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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): Confused Friend - Repressed Memories
Message 164033
Posted by transparent
on Oct 10, 2005 06:37 AM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 18 - 20,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I have a friend who has been having trouble deciding some things lately. She is currently 17 years old and was sexually abused by her 16 or so year old brother when she was 8...or so. She doesn't remember details on ages but the brother was at least 15 or 16 at the time. It's been at least 9 years since it happened.
We were wondering what would be the best route to take on this (until recently she had been trying to keep everything behind her but is now finding it hard to face her brother and is not sure if she wants to press charges or something,,,resentment is starting to hit her hard against him.) It's difficult because I'm actually the only person who knows, not even their parents know. I assume legal action can still be taken against him even though he's no longer a minor? Would he be charged as a minor or how would all that work. At the moment he has no legal record of abuse and I think no other legal record...other than the horrible secret he's pretty normal.
How might she/we go about all this, including maybe how she'd break it to her parents/authorities (she's not even sure she wants to, this is just for information to help her along).
Thanks for any help anyone can help with this situation. Any kind of info would help us a lot.
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Message 164072 (In Reply to Message 164033)
Posted by steve
on Oct 10, 2005 03:57 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
It's important to find out what the statute of limitations are in this case. For that, we need to know the state where it took place, the state she lives in now (if different), her current age in years and months and the number of years and months since the last act of abuse took place.
After the above issue is addressed, we can discuss possible steps and other related issues.
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Message 164096 (In Reply to Message 164072)
Posted by transparent
on Oct 10, 2005 06:46 PM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 18 - 20,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
It took place in Idaho, which is where she still lives but he's currently in Washington. Her current age is 17 and 8 months. And it has been approximately 7-9 years since the last act of abuse took place...she's not sure when it ended exactly, there were some issues with memory repression involved.
Thank you for the reply.
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Message 164128 (In Reply to Message 164096)
Posted by transparent
on Oct 11, 2005 04:45 AM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 18 - 20,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
more info has just been given to me...she was about 4 the first time and about 11 the last time it happened...so he was 13 at first and the last time it happened he was 20...so it happened over a span of before the law kicks in (from what I understand) through after he became an adult, obviously being very illegal. again, he's 25 now and she's 17. thanks for any advice u can give.
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Message 164135 (In Reply to Message 164096)
evidence ?
Posted by polykenos
on Oct 11, 2005 05:52 AM | Also by polykenos
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: New Mexico,
Country: United States |
What kind of evidence does she have? That would be a deciding factor for me. I dont see what she stands to gain, if all she has is her word against his.
Has she ever confronted her brother about it? or is it never talked about?
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Message 164144 (In Reply to Message 164096)
Posted by dp1
on Oct 11, 2005 08:24 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Hi transparent and welcome to the forum. May I ask if she's involved in couseling at this time?
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Message 164166 (In Reply to Message 164144)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 11, 2005 05:25 PM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
yes, treatment would probably be the most important thing for starters. even if she tries to "put it behind her", the trauma will still live on and may get worse. finding it difficult to interact with her brother is an example. that difficulty interacting may progress to difficulty interacting with other people. acting out in inappropriate ways is another way that a victim sometimes copes with unresolved issues like sexual assault. also, treatment does not have to include the cooperation of the offender, though in most cases it seems to be beneficial to recovery if the offender admits, is held accountable and clarifies his offense. so, in my opinion, treatment can help tremendously.
as for reporting, i don't know so much about the leagl side, but from my perspective, what is the right thing to do? you stated that he seems pretty normal. well, sex offenders are masters at pretending to be "normal", while harboring many secrets. sex offenders often groom their victims into silence. so's very often lead very secretive double lives. if he has that long of a history or sexual assault, it is very possible he is still offending. if he's still offending then someone is in great jeopardy. to me, the right thing to do is stop the victimization of anyone else and force him, if possible, to be held responsible for what he has done. but the wishes of your friend are what is most important. she deserves to have power and choice over her own life.
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Message 164167 (In Reply to Message 164128)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Oct 11, 2005 05:34 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
A lot of folks in LE are increasingly suspicious of "repressed memory" and your friend may face obstacles she hasn't fully visualized, including the skepticism of many, many people.
