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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): mother's confusion - saintjimmy
Message 155487
Posted by motherintears
on Jul 08, 2005 07:43 PM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Here's my story. Any advice or thoughts are welcomed
Last week I got the call from my brother that he caught my oldest son (12yrs) in the bedroom with his pants around his legs and over top my youngest son (5 yrs) and his pants down as well.
My brother went back downstairs instead of addressing the situation and that is when he called me. I immediately came but stopped at my mom's to call the local children welfare service. I had no experiences with this and didn't know which way to go. Since then I have beaten myself up not knowing if I had done the right thing. Without a doubt, I don't question getting my son help and protecting my other boys. But I have been wondering if he could have received the recieved the proper help through a regular therapist.
He's gonna be going for a mental health evaluation. And I expect that he will in an inpatient housing following reccommendations from the caseworker from everything I have been reading.
It's hard being the mother of the perputrator and the mother of the victims as well. (my 8yr son was sexually assulted as well.) I keep wondering where I went wrong.
I have faith and have been giving my oldest son all the love and support that he needs. He does have a lawyer, which isn't to beat the charges, just someone to look out for his best interest.
It's hard. I went from being the loving mother of three boys to having my oldest ripped out of my house. I'm scared for my oldest boy.
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Message 155498 (In Reply to Message 155487)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 08, 2005 10:35 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
(my 8yr son was sexually assulted as well.)
Did your oldest boy molest him also?
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It's quite a dilema to say the least. I wish the best for your oldest boy and hope that the in-patient treatment program he might go to will help him. There's no question that protecting the others is your major concern. Getting the 12 year old help if possible and or separating him from the others is important. Don't go easy on him. Put your foot down. This may be the only chance he has to getting better. As he grows old the consequences get MUCH worse. You wouldn't be doing him any favors by enabling another sexual assault. I know this must be difficult.
I have a question. Was the 12 year old molested as well? If you don't know can you find out and eliminate that pedophile from your life? Who knows it might be someone you know who has access to the other boys? Just a thought.
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Message 155530 (In Reply to Message 155498)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 09, 2005 04:24 PM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
I feel for your situation. It is always akward when these things happen in your own home. You may feel like you have somehow failed as a mother. I know Some may jump me because of this, but you would be suprised at how often these types of things happen even in the best of homes. At 12 years old, your son is already testing his sexuality and unfourtunately, he is using his brothers as a way to explore these things. This probably happens hundreds of times per day in our nation's homes. I personally think you jumped the gun in calling the authorities and getting your son into the judicial system. I feel this situation would have been best handled by a private therapist/inpatient response. The ramifications of being labeled a sex criminal will be with him for the rest of his life. Do not think that this wont happen either. It will affect yours and his health insurance (he may be denied when he is older) college admissions and a potential job oppourtunities will be affected as well.
I know its too late now to wipe away this course of action but you must support all of your kids during this, especially him. This is going to be very hard on him and will effect his self esteem in ways you may not see for awhile.
I hope things go well for your family and that your kids and you can get through this situation better for the experience. I also hope your son's lawyer doesnt let anything happen to your son that will result in any kind of conviction or labeling. good luck
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Message 155577 (In Reply to Message 155487)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 09, 2005 06:50 PM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I hate to worsen the situation, but I too believe getting the law envolved with this was a bad thing. This may actually cause your son to have some serious issues in life. Being ripped away from your family is really bad. At least this will be a learning expierence for you in case one of your other children do this as well. I would get therapy for you entire family, and don't let the therapist tell your younger sons that the older is a bad person. This really will confuse them all about sex if you are not careful. Kids explore, it's natural. You are the only one that cares about your son, the people you hand him over too don't.
Anyhow I wish you and yours good luck and keep us posted.
-peace-
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Message 155596 (In Reply to Message 155487)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 09, 2005 08:51 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Mom,
Please beware that sexual offender's do post in this forum. Very few have appropriate comments for this forum. Feel free to PM Steve if you feel as though you do not appreciate certain comments from criminals and or sex offenders. Some victims and their families enjoy reading the criminal's point of view, this is why the general forum is so interesting.
