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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): Do Victims and Offenders ever use this site to learn from each other? - navigatr1
Message 162903
Posted by Ruined
on Sep 28, 2005 06:39 AM | Also by Ruined
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Do Victims and Offenders ever use this site to communicate, understand and get closure from each other?
I am new here, and don't know how to classify myself. I just know that for better or for worse, I belong here now.
But, what I have seen recently, is thousands of people, victims and offenders, literally living in a kind of perpetual hell. It's almost like there is more at work here than just crime and punishment.
And, I'm not sure that Law Enforcement/Law Makers have all the best interests of the victims in mind. Or that Defense Lawyers and Doctors have the best interests in mind for offenders.
And, the worst part is that most people here, on both sides, are just extremely hurt people, wanting to understand why horrible things have happened in their lives. Why people have done horrible things to others. Or both.
And, I may be naive, but there may be a lot of answers floating around here. Answers that are practically sacred to both groups. Answers that I can't possibly see the professionals of either group caring about in the least.
It is terrible but there is a distinct possibility that people in charge of the management of these tragedies, may be doing nothing more than feeding on the pain of both groups. Rocketing careers, passing laws, defending the innocent, defending the guilty, overturning laws, analyzing the "sick", etc.
Or, I may be wrong.
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Message 162917 (In Reply to Message 162903)
Ruined
Posted by dp1
on Sep 28, 2005 02:21 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Great post. Yes the offenders and the victims communicate. We also have 'others' such as pedophiles that claim they never acted out or convicted of a crime, LE, POs, vigilanti's, parents, spouses, etc... etc... Since you are new and probably don't know who is who, you may want to click on the person's profile which may give more details. Or just PM someone and ask them.
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Message 162921 (In Reply to Message 162903)
Posted by orolan
on Sep 28, 2005 04:17 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Do Victims and Offenders ever use this site to communicate, understand and get closure from each other?
Absolutely. It's what sets this site apart from all others. Victims and offenders can and do 'talk' to each other in an effort to understand. Some don't care too much for the interaction, but that's their problem.
Stick around. There's a lot to learn here;-))
BTW so you don't get confused, I'm an RSO.
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Message 162950 (In Reply to Message 162903)
Posted by joy1234
on Sep 29, 2005 02:54 AM | Also by joy1234
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: New York,
Country: United States |
This was a great post and I do think this site is just about the best out there. What makes this site different than most is that it could be one of the first sites that really makes a difference in what happens in our futures. It is not one sided like most of the rest , you go on other sites and all you see is angry, vigilantie types who could really don't give a crap about anything other than being able to slam another human being because they think they are entitled to You do see that here sometimes but I don't think it is let go to far, which is a good thing. This site could open alot of eyes out there and maybe change that thought, that anyone convicted of a sex offense is a child molesting monster and needs to be shipped off to the far corners of the earth so everyone will be safe. It is a start in the right direction, people on both sides listening to each others feelings and ideas. Yes victims can help sex SO"s and SO"s can help victims, maybe for alot of victims at first it would be hard but as they heal they could reach out and venture to learn about the other side of the issues. You are right when you talk of the politicans and lawmakers, as a former victim I don't think they really give a rats behind about anyones children,just their own political gains. If they really want to stop sexual abuse then they have to have find meaningful ways to stop it instead of putting the country in a panic and alienating a whole group of people and their families. Anyhow I hope you can find some piece of mind here, I read your post from the Other Side, all I can tell you is keep your head up and don't ever give up. There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel.
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Message 162965 (In Reply to Message 162903)
Posted by rebel51
on Sep 29, 2005 09:56 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Do Victims and Offenders ever use this site to communicate, understand and get closure from each other?
In my opinion the answer to your question is a definite yes.
I was a victim 35-40 years ago and I still carry the baggage that goes with it.
This site and the people on it, not only other victims BUT the offenders AND the law enforcement who come here, helped me more than I can ever explain. In fact the one person who helped me the most is Silverthorn who seems to cause alot of controversy without even trying. Another is Orolan..then we have DP...and the list goes on....without this site I would never have met any of these people, without Steve I would not have even been polite to some of them! BUT because of this site and the way it is set up, I am a better person today AND I can get over SOME of my past.
