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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): Banning and Silencing the Offenders - Thread now closed
Message 165078
Dehumanizing the SO's
Posted by Ruined
on Oct 20, 2005 06:54 AM | Also by Ruined
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I consider myself a victim of Sexual Crime. I consider my family to be victims of Sexual Crime.
I am a Registered Sex Offender. But, I am innocent. I am in a unique situation, as anybody who has read my threads, will know by now.
One partial file of child pornography was found on a work laptop I had picked up for a job. The file was an incomplete download of a picture. It had to be reconstructed by experts. It had never been viewed. Same Creation date/time as it's Modified date/time. After a full investigation was performed of everything I own, every site I ever visited, every email I ever sent, and every child I was ever near, there was no other evidence ever found.
It is documented that I am now a Sex Offender, due to one incomplete image that was stopped in mid-download, and had never been viewed, on a laptop I do not even own.
I feel that I would not be in the situation I am in, if it wasn't for true Sexual Predators. Obviously, there wouldn't be such a need to make examples, and dish out harsh punishment.
I write this explanation so both sides will understand that I do have a personal understanding of your situations before I go on.
The reason I am writing this thread, is because of responses I am seeing to SO's in the Victim's area.
I do not think that there is any need to have hurtfull responses from SO's posted in this forum. But, at the same time, I do not think that the fact that somebody is an SO should exclude them entirely.
The guys that are truly trying to do something negative are just going to find a way to create an alternate profile. Some of them will get nasty. Everybody gets upset, hurt, attacked or isolated, and it becomes something "sick" all over again. IMO.
All of the people in this site have taught me a lot.
I have learned TOO much about this entire horrible drama in recent months, and am seeing how truly terrible this situation is.
On one hand, there are the victims. I can only imagine the effects of sexual abuse on an adult or a minor. In my world, we never had anything like that happen. Nobody in my entire memory has ever suffered from Sexual Abuse. I was right there saying that all SO's should just be euthanized. Get rid of them.
But, in my world, we were all victimized by domestic violence and alcohol abuse. So, I do know the feelings of helplessness, pain, despair, anxiety and utter hopelessness.
My daughter will never know these feelings.
Unless they are generated by my unjust listing as an SO. And, you can bet that I will be fighting some of you people to the end on the totally indiscriminant manner that people are ending up on the registry. For such a far-reaching punishment, there must be some sane and thorough way to decide who will populate these websites.
Then again, some people should be on this thing forever and ever.
My worry, is that it seems our entire population is getting pumped up, and patted on the back any time somebody comes up with a new way of dehumanizing these people further.
It seems to be "funny" to run them out of their homes. Break up their lives. Get them to kill themselves. Take everything they will ever hope for.
It seems to be very "chic" to do this lately.
SO's that were innocent, are being taught to live like true SO's and despise the victims.
SO's that were no threat, are being taught to give up, and live like criminals.
SO's that were possibly threats, are going to give up on rehabilitation and any hope to change and reenter society. Society is now going to be The Enemy.
SO's that were truly threats and predators will embrace this hatred of them, give up on any belief that sanity or law even exists, and find new levels of despair, isolation and fury.
And, with all of these people, will drift a steady flow of family and friends being torn apart a day at a time.
In this forum, I see a lot of talk concerning banning, excluding and even removal of these people from communicating their thoughts and opinions.
Again, there is no need or room for harmful or hurtful sentiments coming from SO's. Personally, I can't imagine why they would even enter the Victim's room. It seems to me that it would be a brutal, non-stop assult on an SO, and a never ending parade of guilt for a person that has truly victimized somebody. But, that's just me.
But, maybe they are in here because the victim in them is reaching out. They are drawn in here because of the need to gain support, but end up feeling angry instead. Again, I leave that to you smart people. I have no idea.
Here is the problem: from what I learned, mostly in here, a ton of these guys were victimized themselves. Right?
A lot of these people were "taught" this somewhere. They were made crazy, twisted, yada, yada, yada... by "somebody".
Yeah, we all have take responsibility for what we do. I agree.
Now this is the scarey part: If everything the "Experts" are saying is true, many people that are victims today, will possibly offend tomorrow. If I am wrong, please tell me. I am only stating what I have found in my research.
The facts indicate that these poor kids could end up caught in the cycle.
If that begins happening, (and I have read that it is happening already), the consequences of these legal decisions may truly come back to bite us.
And, I can tell you from experience, that it has taken a lifetime of mistakes, guilt and years of help for me to make sure I did not turn into the same violent father that my dad was. It was not easy. I am guessing that sexual abuse will yield the same fruits.
Yes, I would put a gun to anybody that ever touched my little girl.
But, now, after all this, I am forced to look at these people and see differences. They aren't all predators. But, a lot may be. They aren't all after kids. But, some are. They aren't all even guilty. But, a lot are.
The point is, they are individuals, with individual stories, deserving individual punishment and treatment.
Most of them are in mental and emotional agony, and have been for their entire lives. Just like the kids and adults that are vicitims today.
Once upon a time, they were sons and daughters. In another 5 or 10 years it could be OUR sons and daughters on these websites.
