kids, even if you think you are doing it in a loving way IS violent and causes just as much damage in the long term (sometimes more) than physical violence. Is this the sort of person you want to be? A child destroyer? I don't think so or you wouldn't be here asking for help.
You have admitted doing a terrible thing. That doesn't mean you are a terrible person - if you were you wouldn't be here trying to avoid temptation and change. We all do things in our lives that we are ashamed of and desperately wish we hadn't done. Guilt and shame are good things if they keep us from repeating our mistakes. They are spiritual pain and function in the same way as physical pain - they remind us that our souls are in danger. However you mustn't allow that pain to so overtake you so that you return to old behaviors. Focus on what it is you need to heal, because I believe perpetrators need to heal from their actions just as their victims do. What is causing you grief right now?
-Guilt? You have already confessed and shown remorse. That is a huge step. Think about ways you could provide restitution, if not to your victim then to others. Even your post in the Victim's Corner was a small positive step. Often, for victims, to hear another offender just say, "I was wrong in what I did and I am so sorry," is healing. It is so much better than listening to minimizations, denial and victim blaming.
That being said I wouldn't go there too much if you are close to the breaking point. Victims are dealing with their own pain which doesn't make them the most objective people in the world either. The Victim's corner is a place for them to vent and their pain may be a bit much for you to handle if you are already feeling really low. As much as I appreciate your gesture, and what I presume is your attempt to avoid offending again by gaining empathy for the victim, it is much more important to me that you DO NOT REOFFEND than that you are overcome with guilt. If depression is something that drives you to temptation, avoid things that make you more depressed.
Loneliness:
My relationships suck, I have no friends anymore because of me being a child sex offender, I am alone all the time to dwell on my past and the life that I had before getting caught.
There is nothing that sends me spiralling down into depression faster than thinking about the life we had before my daughter was molested. We were a happy, loving family. Now we are also lonely and often isolated by our grief and my daughter's illness. When I feel like this I also have dark fantasies, but mine are about hurting her molester. Sometimes these fantasies are sort of general, but sometimes they get quite specific and tempting. It doesn't help that there are a lot of people who think that we (her family) should have done more to punish him and have offered to help. A friend who is a policeman said: "I don't know how B (my husband) can restrain himself from killing him. D (the perp) is lucky it wasn't my daughter because I have a big gun." Sometimes I need to avoid people who encourage my darker thoughts. Do I really want to be that person, to become a destroyer, to give up the moral beliefs I had before this happened? Would it help my daughter? No. At these times I focus on positive things in my life and if I can't do that I read inspirational things ALOUD. It is hard for me to take pleasure in things I used to enjoy - but I try.
Don't allow the past to interfere with the now. I have a list of positive statements in a drawer by my bed. One is "I will not wait to have a good day. I will make one." When I am struggling I say that to myself several times when I get up in the morning. You probably think I'm a loon, what with all this prayer and meditation and talking to myself. I would have thought the same thing a year ago, but it does help. To focus on the positive: positive readings, positive talk, positive actions lead to positive thoughts and positive feelings. Just as negative reading, viewing (child porn), talk and actions lead to negative thoughts and feelings.
You do need to develop other adult friendships. Avoid friendships with other pedophiles unless they are "recovered" and other friendships that might encourage you to reoffend. Avoid chatrooms for pedophiles and porn sites. When my daughter was trying to stop her self-injury she went to support sites for self-injurers. Although most of the people there wanted to stop she found the discussions very triggering and it just made her want to cut more. Have you tried organizations like SOHopeful? There are some churches that run programs for ex-offenders. Someone here (maybe KK?) made a good point on a previous thread - that he has found many people to be surprisingly forgiving as long as he is honest with them. This probably won't be the case with former friends as they will feel betrayed but with new friends, as long as you are honest with them from the beginning you may find they are supportive. People without children are more likely to be willing to give you a chance. Some offenders have been "adopted" into church communities. There are other community groups and volunteer organizations that might give you a chance as long as you aren't around children and are honest.
A teacher that I worked with was convicted of about 20 counts of molesting young boys. His was a terrible betrayal of trust and destroyed many lives. He was a man that I liked and trusted and I wasn't able to be friends with him once I had found out what he did. However, he did have a couple of friends who stuck by him. Once he had served his time (only 18 mos. amazingly, but this is Canada) he went to a different community. He would have been dead if he had returned to the community where he had offended. There a friend ran interference for him. This man (the offender) enjoyed choirs and his friend talked to members of a church choir, explaining the perp's history, and asked them to give him a chance. The choir members did and the perp made some new friends (it took awhile for him to prove himself) and took on a lot of volunteer work (not involving children). As far as I know he has not reoffended and he seems relatively happy.
If you are truly a pedophile (that is you "love" children beyond just your sexual urges) then you should remember that sexual acts perpetrated on children are the acts of child "haters". Find some positive things that can express your love for children without being around them. Maybe the most loving thing you can do is avoid children like the plague.
Fear: I am so close to going back into the world that I served so long for comitting, maybe I just miss prison.
This statement tells me that you are afraid that you will fail - that you will not make it. That you are afraid that you will not conquer your demons. Again, I must urge you to act on your honourable motivations. Talk to someone about you feelings. Come back here if you need to. Concentrate on your strengths. One of them is a willingness to admit when you are struggling and to be honest about it. That is a very good thing and can save you.
I am not suggesting for a minute that things are that easy, that doing the right thing and sticking to the straight and narrow will not be tremendously difficult. It will. But isn't it worth it? To live the rest of your life as a worthwhile person and not a worm. You cannot change the past. You cannot relive it. Make a commitment each day to do the right thing.
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Message 136477 (In Reply to Message 136466)
it saddens me
Posted by myoung
on Jun 24, 2004 01:36 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
You express yourself in a way that allows someone to feel your pain and I think that is a very positive thing. I hope that you regain control fo your feelings before you do something you will regret. Have you gone to any groups with other SO's and discussed your feelings (you are not the only one with these feelings by any stretch of your imagination)? Have you taken a real hard look at why you feel that your mentality is that of a child and that you cannot form lasting and substantial relationships with adults (because you write like a reasonably intelligent adult IMO)? Do you have a preference for adults (male/female)? I just hope you aren't trying to fit yourself into some societal mold because you are afraid to express your real feelings and now you want to slide back to something that was just an easier relationship (I am not talking about the aftermath of when you get caught being an easy thing to decide on. I am speaking to the ease of forming a relationship with a child). I have a lot of gay friend, for instance, who could not come out for a long time. In the time they were "in the closet", they did very self destructive things as a way of coping with all the deceiving they had to do on a daily basis. It was sad and you sound like you have to do the same thing. Eventually it will take you to a place you should not go. Stay with us. I am not SO but I am a human being who gives a crap so chin up and speak up. Our ears are open and we ARE hearing you loud and clear.
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Message 136508 (In Reply to Message 136445)
Posted by dp1
on Jun 24, 2004 01:31 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Jake,
Your feelings are very normal for a pedophile. The problem is you are not in therapy right now. Go back! There is nothing else to discuss. Your life and a child's life is too important. CALL YOUR THERAPIST TODAY before you relapse.
DP1
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Message 136528 (In Reply to Message 136466)
Thanks for the response
Posted by JakeLF
on Jun 25, 2004 04:29 AM | Also by JakeLF
| Gender: N/A,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I am in counseling and I find it very helpful, but when I go home and I start to feel lonely I go back into relapsing in my mind. I start to think about the child that I saw at the grocery store or at the mall that I thought was cute, my mind begins to wander. I fall into a false reality where I think that relationships between adults and children are normal and I imagine being with the child as lovers. This sounds stupid I know but I just have that weird outllok on things.