If someone, 5 years ago, would have asked me to sit down and converse with a known child molester I would have asked with a snide voice "Can I take a gun and do I get 2 seconds alone with them??" Today I feel like I could not only sit and talk to them BUT it might even be mutually beneficial.
DONT get me wrong..this site did not make me accept child molesting as somehow ok or not as bad as I once thought or anything even similar, what it did was make me see myself differently..normal I guess would be the right word...it made me accept ME as ok and it has made me see that child molesters are people too...some of whom are worth saving. and in a smaller way it has made me a LITTLE less angry...
HEY!! I said a LITTLE didnt I??? lol
Which makes me thankful all by itself BECAUSE my Grandson gets a better deal with the happier new me.
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Message 163036 (In Reply to Message 162921)
Ruined
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 29, 2005 08:45 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
Yes they do talk to each other. And yes it does set this site apart from others. But, at the same time, some new people who do come to the forum have the victims forum who arent quite ready to have communication with offenders, pedophiles and such. They are just not ready. In time, when they are they will post. But when they first are ready to talk about what has happened to them, then they actually just want to talk to victims. And sometimes, sadly, people don't understand that. And that is their problem. But they do end up in time, coming out, if they feel that they can. It is that sometimes people have been so abused that they are just not ever going to be able to feel comfortable facing anyone that has commited any kind of offense. But this, let me tell you now, is my opinion. And believe me, its not a popular one.
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Message 163037 (In Reply to Message 162965)
just a thought
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 29, 2005 08:49 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
at any time, when a victim first joined the forum, did they not first want to just go to the victims forum because they were so angry or upset or even better yet ashamed of their feelings or what happened that they didn't feel like they could confront what was in the general forum, at first?
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Message 163086 (In Reply to Message 163037)
Posted by rebel51
on Sep 30, 2005 11:28 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
IMO only.....I feel that each and every person who comes in here, does so in thier own personal way. Some come in angry, some come in scared, some come in needing something, some come in numb, some come in bleeding, some in shock, some in horror, a few for a sounding board, some for a place to find someone like themselves, some who need to know why, some who need to know safety, some who need to know companionship or a friend, and the list goes on and on and on. BUT each and every person who comes in here finds something they need...even if they dont know what that was when they got here. They may not find all thier answers here BUT they will find a beginning to the end of thier pain. Here they can find sympathizers, they can find legal help, they can find someone to talk to, to tell how awful it was or is, they can find an inkling as to why it may have happened to begin with. Yes they will find the offenders here also BUT that is part of the healing too..learning how to deal with ALL the types of people in the world AND these are willing to talk to you and try to help you to understand WHY it may have happened in thier unique way of looking at life.
If the pain is so raw that you can not handle the things that Steve allows in this forum then you are not in the right place for you..you need to be in private counceling where there is NO way that you will be with a offender. HOWEVER if you can stick with it and keep talking even though it is hard to talk with an offender, you will..again IMO...be so much closer to healing than you were before you got here.
There is no shortage of places for victims to go..on the net or in the real world. This however is a place were we all can come together and as the post title says "learn from each other".
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Message 163102 (In Reply to Message 163086)
rebel51
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 30, 2005 03:14 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
rebel, i agree with all that you said. Please believe this. I am not disputing that point. But what if all they can do in the beginning is go to the victims forum, for example and talk to just victims? Would you not say that in that instant, for that person, its not a stepping stone? Its not a start? I agree there is alot to learn from others in this forum. But what if that is only the step that they can make, At First. Do you see where I am coming from? Maybe they can't come in the other forums because they do have anger, hurt and what ever else they may be feeling, and they need to just stir clear for a while, and being in the victims forum is what is helping them at the moment. Like i said, i am not wanting, and i do stress this, i am not arguing with what you said, i agree with it. but what if this is all they can emotionally handle at that time?