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Message 164238 (In Reply to Message 164033)
counseling
Posted by kids1st
on Oct 12, 2005 06:12 AM | Also by kids1st
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Alabama,
Country: United States |
Hi, Transparent. I would suggest some sort of counseling for starters. But she needs to be absolutely honest with her counselor. A counseler could also maybe help her to tell her parents if she decides too. But keeping it a secret is a dangerous way to go. That is how sex offenders molest hundreds of children before they are caught. Her secrecy may be putting other children in danger. But I would definitely go into some counseling first and then maybe she can decide which route she wants to take. Also, in some states, there is a law that lets a victim press charges against someone when they become of age.
Example- child molested at age 10
- no charges brought against molester
- child turns 18 or 21(I don't know which age is appropriate)
- victim has a statute of limitation in which to now file charges.
I am not sure how many states have this, but I do know that some do. That may be something to check into.
Good luck to you and your friend.
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Message 164239 (In Reply to Message 164166)
Posted by transparent
on Oct 12, 2005 06:16 AM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I agree that it might be difficult to prove that it happened because technically it's her word against his, as far as I know. She has never confronted him about it and yes she's trying to put it behind her and because of that it's been very difficult for her. Until I came along (I'm her first boyfriend actually) she had never been able to trust anyone in any way.
I am going to suggest counceling or something, do any of you have suggestions on how to find cheap/free anonymous counceling?
If it is just her word against his, who would the law side with, or how would all that work out? I personally am the kind of person who wants him to be punished but she seems more toward the idea of just getting past it as much as possible and doing what she can to not confront him anymore.
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Message 164286 (In Reply to Message 164239)
Posted by oicu812
on Oct 12, 2005 02:39 PM | Also by oicu812
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
LE is not supposed to side with anyone. they only investigate and try to find facts to either warrant an arrest or not. right dp1, dtc? if an arrest is made she might be eligible for dss victim intervention or some sort of victim services treatment, or funds for outside treatment.
if you have something like victims services in your area, that might be a good place to start. but with treatment of sexual assault victims cheap might be disasterous later on. i'm not saying that expensive is better, but i do think regardless of cost you will be money ahead by doing your best to find the best treatment team. she will benefit more and have a better chance for a really good quality life. that's what you want for her, right? all victim treatment is confidential, really! it is law!
can i suggest one thing that you be very careful of? be careful not to direct or coerce or tell her to do anything concerning these issues. man, that can really trigger some awful responses that can cause her some real emotional distress. give her the information, the contacts, the ideas you gathered.. but let her choose what to do with it. i think that is mucho important.
best of luck to both of you.
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Message 164306 (In Reply to Message 164239)
transparent
Posted by PVulcan
on Oct 12, 2005 03:58 PM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I certainly understand your anger and frustration about what happened to your g/f but it's really important that you are not putting pressure on her to make decisions that she is not willing to make right now. The healing process is about regaining a sense of empowerment and control back to your life. This can't be done when loved ones are pressuring them. I understand that you want justice, however at this time it sounds like she needs to start at the beginning, at that would be going to a therapist. Applying pressure only creates more guilt and shame. I think it's great that you are doing some research in order to help her, but present all the information you gather as 'options', not as what 'she NEEDS to do'. Does that make sense? Good luck.
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Message 164311 (In Reply to Message 164239)
Counseling Source
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 12, 2005 04:18 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Universities that teach psychology are a great source for affordable counseling.
Trainees and Interns need hours to get licensed.
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Message 164360 (In Reply to Message 164286)
Posted by dp1
on Oct 13, 2005 01:04 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Great advice. Yes, many cities have victim services who work for the DA's office. The police usually hand out pamphlets with phone numbers for victims to call for help. Heck, I do yahoo searches under yellow pages all the time and get all sorts of resources for referals. Some counseling centers are more bible based if that's her cup of tea. Most either take insurance or work on a sliding scale. If really is worth it to get the support.
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Message 164385 (In Reply to Message 164238)
Posted by transparent
on Oct 13, 2005 03:48 AM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
thank you to all who have replied, you've helped me a lot. and yes, from the beginning I have taken a very strong approach of it being her decision. I've been giving her ideas, I believe she plans to tell her parents tomarrow in fact, she wants me to be there because the hardest part for her is getting the words out, so would it be a good idea for me to say some of it? Sounds like that'd be the only way that it all can be told.