DP1
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Message 155604 (In Reply to Message 155487)
Welcome
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jul 09, 2005 09:38 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
Welcome to the forum. Your in a difficult position and I feel for you. :(
Some questions:
1. Had your son ever shown any errant behavior prior to this?
2. You mentioned your 8 year old was molested. Was this by the brother (found out later) or prior by someone else?
3. Had you had any discussions on sexuality, masturbation, appropriate "habits" with him prior to this happening?
4. Did your 5 year old son relate any other incidents prior to being caught where your son had done this?
Calling in social services is a double edged sword. While they can direct help they could also end up causing your son to spend the rest of his life as a registered sex offender. Texas at this moment has a 12 year old on their internet registry.
What type of treatment are they planning on doing? There are programs (inpatient) to treat sexually active offenders. Some are pretty good and others are basically warehousing. You need to followup on what they're planning and what the consequences to your son are. With the public hysteria around sex offenders he could end up being banished from your town due to a 2,500 foot rule, registered online, tossed out of school requiring tutors, I mean depending on what he's charged with (are the police involved??) this could haunt him the rest of his life. He'll also need to prepare for the peer pressure this will bring if it does get out. Either way your lawyer needs to be on top of things to ensure he isn't classified "a sex offender" because it is a lifetime deal in todays society even for a 12 year old kid.
Still you probably did the right thing. If you had just brought him to a regular therapist he'd be required by law to report it anyway. Then you'd have the police in your face versus child welfare now. As for therapy its specialized and not something anyone can administer. While this may've been something "simple" being caught with his pants down it could've progressed had you not intervened. I guess I'm most surprised your brother didn't break it up.
As for "where you went wrong" you didn't. These things can happen and its how we deal with them that matters. Don't beat yourself up. Theres no such thing as "shoulda coulda woulda". People don't talk to their kids about sex, masturbation, attractions, relationships. Its just the way it is. If I had my way ALL of this would be discussed in the schools but the Christian Right wouldnt hear of it claiming its "promoting" sex. Well this is the alternative you get with "abstinence only" education. A 12 year old gets sexaully aroused, has no guidance on whats appropriate, and "explores" with the only kid available, in this case your other son.
Don't let him get away from you. My guess is he was just trying to get some relief, exploring sex with what he may've thought was a "peer" but he knew he could manipulate. Your younger son might've enjoyed the attention he was getting and certainly didn't realize what the older sons motivation was (sexual). Its a tragic circumstance and one that handled appropriately with counseling could be averted. Handled strictly judicially it'll be a disaster.
Silverthorne
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Message 155615 (In Reply to Message 155596)
dp1
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 09, 2005 10:45 PM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
Mom,
Please beware that sexual offender's do post in this forum. Very few have appropriate comments for this forum. Feel free to PM Steve if you feel as though you do not appreciate certain comments from criminals and or sex offenders.
what sex offenders posted in this thread? AND what comments made thus far arent appropriate because i know if you let social services intervene in indiana, it is always with bad and unintended results, thats why the whole system got scrapped and they are starting over from square one on a brand new family and child services. Just because you may refuse to believe how often this very scenario plays out in homes accross the country, doesnt make my response or anyone else's inproper and im suprised with your vast experience that you havent come accross similar situations several times before.
As I stated twice before, while this behaviour isnt the norm, its hardly rare. What is important is the proper response. All i said was that going to the police/social services given the paranoia and hysteria will probably traumatize and cause more damage than simply handling this within the family, church counselor or other private program. But then again, you probably think this 12 year old should be convicted as a sexual predator, imprisoned and then have a GPS slapped on his ankle at release when he is 30. Gees, that will certainly help this poor misguided kid who simply needs to learn proper behaviour and boundaries. a good dose of sexual education so he knows what is acceptable is in order as well.