Is there anyone in here that can explain to me, for myself, why i am having nightmares, since my stepfather got out of jail? He isn't in my nightmares? My mother is! My daughter was the victim. My step-sister was a victim of Hurricane Rita, her own dad didn't care to stay home to see if she was ok. I am called to see how she would get in touch with FEMA, because i have history on it, sadly enough. But I have nightmare yesterday, needing my mother, and when i call her, she tells me, should have thought of that before. Now that is pretty messed up! wouldn't you agree. I have been having these dreams for over a month. I didn't post in the forum because there are 2 people, who i wont name, who think i am basically to blame for what happened to my daughter. Because my step dad touched me when i was in my middle 20's. Did i think he would touch my daughter who was only 15? NO! So see, people, are scared. I am opening myself now, for ridicule that i know will come. But, i am strong enough to take it. Do you think that others will be at first? I have had to deal with the guilt now for a year. It doesn't get any easier for me. especially when people love to point it out to me. I am just trying to show you how new people who come into the forum and may actually not be able to post in the general forum at first may feel. and that is my opinion, and i am not trying to argue, as you suggested earlier in one of your posts to me.
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Message 163142 (In Reply to Message 163102)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Oct 01, 2005 06:38 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
I hope this doesn't seem to you to be "blaming", as that is certainly not my intent. I don't even know all the details of your situation, having joined six weeks ago. But I do have to point out that in psychosexual terms, there is no difference between an adult man desiring a 15-year-old or the same man desiring a woman in her 20s. People assume that because a particular line has been drawn by the law, that that line has some basis in what we know about human nature; but in this case, it simply doesn't.
Perhaps if anything is to blame, it's the retrograde barbarism of our society's hypocritical sexual morality?
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Message 163146 (In Reply to Message 163102)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 01, 2005 11:48 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
I understand what you are saying and I do agree with what you are saying..there are some that are just not ready to deal with the offenders.
As to your question as to why you are having nightmares about your mother and not your stepfather...I dont know.
My personal guess and that is all that it is, a guess, because I have not one tiny drop of training!
My personal guess is...your step father lost anything that you may have felt towards him, one way or the other, years ago. However, your Mom's betrayal is brand new. You have not learned how to deal with the betrayal of your mother so you have pushed it as far down as you can and just try to live your daytime life as normal as possible. BUT when your stepdad got out of jail, he got to go home to mom and you feel like you cant anymore. The nightmares are just your minds way of being angry and letting you know that you do have to come to grips with how you feel about your mother and what you feel she has done to you during the daytime.
Ok that is my 2 cents worth..I hope it helped some.
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Message 163179 (In Reply to Message 163142)
saintjimmy
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 01, 2005 03:24 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
It just that it had happened to me years ago. i am now 39. he has many grandchildren. and if he likes breasts so much, my older daughter has 38 d. but maybe i am naive. i honestly thought that he loved his granddaughters. as he has an older one. and he never touched his own daughter. I just didn't have any choice. i was in hospital, i thought i could leave my kids in my mother's care. i was wrong
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Message 163182 (In Reply to Message 163146)
rebel51
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 01, 2005 03:37 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
rebel, its not the first time my mom has completely destroyed my trust in her. all i know is that i yell and say get off of me and tell my kids to run. other times i see my kids in a mist in the corner and tell her i hate that SOB.... i think it is pretty bad, when i was adopted and didn't ask to be brought into that family and to have someone who is suppossed to love me, just to throw me away like yesterdays garbage like my real mother did. but i can accept that, but what she did to my daughter, i will never forgive her for.