I suggested counceling to her briefly today and she really didn't like the idea, she doesn't think it can help, despite my mention of how much it helped me when I was having issues and had become a cutter...long story. But yes I agree that keeping it quiet can be dangerous and I never even thought of him doing it again but I suppose that's certainly possible and a very unwanted situation.
I just hope for all this to work out, and with the help of me and her parents and maybe councelors, there's a chance, if carried out delicately. As for now I guess I'll see what she wants to do tomarrow about it, she wants to tell them tomarrow especially because her parents want to drag her along to go visit her brothers in Seattle this weekend and she really doesn't want to go, for obvious reasons. But unless she tells them this truth there's nothing she can do to get out of it.
Thanks for the advice and any more you may post. I'll try to keep posted here on what happens to progress.
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Message 164395 (In Reply to Message 164239)
Posted by polykenos
on Oct 13, 2005 06:38 AM | Also by polykenos
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: New Mexico,
Country: United States |
If it is just her word against his, who would the law side with, or how would all that work out? I personally am the kind of person who wants him to be punished
I would want him punished also, but that can't happen without some sort of evidence.
but she seems more toward the idea of just getting past it as much as possible and doing what she can to not confront him anymore.
you just said that she hasnt confronted him, what do you mean confront? Is he even aware of how its effecting her?
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Message 164441 (In Reply to Message 164395)
Posted by transparent
on Oct 13, 2005 05:12 PM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
you just said that she hasnt confronted him, what do you mean confront? Is he even aware of how its effecting her?
she hasn't seen him in a while, not sure how long exactly. when I said confront it included just having to see him, which will have to happen if she goes on the trip with her parents to see him that I mentioned. And no it sounds like he has no idea it ever really effected her at all. When he left for college they kind of went their separate ways, I'm guessing it would have kept happening if he hadn't've left, he was 20 when it ended.
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Message 164523 (In Reply to Message 164385)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Oct 14, 2005 10:53 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Proceed with caution. I would encourage your friend to see a counsellor but it is often hard to find one who is experienced at this and good. On the other hand, if your friend does not want to see a counsellor she may not be ready to disclose yet. Because of her age the police WILL become involved if she discloses the incest to a counsellor.
I just want to reiterate that your friend needs to go at this at her own speed. When my daughter disclosed police, social workers, therapists descended like an army with one agenda: the perpetrator has to be brought to justice. That's what we thought too, although our daughter's health was our first priority. Nothing came of the criminal charges in the end as my daughter became too ill to continue and in any case it was basically her word against his. The aftermath of disclosure was disastrous for my daughter who felt as if she had brought the world down around us.
She was questioned repeatedly by the police about things she only had broken and uncertain memories of. The therapist she was seeing conducting EMDR therapy while consulting the manual, they pumped her full of various drugs, one psychiatrist actually told her that she should keep a razor blade and bandages next to her bed so when she had the urge to cut she didn't use something worse. Because she was too suicidal for the hospital to handle (I kid you not, they said they were releasing her because they couldn't keep her safe) and we demanded they find some appropriate longer term care, they released her to a women's shelter where she was allowed to abuse medications, wander the streets hallucinating in the middle of the night(because she had to be "empowered") , and told she was an incest victim in denial.
On the other hand she couldn't have kept the secret any longer - it was killing her. Looking back on things I am not sure what we exactly we should have done differently. Once the disclosure was made things were basically out of our hands and hers.
I don't think you should help her by telling her story. This doesn't help. I know because I did it to my daughter. Let her tell things in her own way in her own speed. She may not want to tell everything at once and she may minimize what happened. Let her. Also because this happened when she was quite young she may not recall things accurately. She will be confused and extremely vulnerable to suggestion. I know that I can't remember accurately what happened yesterday and yet we expect victims to remember things without any inconsistencies. You are assuming that her parents will help her. However, if she confronts her parents they will most likely not believe her. They will think that either she is making it up for some reason or that she has imagined it. At least initially. You can't really blame them for this. He is their son after all. It will be a great shock to them. She has to be prepared for this.