I wish and dream daily that I am not or wasn't a pedophile and that I was normal, that I don't have sexual feelings for children, its a daily struggle that I deal with every single day.
I saw my niece that I was caught for at the court date and she acted like nothing happend, she smiled at me and looked directly at me without fear. I never looked at myself as a monster until in court they described what I did to her. I took her innocence away from her, I took her first sexual experience and made it with me, an adult, not someone her own age, not someone that was more on her level when it came to sex. I had intercourse with her, I took her virginity, I planted my seed in her, to this day I feel sick even thinking that I did this to her. Even though she acted like nothing was wrong, what I did was extremely wrong, it ruined relationships I had with people, my parents disowned me because I told them I was a pedophile.
I changed alot of lives because of what I did to my niece. Your right about saying that I was thinking about sex and she wasn't, just because a child does not resist sexually doesn't mean that there okay with it, they just don't know what is happening.
No, I do not have violent thoughts about children at all, there is no way that I could ever harm a child in that matter, even though I am sure that I damaged my niece by having intercourse with her, I guess I have damaged all the children that I have been with sexually, I more or less caused them pain and by doing that was more or less being violent towards them. I don't try on purpose to be that way and don't think about the aftermath until its too late.
I don't want to be a child destroyer and I don't want to be someone that can't be trusted around children, but I will always be that person because of the children that I molested and the fact that I am a pedophile and certain people know that fact, but its probably good that I am never around children ever again.
The things that causing me grief now is that since I am out of prison and trying to live a sex crime free life, I constantly think about children, its not that I am obsessed or anything, its I just want the companionship of a child. I look back on the times where I would just be cuddling with a child and that was enough for me, nothing sexual would happend, we would just spoon together and I loved that. Maybe I just need more counseling or maybe something else, I have thought big time about castration because I honestly feel that I can't get over my desires over children and that I will always long for a childs company and I want to change but its really hard.
I have lots of guilt over the children that I have hurt, I feel bad that I exposed them to sexual touch at such a young age, I have guilt over the way that I hurt my friends that trusted me with there sons and daughters. I feel bad for all of that, but yet I still think about the sexual touch and all that, but now the difference is that I do not act that out because I know what I did with a child was wrong. I crossed that barrier that adults are never supposed to cross.
I really don't blame the parents or the child or even the realitives when they think about seeking revenge on the perpetartor, I think about how happier my family, my victims and everyone else would be if I were not around. I think that is why some child molesters murder the children that they are sexual with because there chicken shits in dealing with the pain that they have caused to there victim and they think by doing that they will never deal with that. I feel like crap when I realize that I molested children that trusted me, I molested them and made our relationship like crap after we parted ways. I guess in alot of ways I thought I was teaching children about sex when in fact I was using them to get off sexually and thinking back on it now, that is just so screwed up to have done. I guess getting back to feeling about the victim seeking revenge, sometimes I wish that it would happen. Heck I would even write a letter saying that they murdered me because I took there childhood and that I want them to be left alone from serving prison or anything like that.
To be totally honest I think that should be a law, if a parent or a victim of child sexual abuse ends up killing the perpetrator then they should be let off because of what the child molester did to that child.
I have tried to make friends with people and I joined a church and made the mistake of telling the pastor that I was released from prison and he asked me for what and I told him for child molestation and he told me that I wouldn't be a good fit at the church and asked me to leave. I have told people upfront about who I am and what I did and people have rejected me because of that. Also it really doesn't help when I say that I still have an attraction to children because right away they think that I will be back in bed with a child again, so do I sit back and lie about not being a pedophile?
A person can be a pedophile without ever acting out sexually with children, I am a pedophile that has acted out sexually with children but I am now trying extremely hard not to get caught back in that weave of dishonest living as I was before, its hard but I am trying my best. I just don't know what to do sometimes. I have tried to talk to family members about it but they want nothing to do with me.
I just don't have a good life, I know the world would sure not miss me if I were gone thats for sure.
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Message 136551 (In Reply to Message 136528)
Jake
Posted by myoung
on Jun 25, 2004 04:10 PM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Wow, I am seriously worried about how you see yourself. I, as the parent of a victim, understand the rage of a parent and the want to take out the perp but......the only way I can understand the law being okay with it is if the parent really acts in a one time insane moment with a complete lapse of judgment and even then it's sketchy. That is a tough one to prove and just about anyone who commits a crime should use it then since all crimes are based on poor judgment and decision making. I know it isn't easy to be who you are. The impulse factor is a difficult feeling to overcome but you can do it. You are in control of yourself. A one time feel good experience that will lead nowhere and destroy your life isn't worth your self respect and dignity (yes, you need to find those again!!). I think the key thing is to have restraint in your actions because you know it is the right thing to do, fully understand all of the consequences of your actions (which it seems you do) and you have given it a lot of thought before impulsively acting out. I'm not saying it's easy by any stretch....it's the same as putting an addict in a store filled with booze and cocaine and saying you have a one day free pass.....go do it up. Kids are everywhere. Is the false love relationship you have with a child worth destoying your life over and over again?? No, I don't believe that you think that. You are already self loathing....if you act out, I fear you will take yourself out just because your feelings about being a monster are reaffirmed each time you act. Your mind is yours. You control it and you control what you do......never forget that. I am not a big fan of BS mental diagnoses. The only mental illness I actually believe exists is schizophrenia. It actually has physical manifestations in the brain detectable by PET scan which justify the hallucinations, etc. Anything else is likely due to hormone imbalances, trauma or mental retardation. What happens when you try to form adult relationships?? Don't you have any common interests with other adults....hobbies, interests, sports, etc.
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Message 136558 (In Reply to Message 136528)
Jake
Posted by dp1
on Jun 25, 2004 11:22 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
You mentioned castration.....have you tried anti-depressants?
Are you mentioning in therapy about your deviant thoughts?
Are you in individual therapy in lieu of a SO program?
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Message 136576 (In Reply to Message 136445)
Cheer up Mate
Posted by tryingtosurvive
on Jun 26, 2004 01:25 PM | Also by tryingtosurvive
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
I admire your guts and integrity for spilling your story as you have. Firstly I must disagree with you about the retribution
thing UTTERLY - you have caused a wrong to be done and that is a thing that you have been bought to book for - Mate you have
paid your dues and that is an end of it. There is a limit to what is expected of you by way of a "Mia Culpa" .. any soft
cock pastor that turns a man like you away from a supposed house of God and it worthless adherennts and hypocrites, is doing
you a favour . Do you guys have the Salvation Army in America. ? They are hard core and free of wet fish hand shakes ... they
are all action and no talk ..
That you should think a person that killed you in revenge should somehow be excused the due penalty is wrong too . That is
barbarism. A soceity can be judged best by the compassion it shows to it's outsiders.
I cant understand your predilection for messing with kids, it frankly digusts me, but since it is there, I must search for
mechanisms - since I was sexually active at that age with my peers I can recall the delicious innocence of being asked to
interact physicaly with prepubescent girls ... I was only 11.
Since then teeth tits and vast expanses of verdant pubic hair, adult sex have thrown a switch in my head, for me that made me
an adult. I find other vices far less comprehensible than yours ..like gambling away the bread on your famlie's table ....
like letting smack rule your life ... to me these are far more reprehensible.