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Message 163216 (In Reply to Message 162903)
It's Painful on Both Sides
Posted by karaokedavid82
on Oct 02, 2005 12:30 AM | Also by karaokedavid82
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Being that I am on both sides I know. The amount of pain and anger you feel towards someone who takes advantage of you is hard to forget. The demands, the threats, the fear of seeing the person again. . .but at the same time, on the other side, each situation is different. . .sex offense is very broad. . .there are those who ruined someone's life forever and those who made an error in judgement at Mardi Gras. . .the problem is society is using a broad brush to punish all offenders equally regardless of what gave them that label. An 18 year old with a 15 year old or indecent exposure being treated the same as say John Couey, it almost seems ludicris. The government is wrong on both sides of the plate. There is no middle ground right now, it's all about punishment, and while to those who have become victims this is fair and balanced, to those offenders who aren't stalkers, serial rapists or child molestors the punishment never seems to stop. There isn't a middle ground right now, and the politicans don't seem to have the interest of prevention at heart. . .no the interest of votes is more like it. The 2,500 foot rules, castration laws, no cluster laws, lifetime registration of low risk offenders and curfews have been studied by so many organizations-many of which are very biased against sex offenses, but the studies have consistantly shown that residence restrictions do not offer any protection and may make things worse (Center for Missing and Exploited Children), clustering of Offenders may actually reduce recidivism (Colorado DOJ), therapists have said that castration does not prevent reoffending because rapists and child molestors are not committing their offenses with sexual intent-but with power & control & attention on their minds and that having low-no risk offenders mixed in with high risk offenders could be helping true predators blend in with other offenders making it easy for them to slip through the cracks and offend again (CSOM). . .the problem is politicans are getting votes, and as long as the public is ignorant about the facts about sex offenders and what increases/decreases recidivism, the government will continue to pass feel-good legislation. That's all I can say for now, I'm sure I'll get lambassed for this one. . .but it is the best I could do at the moment.
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Message 163254 (In Reply to Message 163146)
rebel, StJ
Posted by 1dadof5
on Oct 02, 2005 03:59 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
Rebel, that first post of yours was so very right on the mark. This is an excellent forum and is very well above other similarly styled websites. I have been fascinated with all the different posters who come here regularly, even if I don’t always agree with their point of view. It shows just how diverse our country really is, and how out of touch our government and judicial/penal system is so far separated from the “regular folks” of America.
StJimmy makes an excellent point here as well
But I do have to point out that in psychosexual terms, there is no difference between an adult man desiring a 15-year-old or the same man desiring a woman in her 20s. People assume that because a particular line has been drawn by the law, that that line has some basis in what we know about human nature; but in this case, it simply doesn't.
I wholeheartedly agree with this statement as well. In an effort to shape the moral views of society, many talking heads try to tell us all how to think according to their particular agenda. Sadly, many people fall for the BS that flows from the mouths of our supposed leaders and figureheads.
To be totally fair, In the attempt to craft legislation to gain political capital for themselves they have mutated the judicial system that gives both victims and offenders alike, a raw deal in the real world.
This site brings the inherent flaws to the system to light, Important issues and events relating to sex crimes are discussed and debated, and if just a few lawmakers would just get their head out of their butts or the pollsters, they could come to this site and actually see for themselves the truth in realtime. Maybe they could take what they learn from here and actually pass meaningful legislation for once.
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Message 163304 (In Reply to Message 162903)
ruined
Posted by myoung
on Oct 02, 2005 08:29 PM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Welcome Ruined........
As a matter of fact, I think that may be one of the most important contributions of a site such as this
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Message 163315 (In Reply to Message 163102)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 02, 2005 11:31 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
I didn't post in the forum because there are 2 people, who i wont name, who think i am basically to blame for what happened to my daughter. Because my step dad touched me when i was in my middle 20's. Did i think he would touch my daughter who was only 15? NO!
I fully believe that you did not think your stepfather would touch your daughter as he touched you.
Maybe the question people are trying to ask is not IF you had any preconceived notions that he might repeat the same behavior with your daughter, for it is very clear you did not. The question I think people would like answered, and I think I know the answer, is IF you would have though he would do that to your daughter, would you have acted appropriately to prevent it?
I think you would have.
So, we can all learn a lesson from this. You have learned that when someone does something to you, it is quite probable, barring any intervention, that they will do the same thing to someone else. And the rest of us have learned the same lesson.
The nightmares? Well you can do a Yahoo search about nightmares and find a wealth of information. I suffer from nightmares as well, some from my military service and some from my childhood, and some completely unrelated to anything. My worst nightmare is where I have a room full of women strapped to the wall and I am skinning them from the knees down, and piling the hides in the middle of the room, and pile keeps growing and growing, anf their screams get louder and louder until I awake covered in sweat and my heart rate over 160. This is a recurring dream for over 20 years now. I hate it, but nothing seems to stop it short of passing out.
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Message 163360 (In Reply to Message 163315)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 03, 2005 02:00 PM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
DARN!!! I thought that my reacurring nightmare about thousands of dead cats was bad!!
