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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): Have your children demonstrated
Message 171842
Posted by Valerie
on Jan 22, 2006 04:04 PM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
this is for those of you who's children have been sexually abused. I think this might be a harder question to ask than to answer..have your children shown any behaviors that you think are linked to their sexual abuse...with treatment, without treatment I am just curious if at some point you felt you might have had a moment of panic that your child was mirroring their abuse, and no not necessarily to another child, or did you pass it off as normal childhood behavior? I think that would be a tough call, lets face it depending on their age, children do all kinds of things. I know many of you have given horrific examples of depression, anger and some other symptoms due to the abuse, I was just wondering about this, and do you find yourselves looking for it?
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Message 171864 (In Reply to Message 171842)
Posted by Hannahsmom
on Jan 22, 2006 07:59 PM | Also by Hannahsmom
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I was watching my nephew for alittle over 2 months, he is a victim of sexual abuse. And YES he did show signs. People are always saying that a child 2 and 3 years old are to young to remember what was done to them, I'm here to tell you, from first hand experience that is Bull. It was like he was flirting with my husband to get attention, and posing himself in different positions for my husband to watch him touch on himself. He never did any thing when it was only me in the room, my husband had to be around, it was directed towards my husband, it was my husbands brother who did the abuse on his own son, and my husband and his brother do look alot alike. I feel the only way the child was getting attention from his father was during the abuse, so the child did what he thought was normal to get attention from his uncle. Maybe I am way off base, but I don't think so.
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Message 171870 (In Reply to Message 171864)
Posted by PVulcan
on Jan 22, 2006 09:03 PM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Hannah, you're not off base at all. Many many years ago I was involved with a case of a 4 y.o child that had experienced severe abuse from her father, then again abused by a 21 y.o babysitter. On the stand the 21 y.o said "She seduced him'" In an adult world, her actions would be considered seduction, BUT, obviously as a 4y.o it was not seduction. She was displaying a behavior that she had been 'taught'. Father and babysitter were convicted!
Unfortunately, about 1/2 the time a child will display blatant behaviors such as bed wetting, acting out etc. That's the scary part.
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Message 171946 (In Reply to Message 171842)
Posted by Quest
on Jan 23, 2006 11:44 PM | Also by Quest
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Minnesota,
Country: United States |
My niece was always really clingy with me. I showed her almost zero attention and could never understandwhy she followed me around worshipping me. I sucked as an uncle back then. ANyone's kids other than my own I didn't pay any mind too. But that was before the abuse. She was like that because her dad was a jerk and didn't ever come and see her. My sister was so aloof that the poor kid was starved for attention. And that is why she ended up across the street with the gang that abused her.
After the abuse I was back home visiting and my sister showed me her police interview transcripts and talked about the case in front of my niece who was about 7. I was not comfortable doing that in front of her so I kept tryin to get away. Later my niece jumped up in my lap and started doing strange lewd things. Right in the living room with the whole family about. I think she thought it was what she needed to do to get us to pay her some attention. From then on I wouldn't even sit down at my sisters house. It freaked me out and me and my family were not equipped to deal with that issue. It affected everyone and everyone wanted to forget that it happened.
It wasn't until recently (12 years later) that I finally understood it all. I feel really bad that she needed us so much and we did nothing but treat her like a forbidden zone. That guilt drives me in this field. Think I'm trying to pay my dues cuz I just ignored it back then.
The abuse gets into the child and the child is ashamed and confused about how to deal with adults. But the adults around the victim are often even more confused.
Thinking back to her climbing on my lap and doing that I still haven't a clue how you are supposed to handle that from a sexually abused child.
What should I have done?
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Message 171962 (In Reply to Message 171842)
Posted by Rachel
on Jan 24, 2006 02:41 AM | Also by Rachel
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
I remember my daughter being extremely aggressive in the months after the abuse was discovered. She took most of her anger out on her younger brother and older sister.
During the abuse she was very clingy towards me.
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Message 171963 (In Reply to Message 171842)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jan 24, 2006 02:48 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
The thing is many of the “signs” of abuse can be signs of other things as well, particularly if the child acts “in” (crying, eating disorders, depression, anxiety) instead of “out” (aggressive behavior, drugs, promiscuity, acting out sexually against others). My daughter was in therapy for 3 years before she disclosed the sexual abuse. Looking back on things, yes, it seems obvious, but it wasn’t obvious to me or her various therapists until she disclosed. There is mental illness in my husband’s family, so we thought that she had just got genetically “unlucky”.