He should in no way have to face a judge and conviction as a result of his curiousity
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Message 155627 (In Reply to Message 155604)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 10, 2005 01:06 AM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
""If you had just brought him to a regular therapist he'd be required by law to report it anyway. "" -silverthorne
Well if you don't give identifying information the therapist doesn't have to report anything. They can't cause they don't know anything. You would just say, "I caught my son with a younger child with their pants down." And a regular theripist would treat the issue and not just a sexual addiction. It's not even clear if at that age you can have a sexual addiction.
-peace-.
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Message 155659 (In Reply to Message 155627)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 10, 2005 05:27 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Scaye, this is a victim's forum. Your comments are not applicaple in this victim's case. Dp1
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Message 155680 (In Reply to Message 155627)
Posted by motherintears
on Jul 10, 2005 02:32 PM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
My 8 yr old was also assulted by my oldest son.
My oldest son has never been the victim of a sexual assult. Although my ex stepson was a victim before I knew him. Through conversation, my stepson told my son about what happened to him. I guess this is where my son got the ideas.
There's no turning back in what I've done. I have been told by the local police and child welfare system that because of my son's age, this will not be on public record, not permanent record. Also because he is being charged as a juvenile, these records will be kept sealed. They want to see him be reunited with his family. This treatment center is for treatment, not punishment.
The intreatment center has group therapy as well as family therapy. My other boys that are victims of this are set up to start counseling just as soon as my oldest son starts treatment and the investigation is over. Until then, they are going through a good touch/bad touch program.
I want the best for all three of my sons.
I think that an intreatment therapy is the best thing for my son considering what info I have gotten out of my other boys since everything came out in the open. He definitely needs help and I would like to believe that an inpatient therapy will be much better than any typical counseling he would have received.
If he never does this again, then I have done the right thing.
There's is the chance that this could get out........ but I have already considered that we might have to move to if it would get out in the community. But that's minor, considering the big picture and what could have been had this never been caught. Thankfully for all those involved, according to my boys, it was only going on since school let out. So this is early on and very treatable.
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Message 155709 (In Reply to Message 155659)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 10, 2005 07:43 PM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I'll keep it in mind.
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Message 155710 (In Reply to Message 155680)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 10, 2005 07:45 PM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Well, what is done is done. Now that you've given a little more info it doesn't sound all that bad. Once you do have him back, try to make it like it was before. Don't over do it on the love, but don't make him feel out in any way. This should allow you guys to get back to normal as soon as possible.
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Message 155719 (In Reply to Message 155627)
reporting
Posted by counsellor
on Jul 10, 2005 09:12 PM | Also by counsellor
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Scaye,
That information is incorrect and unethical of a therapist. If a client shares any information that suggests a child has been hurt, then s/he is legally obligated to report it. It doesn't matter if there is "no name" given - that's the purpose of an investigation that will be conducted once the report has been made.
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Message 155720 (In Reply to Message 155487)
Posted by counsellor
on Jul 10, 2005 09:13 PM | Also by counsellor
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Motherintears,
It sounds as if you have handled this situation very well. If you had attempted to handle it in another way, it would have likely been reported anyway - unless you had decided to keep it a secret (and secrecy only furthers abuse). I work with teenage sex offenders and understand the impact an inpatient approach can have if a child is in need of that intensity of an intervention. I hope your sons get the help they need.
I wish the best for you and your family.
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Message 155724 (In Reply to Message 155719)
Agreed
Posted by dp1
on Jul 11, 2005 12:01 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
This is one of the reasons why we need to be careful about which convicted felons/sex offenders/jail house lawyers post here in the victim's corner. No offense to criminals here, but I know I need a break from the snake in the grass always on the sly approach to stuff. Victim's sure as heck don't need it.
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Message 155727 (In Reply to Message 155720)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 11, 2005 12:37 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Yup. In my state the only way for a juvenile to get in-patient treatment is with a court order. It has to be reported. No more lies. No more cover ups.