You have a right to your life with all it's ups and downs .... you have a right to be respected as a human being even by
someone like me who hates paedophiles ...
I ask myself "What if that switch hadn't thrown in my head" and I had the hots for kiddies still instead of Francis Mac
Dormand and Franka Portenta .... and sports planes. More importantly you need to be protected from the ignorant and the
vicious and given the chance to get your shit together. People get damaged for all sorts of reasons .. not just because of
lapses of yours. We do not live in a "Little House in the Praire"
If I found you living next door to me or on my team where I work I would treat you as another human being who is no better or
worse than myself in the role call.
It might be worth your while to read Mark Twain's darker works ... throw you some sence of perspective.
Kind Regards
TTS
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Message 136581 (In Reply to Message 136576)
JAKE
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jun 26, 2004 05:28 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Hi Jake
I have been worrying about you. I really hope that you talk to your counsellor. I am glad that you are coming here but we are not substitutes for a flesh and blood counsellor. First of all we don't really know you and all your circumstances and secondly we are not trained counsellors. I don't want to feel like I say something that I mean to be helpful and it makes you feel a lot worse (as I often seem to do with my daughter) . If you are really feeling down you are going to be viewing yourself and the world through a negative lens and will sometimes take things the wrong way.
I think the most important thing for you right now is to stabilize your emotions. They are what is making you most vulnerable. When people's emotions are running riot they tend to look for things to relieve their pain, and if they lack coping skills or don't know how to handle overwhelming emotions they tend to turn to things that are self-destructive like drugs, alcohol, self-mutilation or in some cases a sexual addiction. It seems to me that thinking about being with children is what you are using to sooth yourself, to distract yourself from your pain. But like all self-destructive things, it only provides a very temporary respite and then you feel even worse. What other things make you feel better when you are down? Make a list. Keep it with you and whenever you feel really down and drawn to self-destructive behaviors do one of the things on the list.
As TTS pointed out, it is not just sexual offenders and their actions that hurt people. People are hurt, betrayed and ruined by many events and people. What is past is past. It is the job of victims to take care of themselves and recover. It is your job to take care of yourself and do no more harm.
You say a lot of things in your post that show you have made progress and are thinking beyond yourself. You talk about a "false reality" where you imagine children as lovers. Exactly. It is a false reality. It is a fantasy and a destructive one. When you find your mind wandering it that direction, stop. Replace that thought with a real thought, eg. the harm done to the victim and yourself. Then move on to a more positive action or thought.
It is possible that you will always be a pedophile. Accept that. Many alcoholics will always be alcoholics but they never have another drink. It is not our temptations that make us hurt others and ourselves - it is our behavior. Maybe you cannot control your attraction to children but you can refuse to act on it. Silverthorne has refused to act on his.
You mention seeing your niece in court and that she smiled at you as if nothing happened. It is tempting to rationalize that she doesn't really seem to be harmed by what you did, and I hope this is the case. Every one of us does this when we do something bad - that is we tell ourselves that we didn't really mean or do any harm. I hope, like you, that this means she will go on to live a healthy happy life. But I have to tell you that you may be seeing what you want to see. My daughter smiled and acted like nothing happened as well. Inside she was coming apart. I pray that your niece will recover, that the harm to her will be minimal and so should you. However, sexual abuse of children is sort of like shooting off a gun randomly in a mall. You may say you never wanted to kill anyone, but it is a reckless regard for human life. And it is not just the child's life that is affected but all those who love him/her. But you know this. You are recognizing this. That's good. Keep at it. Don't let your mind slip into the error that you weren't really doing any harm.
As to others seeking revenge on you, when I told you about how I feel about my daughter's rapist I was not telling you that because I think it is a good thing. I was using it as an example of how I too have dark fantasies that I have to pull myself back from. Even though I think he DESERVES punishment and I feel angry that he did not suffer any consequences for what he did I would not really take the law into my own hands. That is because I don't believe in the principle of vigilante justice. If everyone just ran around punishing the people they think deserve it we would have anarchy. I don't want to live in a society like that. I want to live in a society that is just and fair, where there isn't a law of the jungle, where people are innocent until proved guilty and where there is rehabilitation and second chances for those that offend. In our case that means we have had to sacrifice justice for our daughter for the greater good. That's painful but it's life.
I am sorry that your efforts to make new friends have been rebuffed, but don't give up. I agree with TTS that that minister was being hypocritical. Christians are supposed to be in the business of forgiveness. TTS said that the Salvation Army are a group that live their faith and he is right, although Fallenone said they wouldn't accept him. I used to belong to the Salvation Army as a kid, however and I can vouch for what TTS says. In my experience they never gave up on people. Maybe you could start by writing a letter, saying how much you are struggling to live a good life and need their help.
As for the immediate urges you have. Don't act on them. There is always an alternative. It would be good if you had a buddy, sort of like an AA buddy, that you could take to at these times. If not try another minister, God, a crisis line. Do you have a PO? Even taking a walk down to the police station and telling them you are worried about yourself would be better than offending on a child. Preempt yourself. You talked before about missing jail :)
I can't help but see the parallels between you and my daughter and this is what I meant by both perpetrators and victims having to heal. My daughter hates being in the hospital but sometimes she couldn't stand the pain anymore and she would make a suicide attempt - fortunately she would usually go and tell someone after she had swallowed the pills or poison and would get into the hospital in enough time to save her life. Self-mutilation and suicide attempts are her poor coping strategies. When she is feeling really bad thinking about suicide is comforting to her. Unfortunately allowing herself to think about it a lot makes it more likely she will actually do it. She is getting a little better. Now she tries to district herself from those self-destructive thoughts and actions but when she really can't stand it anymore she checks herself into the emergency BEFORE she does anything. She might only spend a day there but it is enough.
Jake, you can MAKE a good life. Don't wait for it to happen to you. Believe in yourself. No one else has to believe in you as long as you do.
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Message 136620 (In Reply to Message 136581)
Amen to DMW with some reservations.
Posted by tryingtosurvive
on Jun 27, 2004 01:10 PM | Also by tryingtosurvive
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
Dont EVER trust the coppers. My only dealings with coppers before I got into strife was through Niegborhood Watch as an Area Coordinator and I was hopelessly naive when I was brought in for questioning. Only way to deal with them is through a good lawyer .
You can find good council in this BB - Silverthorne particularly impresses me.
By me saying if you moved in next door to me and came across to introduce yourself to me and told me of your history I would definitely find you a beer in recognition of your guts and honesty , I may be steering you crook. I DEFINITLY would, but others may not have had as many corner knocked off them as I have.
My girlfriends ex father in law was busted for child molesting fair and square but yet her ex and the man himself ,refused to take it on board.
He died alone on the road to Mt Magnet and , may God have mercy on me , I was well pleased that another oxygen thief had bit the dust.
St Tomas Aquinas might have room for someone like that in his cosmology but I dont. It is not in my job description.
Mate ....Keep one foot ahead of the next and be patient . Read St Augustine.
Reading the bible is good too ... I hope you can make that quantum leap back into the safe warm fun place life is meant to be.
I would be interested to find out how you found prison .. compare notes as it were. I hated it.
Mind how you go my friend.
TTS
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Message 136634 (In Reply to Message 136620)
TTS
Posted by dp1
on Jun 27, 2004 09:36 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I'm sorry if I forgot your story, but you mentioned you went to prison? For what and where may I ask?
I know you've been struggling with this alleged rape case for some time. What the hell is taking so long? Is this normal? You might die of old age before they get to your case.