I say to myself, "Well, if my son ever commited one of these crimes, I would want him to be punished, fixed, changed. But, I am not so sure I would want his entire life, and any chance of redemtion or healing to be denied to him."
It's called "hope", and I don't think it should be taken from anybody, unless an ENORMOUS amount of thought and consideration goes into the process.
I look ahead, and I think this is all going to end very badly.
My daughter is my world.
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Message 165102 (In Reply to Message 165078)
Posted by steve
on Oct 20, 2005 02:39 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Ruined, thanks for sharing your views. I read your whole post and I've read your past posts, but for brevity I'm going to quote snippets of your current post.
I consider my family to be victims of Sexual Crime. I am a Registered Sex Offender. But, I am innocent.
Some sex offenders are also victims. Some convicted of sex crimes aren't guilty of the heinous crimes most despise, some made a small one-time error in judgment and some aren't guilty. Some of us where more than hat and some of us don't fit under neat stereotypes. As I see it below are the main issues that people are concerned about.
1. Some victims might find it offensive and/or triggering to have certain types of people respond to them when discussing victim issues, namely pedophiles, sex offenders and their supporters.
2. It hasn't been clear that people such as those described above are not all prohibited from posting in this forum.
3. When someone visits this forum and reads a post by a pedophile, sex offender, etc. there is no indication that person is such before reading the post and by and large it's not clear by reading the full text of the post and is often not even clear by reading several past posts of the user or the user's optional bio in their profile.
4. Some pedophiles, sex offenders, etc. were victims and/or have insights that they feel could be relevant to a discussion in this forum.
Let's not forget in the physical world, most victims would probably not be comfortable participating in a victims group that had sex offenders and pedophiles in it and would probably chose not to participate in such a group. This forum should acknowledge and address that. Sure, some might welcome such people, at least some of the time, but the greater good has to be weighed, and based on my observations, users of this forum should be given fair notice that such people may participate and should be given the opportunity to say that they don't want such people to participate in a discussion they start. I've attempted to address #1 and #2 above by adding a note that's displayed when starting a thread or replying in this forum. I am still planning on adding a note to the main forum page and on all individual post pages as well.
#3 still needs to be addressed. I am considering either requiring pedophiles, sex offenders, etc. to disclose that they are such in their bio. in their profile or at the top of any post in this forum (that would get tedious).
#4 is a tough one. If a pedophile, offender, etc. wants to post here to have their own victim issues addressed or wants to respond because they have relevant insights I think that can be productive and appropriate, but it's also appropriate that their status be disclosed and that if a thread starter doesn't want to hear from such people, even though they are a victim, that is respected. And don't lose sight of the fact that there is a forum here for pedophiles, offenders, etc. and it's appropriate for such people to post their victim issues there and get support and advice from other pedophiles, offenders, loved ones, etc. that have been through it or can help, as well as others who post appropriately.
I do not think that there is any need to have hurtfull responses from SO's posted in this forum. But, at the same time, I do not think that the fact that somebody is an SO should exclude them entirely.
There isn't going to be an outright across the board ban of a class of people, but if current and future controls aren't sufficient all options will be considered.
The guys that are truly trying to do something negative are just going to find a way to create an alternate profile. Some of them will get nasty.
True, some will try. It's happened in the past. In fact, the first major case of it, a pedophile who created supporters was caught by me rather quickly and was a major reason for implementing a user registration process in 2003. If someone creates a second persona and posts inappropriate posts in this forum, hopefully moderation will catch that most of the time and users will help out by contacting me when something is missed.
There's no magic solution and no way to make everyone happy. If I have to make a decision that benefits one group while having a negative impact on another, that's something I may have to do.
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Message 165116 (In Reply to Message 165078)
Posted by Ruined
on Oct 20, 2005 05:26 PM | Also by Ruined
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Thanks Steve.
I guess what I was trying to do, was get people thinking. That's all.
If there is a way to accomplish the goals you listed in your post, by all means, please do!
I just want to point out, to all sides, that no matter what we are feeling, or what horrors have occurred, the fact is that we are dealing with people here.
I hope I didn't write anything that caused too much discomfort to anybody. If I have, please forgive me.
I just have a lot of questions, a lot of opinions and a lot of sorrow, and I am trying to sort this all out by myself.
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Message 165203 (In Reply to Message 165116)
Posted by Hannahsmom
on Oct 21, 2005 08:38 PM | Also by Hannahsmom
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I agree with you on alot of levels. I just don't have any answers. I think your post was respectful to all sides.
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Message 165273 (In Reply to Message 165078)
You must get your story ito wder circulation......
Posted by victorialondon
on Oct 22, 2005 06:06 PM | Also by victorialondon
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United Kingdom |
Dear Ruined,
Yours is a very heartrending story,thaks for sharing it.
But just posting here isn't good enought,you must get your story(without your name)into wider circulation.You must go to the journalists ,legislators,and campaigners for "Megan's" law,and you must write,write,write,and E mail,E mail,E mail.
Whenever the controversey arrives,you must be in there to tell them.
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Message 165275 (In Reply to Message 165078)
Posted by orolan
on Oct 22, 2005 06:48 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
An excellent post, Ruined.