The aftermath of disclosure is no picnic. Especially when it involves family members. You should read the posts by momto2girls to get an idea of what can happen. A lot of things are going to happen that your girlfriend may not be prepared for. The best thing you can do is just be supportive, but neutral about the best course of action. If she is going to disclose this she needs a strong support system outside of her immediate family. Is their another family member or adult friend she is close to and can confide in - an aunt perhaps?
Because her memories have been repressed things are more complicated. When memories are "repressed" or "recovered" there is always the chance that they are not true or that they are distorted. This doesn't make them any less "real" for the person who has them. It is why it is very important that she be allowed to proceed at her own pace and not forced into remembering things. It is important that whatever counsellor she has not pressure her to remember more or "suggest" things to her. The results of bad counselling can do more harm than the abuse itself. There is also always the remote but real possibility that she has made up or exaggerated her claims. I strongly believe it is important to support and believe your girlfriend, however you must realize that other people will be considering these possibilities.
I know it sounds as if I am being negative about disclosure. I am not. I think it is very important that these ugly secrets come to light. It is the only way that abuse can be stopped. However disclosure comes with traumas of its own and your girlfriend needs to be aware of this and choose a time when she is strong. I think it is wonderful that you are supporting your friend but don't take it all on yourself. It wouldn't hurt for you to see a counsellor to talk about this with. Good luck.
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Message 164549 (In Reply to Message 164523)
Posted by transparent
on Oct 14, 2005 08:01 PM | Also by transparent
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
thank you very much for you response. An update on the situation that I can give you...
We were planning on confronting her parents last night after I got off work, it was all her idea, as you all have suggested and as I have always done, I've left all decisions to her. I mostly suggest ideas that might be possible, including how to get the truth out and I even suggested she not tell them everything if she's not ready to. Well by the time I got off work she called me and let me know that she had been speaking with her older sister that evening about it and told her the whole thing. Apparently the same thing happened to her sister as well (so her sister has been abused by their grandfather and their brother). Her sister is very supportive about all of this and they had a great chance to talk it all out. Later that evening her sister told their parents about everything, what happened to both of them and all that.
Fortunately their parents believed them completely and apologized for not knowing before, they said she didn't have to go on the trip.
Another great thing that has happened, again all without my involvement (which it's better that it was her sister then me, no matter how involved I was ready to be) is that they have both decided to get counceling together. I'm going to give them suggestions on who to go with, after a lot of research on councelors in the area. I'll also let her know to be cautious about the whole police involvement that you mentioned, due to her age.
As for a support system, the only two people in her life that she can now rely on are her sister and me. I'm glad she was able to talk to her sister, otherwise it'd just be me. Her parents have always been kind of standoffish and don't seem to understand any signs of depression (even when her mother found out about the cutting, all she did was take the knife she thought was being used, and left...with no more mention of it. Having been a cutter myself as well as being part of a family with a mom that watches Dr. Phil, I know she did not handle that well.)
As for now it's just going to be a waiting game, seeing how her parents handle their brother (she's almost positive they'll confront him, which could make things very awkward for their family, as you kind of mentioned). As for me, I'm going to be as supportive during this time as I possibly can. We both go to the same high school together, it's our Senior year. I care so much about her, I just hope things will even out a little here on out.
One more thing, since it seems that "her word against his" is a common problem with conviciting abusers, would it help that there are now two of them together that have had this problem and are going to handle things? They haven't yet considered any legal action, right now it sounds like counceling is going to be their focus, which I completely support. I was just wondering about it as a possibility for the future.
Thank you for all your responses and if anything else happens I'll try to update this thread.
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Message 164786 (In Reply to Message 164549)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Oct 17, 2005 04:09 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Wow. That certainly went a lot better than I would have predicted. I have talked to a lot of people who were victimized within the family and almost, universally, other family members either refused to believe them or tried to keep it quiet, at least initially. Her parents have a lot of credit coming to them, (unless perhaps they knew about it all along). Maybe he had already confessed to the parents. Maybe her brother will admit to it and offer to get counselling. Who knows? It's what victims always hope for when they disclose but it rarely works out that way.
It certainly helps that her sister can corroborate her story. It is a lot easier to dismiss one person's story as being a bad dream or a self-serving fabrication than two. I agree - counselling before police. While it might be good for the sisters to go together initially they should really each be taking their own journey here. Also, from the point of view of law enforcement it will seem a lot less like collaboration if they go separately.