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Message 136688 (In Reply to Message 136508)
Therapy doesn't cut it.
Posted by fallenone
on Jun 28, 2004 07:34 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
It is amazing how people on your side brush off things by directing us all to therapy. I've heard this from a couple of you here as of late. Therapy only goes so far and is ineffective for a couple of reasons the main one being it doesn't do anything to relieve isolationism or a host of other things. The therapist is just that-- a therapist; the therapist doesn't hang out with us date us love us or invite us to visit family. The therapist gets paid to listen to us and give us advice but that's it. A personal pep rally is the gist of it.
Isolationism can only be cured one way and that is to get out and meet people. A few months ago I just picked a church to go to. I met people there. I met people at the shelter, and met people in my classes and now at work. Now I know a few people. Granted the level of relationship is not to my demand but I'm not completely alone. Plus there is nothing wrong with having friends online too. Scarlett has been a real help to my these past few weeks during my own depression so I consider her my friend. It takes more than therapy and getting on meds. Maybe if some people actrually reached out to the man things would be better but most people on your side would rather crucify the man upside down. A real relationship, friendship or otherwise is the better way. So to Jake I'd say overcome any reservations you have in meeting people and find a place where you can find some compassion and understanding. There are people out there who CAN accept your past and give you a chance. You have us too so don't forget it.
The Fallen One
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Message 136701 (In Reply to Message 136688)
Listen to What you're Saying
Posted by dp1
on Jun 29, 2004 02:52 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
It is amazing how people on your side brush off things by directing us all to therapy.
There can be nothing more of a brush off in my opinion then to tell a pedophile who is fighting his sexual urges towards children on a daily basis that therapy is ineffective.
If you are a pedophile and know of a more effective method to stop the urges or control them then feel free to disclose that information so we can all learn from your experiences. Until such time, in my opinion, let's leave that up to the experts.
I once made the mistake and called you a level 3 and you quickly corrected me and told me you were a level one. Now it appears you are alluding to being a pedophile. Although I don't recall you ever saying you had sexual desires towards children, I am surprised you quickly discounted professional help for a fellow SO with that infliction. If you are not a pedophile (which I suspect you aren't) then please think about what and who you are talking to before you brush off their problem by minimizing the only possible course of action he can take to help his urges towards molesting more children. This is very crucial for a pedophile with stronge urges. Unless you fight this battle daily like other pedophiles it's unlikely that you'd understand the gravity of the situation.
Balancing one's life is very important as you suggested not just for pedophiles, SO's but all of us. But, when a personal problem becomes compulsive, such as sexual attraction towards children and deviant sexual fantasies it's time to bring in the heavy duty professionals. Friends, co-workers, family, internet buddies just don't cut the mustard. They are all fun and fine, but none of us have the experience in treating pedophilia, plain and simple.
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Message 136703 (In Reply to Message 136701)
Posted by steve
on Jun 29, 2004 03:17 AM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
I once made the mistake and called you a level 3 and you quickly corrected me and told me you were a level one. Now it appears you are alluding to being a pedophile. Although I don't recall you ever saying you had sexual desires towards children, I am surprised you quickly discounted professional help for a fellow SO with that infliction. If you are not a pedophile (which I suspect you aren't)...
Based on what fallenone has shared about the incident that led to his arrest, conviction and incarceration in prison, I think he is probably appropriately described as a "situational child molester" as opposed to a pedophile. fallenone, do you consider that an accurate assessment?
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Message 136722 (In Reply to Message 136703)
An unDePendable assessment
Posted by fallenone
on Jun 29, 2004 05:10 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
It's kinda funny how someone like Steve, a man admittedly not a bona fide expert in this field, can get a higher understanding about the issues than a person working with SOs for the last 15 years. Once again DP1 is disappointing me as she always does because after so long in the field she hasn't learned a thing. You read what people say DP but you don't absorb it nor understand or even let your personal bias get in the way of the obvious. I said therapy is NOT ENOUGH. Someone can give advice every day for life but when I leave the session then what? If I go home to an empty room where I have nothing to occupy my time, no people to ralk to when I'm feeling down, etc., what good is it? Jake and anyone in similar situations know exactly what I mean. No one to talk to except a counselor. Ever been to a therapy session dp? It's not the same as when you go out with friends, hang around friencdly people in a church, and so on. The isolationism brough upon most by Jake himself is dangerous, and no amount of therapy in the world can give anyone the same sense of belonging as having someone really give a damn about you. Scarlett has done more for me just by her friendship than my counselors have during this time of my like because I don't pay her to listen to my problems, and she actually cares about me enough to take a few minutes out of her real life to talk to me. Going to church, hanging out with a nice morally minded individual, and keeping myself busy with a variety of activities has done me more good than years, no, DECADES of therapy I've already had. It's not without some value but I merely stated you treat therapy as a cure all when it is not. The longer I involve myself here DP the less respect I have for you and the more I have come to believe you are ill qualified to be in your position. And I make no apologies for saying it.
The Fallen One
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Message 136725 (In Reply to Message 136722)
Beautiful
Posted by dp1
on Jun 29, 2004 06:29 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I love your posts because the true nature of a sex offender bleeds through and through. The people that read these posts need to see your reaction and your objections to professional help. It is difficult for the average person and or victim to understand why pedophiles and or sex offenders don't get help BEFORE they get arrested and this is really helping thank you.
First off, let's recap. My objection to your other post was your opinion of therapy which was it is ineffective.
Therapy only goes so far and is ineffective for a couple of reasons the main one being it doesn't do anything to relieve isolationism or a host of other things.
Now, either you are a pedophile and you are talking from experience or you have experience with treating pedophiles. Which is it? I addressed this in my last post and you still have not answered this question. If you are not a pedophile and or have not been trained in treating pedophiles this is important because the readers need to see the irrational decisions sex offenders make and why. The lack of logic and flawed thinking is what starts the ball rolling and it is so easy to fall into that trap.
You prefer to ignore the real issues. The real issue in this case is the attraction towards children and the possibility of acting out.
If you are suggesting that pedophiles turn to online buddies who happen to be fellow sex offenders for therapy you are out of your mind. No wonder I disappoint you. I don't enable flawed thinking. I know the person you are online with and that person also committed a sex offense, am I right? And this is what you are suggesting pedophiles to do? WOW. Once again, no problem with support networks, my objection to your post, as I have said, is you are stating that proffessional treatment is ineffective and elluding that chatting with SO's is the better option.
Of course, I must be pissing you off. That's a no brainer. It doesn't take a professional with experience working with pedos to see the mistakes and the cycles repeat themselves over and over and over again. It's also interesting to see the anger in your posts towards me simply for suggesting professional therapy to a pedophile who is worried about acting out. There's no need for me to elaborate on this one. I'm sure anyone reading these posts can read between the lines.
You can continue to advise pedophiles to seek help online with fellow sex offenders, and I will continue to advise them to seek professional help with a trained psychologist. It doesn't matter one bit that my suggestions disappoint you or piss you off. It's all a matter of whether or not the SO or pedo really wants to rehabilitate.
There is no question that a balanced life such as work, shelter, food, friends, health, church, school, etc... is all part of successful rehabilitation. That's a no brainer also F1. The issue is, should a pedophile get professional help BEFORE he acts out? If a pedophile with multiple victims is complaining about his attraction to children, should a fellow SO minimize professional help and suggest chatting with fellow SO's instead?