I for one generally just read what is posted in this forum without ever responding. In some 4,000 posts I might have 40 in here over the years.
Thing is, when I see a "victim" who appears not to be a victim at all but perhaps a person seeking attention, I speak out. Fact is, there are people out there that claim to be victims who are not. There are people who use the sex offender hysteria to further their own misguided agendas. These people detract and take away from the true issues. I would think the victims and their advocates would be the first to jump on these people. But they don't. They just ignore them until I say something and THEN they're all over the thread. Take a look at the activity. This forum is dead until something happens like me calling a spade a spade (btw jcami never once said she was a victim or a parent of a victim and never asked for any victim-related help. Perhaps her thread should have been moved to the General Forum to start with as it had nothing at all to do with victim issues?). Anyway, suddenly there's a bunch of activity. But it's not posts to help victims. It's post to once again talk about banning RSOs from this forum. Heck, sometimes I think if RSOs never posted here NOBODY ever would. Victims post and it takes three and four days for someone to respond. Ask jenclink(spelling?).
Anyway, as I told Steve I won't respond here to posts by victims. But I won't be silenced.
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Message 165278 (In Reply to Message 165275)
Posted by Ruined
on Oct 22, 2005 07:36 PM | Also by Ruined
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Orolan,
It is only natural that there be a lot of anger here.
For offenders that are innocent, or just frustrated, there is an overwhelming urge to vent.
For victims, or people close to victims, there will be a desire for vengence.
Again, we have to remember that we are all just a bunch of hurt people.
Maybe a lot of victims don't post because they have their own issues with what happened to them. Maybe they are scared, embarassed, ashamed, or just in too much pain to interact with other people yet. Let alone interact with offenders.
I could easily understand that.
So, we have to show some sensitivity to them.
I agree with a lot of what you said, except on one point.
We have to be very careful about stating that many people calling themselves victims are actually just looking for attention, or have other sick motives.
That is what we are fighting against. We hate the fact that non-offenders are making assumptions about our stories, our pasts and our motives.
We can't be lured into that way of thinking. We are all individuals, and the entire point i have been trying to make, over and over, is that we all have our own stories. Some are valid, some are sick.
It is impossible to get this information at a glance.
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Message 165279 (In Reply to Message 165078)
Posted by Valerie
on Oct 22, 2005 07:38 PM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Orolan quit pattin yourself on the back for Christ sake...your another wanna be bully ...who resents any and everything that doesnt fly with your self serving ideas....Layoff the victims...your perverted sense of justice is of no value to persons in pain...you have openly demonstrated that your RSO status puts you at odds with the world...do what you do best, bury yourself in your stats and leave true empathy to someone else....your no good at it...unless of course its to an offender...then you can kick the world and all its inhabitants all day long, somewhere else.
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Message 165308 (In Reply to Message 165279)
Posted by orolan
on Oct 23, 2005 02:18 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I don't bully victims. Show me where I did that.
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Message 165325 (In Reply to Message 165078)
Posted by Valerie
on Oct 23, 2005 03:40 PM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Get one of those Margarita's, a comfortable chair and look up "also by Oralon" that should keep you busy...
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Message 165347 (In Reply to Message 165308)
orlon and valerie
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 23, 2005 08:13 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
ok, i am putting my opinion in here. val's right in one aspect, don't pat yourself on your back. you do tend to attack people. yes, they may not be victims themselves, but they may be siblings, parents grandparents, etc of one. And you did attack jcami. However, Val, in all defense of orlon, which Everyone knows that orlon and me have problems, he did apologize in a very lengthy post to her. Openly, not in a private message. That made me change my opinion of orlon, some. please understand i am not on anyones side here. but i am simply stating what i saw.
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Message 165388 (In Reply to Message 165078)
Thread now closed
Posted by steve
on Oct 24, 2005 04:30 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
This thread is now closed. I am replying to the first post of the thread for convenience. Until I say otherwise, no posts about who should be allowed to post in this forum will be permitted. Anyone who violates this request will receive a single friendly reminder from me. A second violation will result in being banned from the forums for a period of time. If I see a post that violates my request, I will reject it. If you see one that I missed, contact me privately, I will deal with it, and I encourage you to point the poster to this post of mine.
Thanks for your cooperation.
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Thread
165078, Ruined, Oct 20, 2005 06:54 AM [Dehumanizing the SO's]
165102, steve, Oct 20, 2005 02:39 PM
165116, Ruined, Oct 20, 2005 05:26 PM
165203, Hannahsmom, Oct 21, 2005 08:38 PM
165273, victorialondon, Oct 22, 2005 06:06 PM [You must get your story ito wder circul...]
165275, orolan, Oct 22, 2005 06:48 PM
165278, Ruined, Oct 22, 2005 07:36 PM
165279, Valerie, Oct 22, 2005 07:38 PM
165308, orolan, Oct 23, 2005 02:18 PM
165347, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 23, 2005 08:13 PM [orlon and valerie]
165325, Valerie, Oct 23, 2005 03:40 PM
165388, steve, Oct 24, 2005 04:30 PM [Thread now closed]
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