I am very impressed by your maturity in all this. It's so rare it almost makes me wonder if you are real. However, I am going to assume you are and commend you for the support you've given and the good sense you've shown.
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Message 164829 (In Reply to Message 164167)
my opinion before i leave sight
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 17, 2005 03:53 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
there are a lot of people, which has been on 20/20 as well as other notable news shows that have not said anything because of the guilt that they carried. Just here recently, An amish girl spoke out against her brothers, years after what they did to her. Of course, she was shunned by her family. But she is working now, and they went to jail. You would think that being religious people they would be in the favor of the girl, but because she disgraced them by speaking about it, they shunned her. I would go to the attorney general of the state and tell him/her the story. being that young, there is no wonder that she tried to put it behind her. she was just a baby basically when it started.And anyone who is suspicious of anyone who may have repressed memories, maybe don't need to be doing the jobs they are doing. just my opinion
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Message 164831 (In Reply to Message 164167)
saintjimmy
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 17, 2005 04:06 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
saintjimmy,
your assinine remark regarding the repressed memory, made my mind up. i am not going anywhere. i am staying in the forum. How can you not expect a five year old not to repress those memories?
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Message 164855 (In Reply to Message 164829)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Oct 17, 2005 08:50 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
When it started is less important than when it ended. Almost any reputable mental health specialist will acknowledge that repressed memories do occur, but very infrequently, and that such claims need to be taken with not a grain, but a tablespoon of salt. As to the last remark, fortunately, you're not one of the people in charge of who does which LE jobs, nor are you liable to influence the opinions of those in the LE field when most of your information comes from daytime tv.
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Message 165022 (In Reply to Message 164855)
saintjimmy
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 19, 2005 07:09 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
i don't get any of my information from daytime tv. I get it from actual facts. from actual victims, who talk for the first time, to reputable newsmen. LOL!!! some of your comments are just to commical. you don't know me, but assume i watch daytime tv. hardly.
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Message 165097 (In Reply to Message 164855)
Repressed Memories
Posted by kids1st
on Oct 20, 2005 02:06 PM | Also by kids1st
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Alabama,
Country: United States |
Suppressed memories are something that happens a lot more than people think, even the mental health specialists. As more people come forward with their memories, we are learning that it occurs more than even the professionals are aware of. How can they make a statement like that when the people with the suppressed memories probably have not had any therapy, therefore, there is not sufficient data to make that claim.
Suppressing memories is a way that people deal with things (especially childhood sex abuse) because they do not know any other way to deal with it. And at the time, it seems that the best solution would be to supress the memory so that you don't have to deal with it.
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Thread
164033, transparent, Oct 10, 2005 06:37 AM
164072, steve, Oct 10, 2005 03:57 PM
164096, transparent, Oct 10, 2005 06:46 PM
164128, transparent, Oct 11, 2005 04:45 AM
164167, saintjimmy, Oct 11, 2005 05:34 PM
164829, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 17, 2005 03:53 PM [my opinion before i le...]
164855, saintjimmy, Oct 17, 2005 08:50 PM
165022, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 19, 2005 07:09 PM [saintjimmy]
165097, kids1st, Oct 20, 2005 02:06 PM [Repressed Memories]
164831, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 17, 2005 04:06 PM [saintjimmy]
164135, polykenos, Oct 11, 2005 05:52 AM [evidence ?]
164144, dp1, Oct 11, 2005 08:24 AM
164166, oicu812, Oct 11, 2005 05:25 PM
164239, transparent, Oct 12, 2005 06:16 AM
164286, oicu812, Oct 12, 2005 02:39 PM
164360, dp1, Oct 13, 2005 01:04 AM
164306, PVulcan, Oct 12, 2005 03:58 PM [transparent]
164311, Renunciation, Oct 12, 2005 04:18 PM [Counseling Source]
164395, polykenos, Oct 13, 2005 06:38 AM
164441, transparent, Oct 13, 2005 05:12 PM
164238, kids1st, Oct 12, 2005 06:12 AM [counseling]
164385, transparent, Oct 13, 2005 03:48 AM
164523, deadmomwalking, Oct 14, 2005 10:53 AM
164549, transparent, Oct 14, 2005 08:01 PM
164786, deadmomwalking, Oct 17, 2005 04:09 AM
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