Once again, thank you for your post. I have said in the past and will continue to say that SO's struggle to police themselves. They continue to sabatoge other's rehab and make poor decisions. You quickly criticize me for example with many years experience with pedophiles, yet you can't even admit whether you are one or not and or tell us your experience in treating them. As I said before, I suspect you are not a pedophile and that you have ZERO experience in treating pedophilia. Your opinion is based on your experiences alone which are important; however, clearly not related to this issue. Yet, you are quick to direct others in the wrong direction. Wake up F1, helping people does not mean enabling, it means taking care of the problem at it's roots. If you can't admit that pedophilia is a very serious problem that needs professional help then maybe you are more disappointed in yourself then me.
I am anxiously awaiting your next post. Each new post I read from you becomes increasingly more angry and irrational. Your objections to sound suggestions are important for the readers and victims to read. Attacking me personally is even a better example of out of control anger. Bring it on. Your verbal abuse is welcomed as well as your intimidation tactics. Give us your best F1. Continue knocking professioanl therapy even though study after study indicates it reduces re-offending.
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Message 136728 (In Reply to Message 136725)
Friendly Suggestion
Posted by dp1
on Jun 29, 2004 06:49 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
F1,
Let's take your angry posts, verbal attacks and insults to the General Forum and leave this forum for SO friendly support out of respect for other SO's who may be trying to get help and don't appreciate those types of comments.
DP1
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Message 136739 (In Reply to Message 136722)
F1
Posted by myoung
on Jun 29, 2004 08:41 PM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I don't think steve has the type of career that brings him face to face with people who are SO's or RSO's. but, kp1 does and has more first hand knowledge about these things. Reading and understanding what is going on around you is very different than living it and dealing with it on a daily basis. It's the difference between a theoretical chemist and one who actually works in the lab. Theoretical chemists read books and calculate the outcomes of experiments on paper based on the thermodynamics they have learned in theory. Information always works on paper but now try to have it work in the real world like the lab. Everything sounds nice, in theory. I'm sure it gets a little sickening after a while when you see the same types of crimes and the same people committing them day after day. Especially when, on paper, statistics show that this shouldn't be or whatever....DP1 has every right to feel that you are in the wrong here and I find it interesting that she upsets you so. You don't have a very positive outlook about professional help and it gives the general impression that you have that defeatist, negative, anitestablishment/antiauthority type attitude. That is nothing but trouble waiting to happen. It is much easier to talk to another SO and make yourselves feel better by justifying and empathizing with each other. That is all very comforting I'm sure and always much nicer to hear the things you want to hear vs. what a therapist may need to tell you. But remember, your mind is your own. You are in control of it. You have the ability to get out there and make an effort not to feel isolated. you have the power not to give up. Therapy gives you the tools to learn how to not give up and to find methods that work. The way you are talking is indicative of someone who feels the path of least resistance will get you out of it. You can't just go to your therapist and vent at each session (that isn't therapy). You have to learn and work and apply what they teach while you are in their office as well as when you leave. You are sadly misguided in your understanding of therapy. There is a cost to everything good that comes. You put the energy in you will get good product out. Entropy vs. Enthalpy. It rules the universe and everything in it. Simple laws of thermodynamics. They apply to everything. If you owned a house do you think you could live in it for your whole life without maintenancing it?? NO. Do you think you can live in your body without maintenancing it?? Absolutely no. Without expending some energy (making an effort) things breakdown. Conceptually it can be applied to anything and everything. (anyone who has bad judgement, etc). If you put the energy in (make the effort) to use restraint, derail poor thinking etc. you will get good results instead of a breakdown in your world. Right now you sound like a justifier, an excuser, a sympathizer. Comforting and being comforted by other SO's isn't the answer
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Message 136740 (In Reply to Message 136739)
Posted by steve
on Jun 29, 2004 09:16 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
I don't think steve has the type of career that brings him face to face with people who are SO's or RSO's.
Correct, myoung. For those not familiar with my background, I started this site in 1998 because there wasn't a central source of online sex offender registries and I thought some would find such a resource useful, not because I had relevant professional experience. Though I am fairly knowledgeable about sex offenders and sex crimes 6 years later, I don't work with sex offenders or in a field related to sex crimes.
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Message 136742 (In Reply to Message 136739)
MYoung
Posted by dp1
on Jun 29, 2004 11:49 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Thank you for your thoughts. I do not take these types of posts personally, it's simply a learning process for all parties concerned. The issue here has been and still is whether or not professional therapy is the route to take for a pedophile concerned about his deviant thoughts regarding children. Whether I have personal experience with working with pedophiles or whether Steve, the founder of this site doesn't, isn't the issue. We all simply need to apply common sense to a situation regardless of our backgrounds. The consequences can be grave as we all well know when pedophiles re-offend. Making decisions for dangerous offenders who are resistant to change is not an easy task as you well know and can plainly see. No matter how painful it might be, therapy is the only way to increase the chances of not re-offending by learning the tools required to live a normal, balanced life.
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Message 136747 (In Reply to Message 136742)
absolutely dp1
Posted by myoung
on Jun 30, 2004 03:53 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
You took the words right out of my geeky mouth...lol. Resistant to change is what I was trying to get at I think but the words weren't coming. Therapy is a lot of work and if you aren't willing to work, you will not do well. It's not the therapy that failed you, it's you who failed in therapy. I have been in therapy since long before my daughter was molested. Geez, it's been nearly 10 years I think. I use biofeedback, accupuncture, meditation, yoga, and whatever other methods my therapists feels will help. We do have venting sessions but he applies accupuncture while I am doing that. It helps me relax and keep my thoughts straight. But, I have to go home and actually apply all of these methods. Unlike my sister who is still rather unwell and has been in therapy longer than I. She doesn't do the work and she doesn't apply the principles. That is so key to recovery. I nearly burst into tears when my father told me that all of the biofeedback tapes she has from therapy are still unopened. He also informed me that instead of actually doing the yoga exercises and meditation, she watches the cd but never does it. Funny, she doesn't do the work and I've noticed her slipping back into her old patterns and ways of thinking as well. She and I are a good experiment to see if these things really work. We had and have similar issues but one of us is working hard at it and the other is not. Which do you think will slip back first?? Hmmmmmmm
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Message 136751 (In Reply to Message 136747)
MYoung
Posted by dp1
on Jun 30, 2004 04:57 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
You are bringing out some excellent points. A common thing that happens with pedophles I've noticed is that they are scared to death to tell their therapist they have slipped. They will inevitably tell me they are having deviant thoughts before they tell their therapist. They do this because they know I won't yell at them or threaten them in any way, nor would I be in the least bit surprised or disappointed. Their therapist on the other hand would give them hell. For this reason, I always make a point to meet with my therapists at least once a month. As soon as the SO's realize there are no secrets they start working on their stuff.
The interesting thing I've learned about chatting and posting is that you can say what you want when you want and not have to take full responsibility for your actions. Cyberspace is fun, but it's not real. Unfortunately, real people are posting with real life problems that we have little control over since we don't ever know who they are. The least we can all do is not to play into their fantasy and slap a few folks with some reality. Know what I mean?
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Message 136775 (In Reply to Message 136751)
uh huh
Posted by myoung
on Jul 01, 2004 12:53 PM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I sure do DP1. If you don't want to attract bears, don't put sugar on it.