Things we believe were related to the abuse:
-eating disorder. Obsession with their bodies is common among sexual abuse victims as part of worrying that there is something “wrong” with them that attracted the abuser. Anorexics may starve themselves to try and get rid breasts, hips etc. Children who were forced into oral sex refuse to eat or throw up because taking things into their mouth makes them feel “bad”. In my daughter’s case because the abuse began when her body was starting to change and because the abuser told her he couldn’t “help himself” because of her great “bod” she tried to starve it away.
-perfectionism and over-achieving. My daughter was already a little bit this way but after the abuse it became an obsession. I remember counting and she was in involved in over a dozen extra-curricular activities at one point, as well as obsessing about getting A+’s in all her courses. If she could be perfect in every thing she thought it might make up for her being “bad”. We tried but failed to get her to ease up on herself. She insisted that she had to do everything or “it just won’t work.” Now she says being so busy meant there was less opportunity for the molester to get his hands on her. She was too busy to ever visit.
-sexual anorexia. There was never any sexual acting out – I think this may be more common in young children, when they don’t understand what is happening. My daughter has never had any interest in sex or males. Until recently she refused to read book or see movies with any sexual content. She is completely uninterested in dating. She says she would like to have a gay boyfriend , because it would be nice to have a boyfriend, but she never wants to have sex.
-depression, suicide attempts – these became more frequent and severe after her disclosure. Again it seemed to be as a result of believing she was a worthless, bad person.
-cutting. There was only about 6 months when this was really bad and it was during the time she was having flashbacks and being constantly questioned about details of the abuse by police and her therapist. She could cut herself severely enough to practically disembowel herself and feel no pain, only release.
-anxiety, avoidance, hypervigilance. She began avoiding the daughter of the perp and would always try and find an excuse not to come when the two families got together. At the time I thought it was because she didn’t like being with the daughter (her friend). For years she would refuse to answer the phone or the door. She was terrified of going to school and would sometimes be throwing up just out of anxiety (we used to carpool with the perp’s family and he would sometimes pick her up after school.) She spent a lot of time hiding in her room. She also imagined everyone hated her and was talking about her.
-shame. All of her therapists noticed this feeling of guilt and shame but nobody could figure out what it was she was so ashamed of, because she would always be very vague and say she felt ashamed or guilty because she was “such a horrible disgusting person”.
-clinginess. At times she seemed afraid of being out of my sight, which was pretty unusual behavior for a 15 year old. She would climb into my lap and cry. As she had shrunk herself down to the size of an 8 year old she wasn’t a big weight but I admit I’m not sure whether my cradling of her at these times was appropriate. She wasn’t a baby but sometimes it felt like she was.
-dissociation – she would have trouble remembering events that were troubling to her (even unrelated to the abuse). When under a lot of stress she would just “zone out” and later wouldn’t remember what happened. Disturbingly when she was living in the woman’s shelter she would go walk-about in the middle of the night and find herself miles away with no memory of how she got there.
Other things like her psychosis, paranoia, subsequent sexual assault, memory loss, inability to concentrate are not clearly related to the abuse and may have been more related to her treatment and her self abuse , eg., the cornucopia of drugs they forced on her in hospital, the “therapy” aimed at recovering detailed memories of the abuse, living in a woman’s shelter and being threatened there and witnessing frightening, bizarre and dangerous behavior from other residents, eg. physical violence, drug abuse, prostitution (including prostitution of their own children), threats on her life, etc.
I think the anxiety aspect of things probably comes naturally and would have been there regardless of the abuse. It was just much more extreme because of it.