I think that I like mine better than I would yours!!
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Message 163410 (In Reply to Message 163304)
Posted by jenclink
on Oct 03, 2005 09:27 PM | Also by jenclink
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Washington,
Country: United States |
I'd have to say yes, they do talk and they do learn from eachother. I know that before I came on this site, I was angry, hurt and confused, but being on this site and talking to everyone, RSO's and victims, has helped a lot. I've become a lot stronger than I was, and I'm finally dealing with everything instead of running away like I did in the past. But I'm not going to say that it's that easy for everyone, because it's not. There are some people who can't even stand the thought of there being RSO's and victims on the same website, but I know for me at least, getting their opinion as well as victim's opinions has really helped me.
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Message 163449 (In Reply to Message 163086)
Posted by Navigatr1
on Oct 04, 2005 01:28 PM | Also by Navigatr1
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Excellent post rebel51. I couldn't agree more. As you said, if a person's pain is so raw that they can't handle what is said on this forum, they need to be in private counseling with a professional rather than on this discussion board or any other discussion board for that matter. People do learn from each other on this site, which makes it unique.
I can understand momhelpingbyherself's perspective too. She just want's a safe place for her daughter to post, and for her that safety is talking to victims only or victim advocates. However, her pain is too raw at the moment so she responds with a lot of anger and is pretty vocal that she doesn't want to hear from offenders or their advocates even if they were victims themselves.
--Navigatr1
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Message 163451 (In Reply to Message 163410)
Posted by Navigatr1
on Oct 04, 2005 01:53 PM | Also by Navigatr1
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Glad to hear that this website has helped you and that you are a stronger person because of it. You are correct that a lot of people tend to run away from their problems rather than face them.
--Navigatr1
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Message 163453 (In Reply to Message 163449)
navigatr1
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Oct 04, 2005 02:03 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
like you i agreed with everything that rebel had to say. and i wasn't using myself or my daughter as an example. i was simply saying what if there was a new member who just didn't feel comfortable coming and speaking how it made them feel to everyone. So's included. Some just aren't strong enough at first. There are things that i do hold back, but i am like this no matter what the situation is. But that is my personality. I am not a SO hater. I am just stating in my opinion that a new person who comes to this forum may not feel comfortable right away. I have had to deal with this for a year now. and i have been in counciling. I also know that this is not a place for counceling. and because it seemed like a big deal that my daughter shouldn't post in the victims forum, she isn't posting in the forum. however, its hard for her to go and face someone and talk about it. so its kind of a situation of being stuck in the middle of rock and a hard space.
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Thread
162903, Ruined, Sep 28, 2005 06:39 AM
162917, dp1, Sep 28, 2005 02:21 PM [Ruined]
162921, orolan, Sep 28, 2005 04:17 PM
163036, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 29, 2005 08:45 PM [Ruined]
162950, joy1234, Sep 29, 2005 02:54 AM
162965, rebel51, Sep 29, 2005 09:56 AM
163037, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 29, 2005 08:49 PM [just a thought]
163086, rebel51, Sep 30, 2005 11:28 AM
163102, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 30, 2005 03:14 PM [rebel51]
163142, saintjimmy, Oct 01, 2005 06:38 AM
163179, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 01, 2005 03:24 PM [saintjimmy]
163146, rebel51, Oct 01, 2005 11:48 AM
163182, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 01, 2005 03:37 PM [rebel51]
163254, 1dadof5, Oct 02, 2005 03:59 AM [rebel, StJ]
163315, Renunciation, Oct 02, 2005 11:31 PM
163360, rebel51, Oct 03, 2005 02:00 PM
163449, Navigatr1, Oct 04, 2005 01:28 PM
163453, momhelpingbyherself, Oct 04, 2005 02:03 PM [navigatr1]
163216, karaokedavid82, Oct 02, 2005 12:30 AM [It's Painful on Both Sides]
163304, myoung, Oct 02, 2005 08:29 PM [ruined]
163410, jenclink, Oct 03, 2005 09:27 PM
163451, Navigatr1, Oct 04, 2005 01:53 PM
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