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Message 136781 (In Reply to Message 136728)
Get over yourself
Posted by fallenone
on Jul 01, 2004 03:21 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
I am free to express any of my beliefs so deal with it DP1. The problem here is that you personally attack someone not afraid to contradict you or confront you on anything here. What makes you think I'm less qualified to offer my own synopses of what works than you? I have a BS in Justice Studies, have been THOROUGHLY involved in a variety of sex offender treatment programs, and I guarantee you I have seen more of BOTH sides of the spectrum than most people. I think you have a problem that someone is not afraid to speak up. You mistook my kindness for weakness and now you have to resort to petty attacks because I am bold enough to tell you I think you are unqualified and largely in the dark about what people say here. You don't even read half of what's here you just read what you want into things. Did I tell Jake to just quit counseling? No. Just the opposite. But I said he needs to quit keeping himself isolated so muchy and find some support and things to do and between the two he'll be the better for it.
I've put everything out here on the line every time I type. I make no apologies for what I say because I stand behind what I believe. If you want to think I'm some pedo slobbering and drooling over some kiddie buffet then I say you are wrong. So I take it unless I return to nice meek fallenone who lets people bully me around then I'm now the evil monster everyone is afraid of. GET REAL!!! Nothing will satisfy you as long as you continue your line of thinking.
The Fallen One
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Message 136783 (In Reply to Message 136739)
Et tu, brute?
Posted by fallenone
on Jul 01, 2004 03:54 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
You just don't get it either. I have gone through years of therapy. Is it an exact science? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Like our religions psychology has it's demoninations. Some use Gestalt, others follow classic psychoanalysis, some use RET, etc. We have no silver bullet there. And sadly enough, precious little has been devoted to understanding and treating sexual addiction. The "experts" have little understanding of it compared to other problems. Then there are those who don't even believe in mental illness except schizophrenia. The point is even at its best therapy can only offer certain things but not others. I've come from counseling feeling good only for it to dissipate as soon as I returned to my empty room. My reason for my first post regarding this was because Jake stated that he feels just that-- good when at therapy, but miserable returning to an empty house. He is afraid to meet new people. Hell I was afraid at first but I was kinda forced into it by my circumstances. Therapy still cannot replace other needed things no more than crack cocaine can replace the nutrition of real food. therapy is only a part, not the entirety of, the solution. Your side fools yourself into these cliche solutions rather than the hard facts.
Believe me, if I was the one to take the easy way out I wouldn't bother coming here trying to open the eyes of the blind. I face no condemnation anywhere except here. You are like DP too quick to brush off someone who speaks out against your views as just some clown who needs therapy but be isolated from everyone else. Again you are wrong. If I was alcoholic I'd listen to someone who overcame the addiction and survived than anyone else. You still speak from victim stance. You cannot fully understand what it's like to be SO so while you have limited knowledge you have nowhere near the level of understanding as I or any other SO who's been there done that. You take an either-or mentality. I take a "both-and" mentality. It takes counseling AND support AND activity, while you go by counseling alone. That's all Jake has now but with friends and activities beyond go home and sit in a self imposed cell, you'll see a productive and happier Jake.
The Fallen One
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Message 136792 (In Reply to Message 136725)
Posted by fallenone
on Jul 01, 2004 06:27 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
Having you accuse me of evading the question is like the pot calling the kettle black. You have been doing that as long as I've been here. I am not a pedophile nor have a master's in psychotherapy. I do have a BS in Justice Studies with a concentration in Behavioral Sciences. I have been active in the Sex Offenders Anonymous program and also interact with a variety of sexual offenders from the indecent exposures to the multiple rapists. I think I have enough qualifications to know what I'm talking about. You have a specific job which apparently has brought on the type of cynical attitude typical of disenchanted LE. You cannot acknowledge that SOs can overcome their shortcomings. You still advocate we all be equally screwed by the establishment. You think my opinion is irrational? I think yours more so. You think all someone has to do is go to therapy and everything will be alright. You are the one with the flawed thinking. And of course you think I am seething with anger just because our opinions clash. Wrong again. The therapy is not the issue because by his own admission Jake is ALREADY in therapy. Nowhere did I say for him to quit. Your "reading between the lines" can thus be seen as your own personal bias against any suggestion beyond the feeble system now in place. As far as these studies go, those people it has helped were not isolated as you'd like. There are support factors, that person is not holed up in some self-imposed cage, and other measures apart from therapy alone have to factored in. You are trying to play the victim role. You're no victim so get real. Apparently any opinion not in tune with yours is irrational or "out of control." Whatever. If you feel intimidated by someone not afraid to confront you and the issues then that's your own fault because that is not my intent. I don't expect to change the world, but I'm here to do my part. So we don't agree on the methods. So what. I have no personal feelings regarding you. That's irrelevent. If you feel it's personal, then perhaps you're merely feling the conviction of your own fallacious and biased thoughts. I think you and myoung take this too personal. I'm not here for you nor have I ever been I've been here for the SO from day one. I look for something better than what's in place now because I don't want to see anyone's lives destroyed and I believe that man has the capacity to change from their evil ways. When are you gonna open your own eyes?
The Fallen One
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Message 136817 (In Reply to Message 136445)
what about just talking to your PO
Posted by nolongerhomocidal
on Jul 02, 2004 04:04 AM | Also by nolongerhomocidal
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Perhaps you should try contacting the child advocacy groups in your area. Tell them that you are having a hard tiime struggling with your sexual desires and you fear that you might repeat your offenses towards innocent children. I am thinking that if that doesnt work you could go to your Parole Officer and tell him/her that you are having a hard time controlling your urges. I think they might appreciate your honesty and be willing to find different resources or perhaps more resources to help you in your plight. I understand it must be hard for you. Should you end up becoming a repeat offender that goes to court again, you might try telling the judge that you just cant help yourself when you are around children.
Or you could just start trying to listen to your inner self... the one that tells you that its wrong to touch children in a sexual way. Perhaps you should try a lil harder to listen to yourself when you know what you are saying is right.
We can all give you suggestions. Tell you what you should be doing. But the fact is YOU already know what you should be doing. You dont need us to tell you that molesting children is wrong. I read that you stated you have already done time in prison. Your lil quip about missing it too. And if thats the case ... there are many other crimes out there that you can commit that dont involve children. So I am not sure why you would type out that you are having a hard time dealing with sexual desires towards children. I am sorry you feel inadequate when it comes to adult partners. Perhaps you should be dealing with your self esteem issue as well. But like I already said you dont need to be told what to do. However I will say this .... please dont molest or sexually offend any more innocent children for your own gratification. It isnt right.
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Message 136831 (In Reply to Message 136817)
NLH
Posted by dp1
on Jul 02, 2004 02:00 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
nolongerhomocidal,
Hello and welcome to this forum. You bring up some good points. I just wanted to thank you for sharing. Can you tell us a little about yourself?
I am a PO, so I know what you are saying. I'll be honest with you though, not all people on probation trust their PO's. Some have fear or control issues which will always get in the middle of effective communication. But, recommending that someone talk to their PO is the right thing to do and quite honestly it's better to talk to your PO even if you think he'll get mad at you then to stuff and face possible re-offending.
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Message 136854 (In Reply to Message 136792)
F1
Posted by dp1
on Jul 03, 2004 11:17 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
The therapy is not the issue because by his own admission Jake is ALREADY in therapy. Nowhere did I say for him to quit. Your "reading between the lines" can thus be seen as your own personal bias against any suggestion beyond the feeble system now in place.
This is the second time I’ve quoted YOUR words. Please advise which lines I am reading BETWEEN.