After a nightmarish 5 years, I am pleased to report that my daughter does seem to be finally doing better. She has her own apartment (we help out with rent) and a part-time job. She is dancing again and playing the violin. Her weight is up to a tolerable level. She is still 20-25 lbs underweight but at least it’s not 50. Her eating disorder is still there – she always resorts back to it when she is really stressed – but it’s not the main thing on her mind right now. Overall, she seems happy most of the time, although she does have mood swings. If she gets overtired or doesn't eat for awhile she gets weepy - but she insists she never thinks about suicide or self-harm (other than starving herself) any more. She hasn’t completed high school yet but I’ve told her as it is something that stresses her out she should just leave it on a back burner until she is really healthy. She has re-established relationships with family and some old friends. She comes home frequently but is still afraid to go outside in our town.
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Message 171967 (In Reply to Message 171946)
Posted by Valerie
on Jan 24, 2006 03:11 AM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
At that point in time, I think the majority of people think if you dont focus on it or ignore it, it will go away in the kids head....we have seen that it doesnt....Me I am no doctor, but I would have said and reacted as if it was not acceptable behavior, we dont do this, if you want to talk about it ...OK but we do not do these things and I dont like it when you do it to me...thats what teaching boundaries are all about...
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Message 171981 (In Reply to Message 171946)
Posted by PVulcan
on Jan 24, 2006 04:21 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
If you felt uncomfortable discussing the police report, then you might have wanted to voice that concern with something like "Maybe we can talk about this privately another time?" I wonder how that child felt with that being discussed? I bet the conversation was happening, yet she was 'invisible' right? There is nothing the matter with a niece sitting on her uncle's lap! My 7 y.o niece sits on my lap and my hubby's lap, it's called love. I bet the men here such as Orolan and Dadof5 's daugthers cuddle with them, not everything is sexual. You said she did lewd and strange behaviour...like what? You can offer this child attention, but YOU have to have boundaries, and they have to be clear. Just as the discomfort you experienced with the police report, you have to be able to speak up and set those boundaries. How could you have done things different? Well, you could beat yourself up about that, hindsight is wonderful isn't it. I would just say, as she is 12 now, just be there for her. Let her know that you are there for her and you love her, and you are proud to be her Uncle.
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Message 172008 (In Reply to Message 171963)
Mom
Posted by PVulcan
on Jan 24, 2006 05:33 PM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I'm glad to hear that your daughter is doing better. I couldn't imagine in my wildest what this has been like for her and for you! The impact of sexual violence is hellacious. Hang in there, take good care of you. :)
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Message 172015 (In Reply to Message 171967)
Posted by Quest
on Jan 24, 2006 05:53 PM | Also by Quest
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Minnesota,
Country: United States |
If I could go back to then as I am now with what I know I would have done things better. What I did back then and what my family and LE did was ignorant and callous. We didn't behave that way because we weren't good people we were just people who had never dealt with kind of thing before. I'm trying to make it up to her and my great nieces and nephews by finally getting to know them all and taking part.
Never the less I give myself frequent ass-kickings for not stepping up to the plate sooner.
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Message 172016 (In Reply to Message 171981)
Posted by Quest
on Jan 24, 2006 06:06 PM | Also by Quest
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Minnesota,
Country: United States |
Actually she is 22 now and asked me to help her put this guy away. It was only after finally bringing the subject up with her after my forum addiction set in.
She actually was masturbating on me and I was not equipped to deal with that conversation then or probably now in that family setting. The thing is that this reaction amazed me. It demonstrated to me how poweful and confusing sexual abuse is and how it affects the child's relationship with all males.
What I did do is pick her staright up like an old dishrag and set her on the floor with a pat on the head and I booked out to the yard and avoided her for the next ten years. I was ignorant and the family situation she had to endure was something I could not help. But can you imagine the affect of that kind rejection by males in a girls life has on how she attracts mates?
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Thread
171842, Valerie, Jan 22, 2006 04:04 PM
171864, Hannahsmom, Jan 22, 2006 07:59 PM
171870, PVulcan, Jan 22, 2006 09:03 PM
171946, Quest, Jan 23, 2006 11:44 PM
171967, Valerie, Jan 24, 2006 03:11 AM
172015, Quest, Jan 24, 2006 05:53 PM
171981, PVulcan, Jan 24, 2006 04:21 AM
172016, Quest, Jan 24, 2006 06:06 PM
171962, Rachel, Jan 24, 2006 02:41 AM
171963, deadmomwalking, Jan 24, 2006 02:48 AM
172008, PVulcan, Jan 24, 2006 05:33 PM [Mom]
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