Therapy only goes so far and is ineffective for a couple of reasons the main one being it doesn't do anything to relieve isolationism or a host of other things.
It appears to me I was very clear that therapy was the issue and you clearly stated it was ineffective. I see you’ve done some back peddling so obviously you don’t think therapy really is ineffective you just can’t admit I gotcha.
You think all someone has to do is go to therapy and everything will be alright. You are the one with the flawed thinking.
Where in the world did you come up with this? Did you forget I see SO’s go to jail every single day, even SO’s in treatment? I never said everything would be all right and never will. You must have me mistaken for someone else.
As far as these studies go, those people it has helped were not isolated, as you'd like.
Once again, you must have my identity confused. I never once said I would like to see SO’s isolated nor do I even hint at the mere thought. I have on several occasions spoken out against clustering, zip codes and bus stop laws. Do my real views not fit the typical LE we all love to hate? Am I not the "establishment" SO's love to slam? Sorry, I disappoint you and don’t fit the mold.
You are trying to play the victim role. You're no victim so get real.
Please enlighten all of us where this came from. I don’t recall ever being molested as a child. Do I suffer from a suppressed memory that I can’t remember but only post about in my sleep? Considering the amount of posts I post directly to SO’s vs. the victims I can’t even imagine how I might have remotely given that impression.
F1, pick your battles wisely. Look over the history of posts. You will find I have more supportive posts directed towards the SO’s than any SO or victim combined. I have on many occasions spoken out in favor of SO’s with the victims. Hmmm. So if I haven’t been molested and support SO’s, what’s the I am trying to play the victim role thing about? Are you insulted that I post to the victim’s board?
Apparently any opinion not in tune with yours is irrational or "out of control." Whatever. If you feel intimidated by someone not afraid to confront you and the issues then that's your own fault because that is not my intent.
Once again you’re not talking about reality. I almost always join threads and post for the sole purpose of debate. Just ask Silverthorne or Orolan. There’s no need in the middle of a debate to make judgments about my job performance (which by the way for the benefit of the readers….this person never even met me or anyone I’ve ever worked with nor has he ever worked in the field of law enforcement). That makes as much sense as comments I remember that used to come from another angry SO who used to talk about PO’s GPAs as if he went to college with me. Just try and stick to the issue and not let the conversations get out of control. That’s all I ask. If the issue is whether or not therapy is effective then let’s not talk about my GPA, my job performance, your mother, my mother, or your X-girlfriend’s shoe size. Keep the posts controlled by not engaging in personal attacks where they don’t belong.
. I have no personal feelings regarding you. That's irrelevent. If you feel it's personal, then perhaps you're merely feling the conviction of your own fallacious and biased thoughts.
Yes you do and quit lying about it. You have allowed your personal feelings about me get in the way of debates. For example,
The longer I involve myself here DP the less respect I have for you and the more I have come to believe you are ill qualified to be in your position. And I make no apologies for saying it.
This statement had no bearing on the issue I raised about therapy being effective. I have no problems with your feelings since you are as human as I. But, don’t flat out lie and pretend your posts don’t personally attack. That is not accurate. If there’s something bothering you personally about me and it is frustrating you to this level then why don’t you just PM me and tell me off. Then let’s get back to business. I have no doubt what I represent bothers you. You address posts to me that sound like your talking to the "establishment" by venting about things I never even spoke about. You have on more than one occasion talked about studying criminal justice and not being able to work in the field because of your background. There really must be some resentment there. I understand completely. Don’t let your frustrations eat you up. Get over it F1. Accept I am not the "establishment" and a human being just like you that makes mistakes, has feelings and compassion for SO.
. I'm not here for you nor have I ever been I've been here for the SO from day one.
Likewise. I am not here for you either. However, I will assume you are human and treat you as such. My objections to your posts are the insults and digs which divide not only “us” but the overall relationship between the SO’s and non-SO’s. There is no question I have been very supportive towards most of the SO’s. And maybe I have not been as supportive to you as you would like. I somehow suspect that is true because more than once you’ve brought up how I didn’t remember a certain detail about your case which would suggest you are aware I have not paid too much attention to you. Well maybe it’s time we get to know each other a little better, pay attention to each other, accept our differences and move forward.
P.S.
Let me come right out say something not only for your benefit but for others reading this. I know it bothers you that I have evaded certain issues. Other people have not mentioned it probably because they've been here longer and figured out my MO so to speak. I have on several occassions refused to answer certain questions on a public forum when I know for a fact will encite SO. I have no problems with PMs and never have. I have on many occassions posted things myself that caused debates or fights. But, I have seen too many debates turn to nothing more than mean, back biting sessions that weren't theraputic for anyone. If I feel a situation like that is coming on I will stop and avoid the situation. You seem to take offense to that. It's the only way I have found to stop or control an out of control situation on the forum. F1, you may not have been here long enough to appreciate what I am saying. There used to be some very nasty posters on this forum a long time ago. Things have turned around 100%. Some of us long time reguler posters here have worked hard at eliminating the intense flame throwing posts that used to be common place around here. If you don't believe me just ask Silverthorne, Orolan or Steve.
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Message 136873 (In Reply to Message 136854)
You're trying too hard
Posted by fallenone
on Jul 03, 2004 07:45 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
Just because someone is put in a position and works there does not necessarily mean that person has the capability to fully handle the job. There are two people working with me now who are ill suited to do the job but they are still there. And i suppose you didn't go to college or you'd know almost evey college in the country makes you intern for most degrees. What makes you think I'm unqualified to know what I'm talking about? Just because I haven't been on official DOJ payrolls? I have worked with SOs before and during prison thank you very much.
You can call my statements "backpeddling" if you so desire. Being an average human with a short time schedule I had only a few minutes to type my thoughts before rushing on to work and as such I did not have time to say all I needed to say on the subject. My time here is getting rather limited between my job, school and SOFIA. Next time I will wait until I have time to explain fully any comments I make but I back up what I say and that's that.
Actually you do "fit the mold." You have stated you are in favor of most limits on the SOs unless they cause more work for you. You had stated to me in a discussion regarding jobs SOs do not work well with people (a generalization), you are in favor of sanctions against those who could not find housing for circumstances beyond their control (don't forget that's why I started posting here), and you believe all SOs are alike and there's no cure. And after reading so much of your posts I also realize your knowledge in many places is quite inadequate. My only disappointment in regards to you comes from the latter. You've shown me as one to not get the whole story before rebuttals, one not detail-oriented. Getting the details is important but you prefer generalizations because it is easier to lump us all together as equally bad. So even if you aren't as bad in your eyes as some of the others you still are in the dark. I see also someonme has to draw your ire to get you to stand up for anything. To me you tend to contradict yourself a great deal. I don't need to meet you in public to ascertain your ability to do your job. Your words speak plenty.
You are still offended I question your abilities to do your job. Whatever. If you said I was unqualified to disect the atom I'd not be offended though I have blown a few things up. I can admit where I'm Ignorant. If you can't that's on you. The PM will come next week, by the way. It's 2:45 and I gotta go to work. The Library's closed till the 6th so you'll just have to wait.
The Fallen One
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Message 136887 (In Reply to Message 136873)
F1
Posted by dp1
on Jul 04, 2004 04:31 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
You are still offended I question your abilities to do your job.
You’ve missed my point altogether. It’s the lack of healthy boundaries, sticking to the issues and attacking on the personal level, which causes dividing I have serious issues with.
. And I suppose you didn't go to college or you'd know almost evey college in the country makes you intern for most degrees.
And I suppose F1 aka Mr. Details hasn’t been reading or comprehending my posts; if you did you would know that I am retired military, a college graduate and a PO as my second career. It’s amazing how little in reality you actually know about me even though this information has been posted. For someone that fixates on details and on my personal issues, may I suggest getting your facts straight before you jump to illogical conclusions? Talk about contradiction……
I realize your perception of LE is totally off base because of your lack of experience. If all I had was a criminal justice major I might have distorted views of the career field also. I am surprised though how much you claim to know about details, yet you weren’t aware of the basic requirements for a PO. I also see in your profile your still in your 20’s and that explains a lot. But, immaturity doesn’t account for all the irrational conclusions and the resentment you feel towards the establishment nor does it explain your resentment towards me because you can’t get the experience as you once desired before your crime.
I also realize your knowledge in many places is quite inadequate.
My knowledge is limited to my life experiences both personal and professional as is yours and everyone else’s. I realize I post very few details about my personal life for very good reason, and I speak in general terms about probation and parole cases for obvious reasons. Either you benefit from my experiences or you don’t. I never once said I know everything about everything and I’m extremely disturbed by someone in your shoes thinking that you do. So far, all I’ve seen from you is resentment and negativity. Unfortunately, I do not benefit from your experiences because I find you are the exception. Life is not all doom and gloom. There are many successful SO’s. I have posted about some successful stories and make no bones about how many actually do get on with their lives. I do not share the grim views that you and some others on this forum tend to have.
I noticed you never objected to the numerous posts I’ve posted to or about SO’s that put them in a positive light. It’s when I share the common goal or views of “the establishment” you have issues. Were you thinking that you were going to get into LE to fight the system? To debate issues with establishment? To change the world? I find it a compliment that you recognize I do support the system and enforce laws. That is what I get paid to do.
I can understand someone thinking a PO was ill equipped to do their job if they failed to arrest someone who violated their probation, was too stupid to handcuff a dangerous offender who escaped from custody and hurt someone, or didn’t report drug abuse or contact with children to the Courts. I could even see how a PO would be considered incompetent if they failed to refer a SO to sex offender treatment or if they failed to file the registration paperwork in a timely fashion. We all make mistakes and I am not suggesting that every PO would be incompetent if the above situations occurred, but my point being is that you don’t know how many bad guys I get off the streets, how many busts I make, how many searches I do and find illegal things, how detailed my reports are and VOP conviction rate is, so on and so forth. You haven’t even read the first high profile PSI I’ve authored or any other investigation. Your assessment of my job skills is totally based on the fact that you don’t like me. You have taken my objection to you attacking my job skills in the wrong light. I already know you have no clue about the business or what I do. I object to the irrational conclusions you draw and use them to attack for your own personal agenda. Can you not see the abusive behavior I have so meticulously tried to point out?
I do not post to talk about me. I must say that I do apologize for talking about myself, but it seems appropriate to bring the point home. I suspect you will continue to needle me for personal details and attack on a personal level. I will not continue this debate any further in this forum for that reason, as it does not benefit anyone else from this point forward. I’m sorry I feel very strongly about this. Unhealthy boundaries and verbal attacks set bad examples. We are on this forum to discuss SO behavior and that is what I pointed out. I have no intentions of posting personal issues that do not pertain to the forum. If you would like to inquire about my career field because you have a genuine interest or clear up any other misperceptions you might have then feel free to PM me. I will not entertain PM’s on why you don’t like me. If you keep the boundaries healthy and professional I will respond respectfully.
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Message 137004 (In Reply to Message 136887)
reforming the system stating with one
Posted by fallenone
on Jul 06, 2004 11:42 PM | Also by fallenone
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Ohio,
Country: United States |
What make you think I'm NOT a success? Despite people like you who would lock me up for being homeless, I am back on my feet. I proved people wrong again, all those who doubted I'd make it, those who tried to stop me. I did it on my own. In the end it was good old fashioned perseverance that got me this far and it will take me even higher. And regarding my age I've lived more in my 27 years than most peopple have. Regardless age and what you've gone through means nothing if you've learned nothing from it. Face it you've learned little more than an overwhelming cynicism and negative viewpoint on SOs that permeates thoughout your posts. And I'll decline any of the other offers. I have enough knowledge about your career and see why it is always in need of reform. Reforming a system begins within the people behind the reform. It starts with all the disenchanted people who work these jobs who forget they are dealing with human lives not just chattle. It's one thing to push some nameless face off to some treatment camp and force him to shell out fees for undesired services but it's another to actually care about this person to remember this person sitting across fromn you is a human being who has made a mistake. As long as you continue to see all SOs as hopeless then the longer you put actual human lives at risk. People without hope just want to take the path of least resistance. Hopeless people won't go the extra mile, won't extend a hand, take a leap of faith. I'm fortunate I found people who don't see me that way. I haven't disappointed them. The only one I'll disappoint is you since I'm breaking the hopeless SO mold you have tried to put us all in.
The Fallen One
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Thread
136445, JakeLF, Jun 23, 2004 06:40 AM [Its really hard]
136466, deadmomwalking, Jun 23, 2004 07:29 PM
136477, myoung, Jun 24, 2004 01:36 AM [it saddens me]
136528, JakeLF, Jun 25, 2004 04:29 AM [Thanks for the response]
136551, myoung, Jun 25, 2004 04:10 PM [Jake]
136558, dp1, Jun 25, 2004 11:22 PM [Jake]
136508, dp1, Jun 24, 2004 01:31 PM
136688, fallenone, Jun 28, 2004 07:34 PM [Therapy doesn't cut it.]
136701, dp1, Jun 29, 2004 02:52 AM [Listen to What you're Saying]
136703, steve, Jun 29, 2004 03:17 AM
136722, fallenone, Jun 29, 2004 05:10 PM [An unDePendable assessment]
136725, dp1, Jun 29, 2004 06:29 PM [Beautiful]
136728, dp1, Jun 29, 2004 06:49 PM [Friendly Suggestion]
136781, fallenone, Jul 01, 2004 03:21 PM [Get over yourself]
136792, fallenone, Jul 01, 2004 06:27 PM
136854, dp1, Jul 03, 2004 11:17 AM [F1]
136873, fallenone, Jul 03, 2004 07:45 PM [You're trying too hard]
136887, dp1, Jul 04, 2004 04:31 AM [F1]
137004, fallenone, Jul 06, 2004 11:42 PM [reforming the...]
136739, myoung, Jun 29, 2004 08:41 PM [F1]
136740, steve, Jun 29, 2004 09:16 PM
136742, dp1, Jun 29, 2004 11:49 PM [MYoung]
136747, myoung, Jun 30, 2004 03:53 AM [absolutely dp1]
136751, dp1, Jun 30, 2004 04:57 AM [MYoung]
136775, myoung, Jul 01, 2004 12:53 PM [uh huh]
136783, fallenone, Jul 01, 2004 03:54 PM [Et tu, brute?]
136576, tryingtosurvive, Jun 26, 2004 01:25 PM [Cheer up Mate]
136581, deadmomwalking, Jun 26, 2004 05:28 PM [JAKE]
136620, tryingtosurvive, Jun 27, 2004 01:10 PM [Amen to DMW with some reservations.]
136634, dp1, Jun 27, 2004 09:36 PM [TTS]
136817, nolongerhomocidal, Jul 02, 2004 04:04 AM [what about just talking to your PO]
136831, dp1, Jul 02, 2004 02:00 PM [NLH]
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