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Message 155728 (In Reply to Message 155709)
scaye
Posted by dp1
on Jul 11, 2005 12:41 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Convicted sex offenders and deviants are welcome to post in the other side forum and the general forum.
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Message 155729 (In Reply to Message 155727)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 11, 2005 01:49 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
it sounds like things are headed in the right direction. The inpatient option is always the best way to go when you want good results, especially when that child can see that they are not alone in thier situation. we have 3 intreatment facilites that i know of. 2 require a court order and the other is a private facility. On a positive note, most insurance companies will cover most to a point. the private facility usually gets more insurance benefit as sometimes the state programs dont qualify for full coverage for some wierd reason. I think it probably has to do with accreditation and many state run programs/facilities seek to only meet the minimum requirements.
I can also hope for his sake and the family overall that this matter can be kept as quiet as possible. we had one poster last year whos family was suffering a bunch of needless hounding by the neighbors when a similar thing happened with a neighboring family's children. Pensylvania has been good at keeping records of juvi's sealed even with a sex offense as long as the offender is 12 or younger. Unfortunately, I cant say the same for TX, WI, IL, CA and now KY which list all offenders even the 7 and 8 year olds. Illinois has 3, TX has 12, WI has 5 and IL has 9 Juveniles under 12 on thier registries.
Stay on top of things and get your family through this. I truely hope that this will be something that your family can move on from and prosper. good luck and keep us posted on your son's progress
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Message 155738 (In Reply to Message 155728)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 11, 2005 06:47 AM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Steve is aware of my situation, if I was barred from this forum then none of my post would be accepted. Besides I'm a victim of abuse myself.
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Message 155739 (In Reply to Message 155719)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 11, 2005 06:51 AM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Just reporting what I've been told by therapist. Maybe it depends on the state, etc.
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Message 155740 (In Reply to Message 155724)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 11, 2005 06:59 AM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I'm still trying to see how my comments are deceptive?
This is not just some man down the street, it's her son. In any case I don't really like how I'm being chased out with a pick fork by dp1, though in other forums she seems to act neutral here she's sterotyping me for my past.
-peace-
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Message 155780 (In Reply to Message 155724)
Posted by rabbitreborn
on Jul 11, 2005 06:06 PM | Also by rabbitreborn
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
dp1,
As I have stated previously to you in PM I tend to avoid posting in this forum just for the reasoning that I have seen in this post. Just because a person is a RSO does not mean that their point of view is unwelcome. Personally I don't agree with Scaye, but that does not invalidate his point of view. Personally I feel that this mother has done the correct thing here as hopefully her son will get the treatment he needs and her family will not only be made whole again , but also have an even stronger bond than it did before (not that I feel there was a weak bond but it generally follows that going through a traumatic life changing event like they are currently going through will strengthen the bond of the survivors rather than weaken it).
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Message 160644 (In Reply to Message 155487)
UPDATE
Posted by motherintears
on Sep 05, 2005 04:13 PM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Well, since all this has happened, my son was sent for a full evaluation. We had his hearing last week. My son has been placed in a theraputic foster care program. This foster care program works specifically with the place the evaluated him. There will be individual therapy as well as family therapy. This foster care program on average gets the child back in their home on an average of eight months. But this depends a lot on the progress of the child, as well as parents doing their part. My son is at an age where people can and do change dramatically in a short period of time and they see him as low risk to reoffend.
After reading the evaluation thoroughly, I see everything that they saw. My son, depite being in the seventh grade has a "thinking ability" of a second grader. Also they said he appears to have difficulty anticipating consequences, determining right from wrong, and understanding how his behavior impact others. I do not use this as an excuse for what he did to his brothers, but it does help me to understand how it happened. My eight year old, I still have to explain right from wrong and the impact of his choices. So this tells me that I have to talk and reason in depth with him like I do the younger kids in my house. I just took for granted because he was older, that his thinking process grew with him.
I feel like this is a great opportunity for my family. We are headed in the right direction. My oldest will finally get the in depth couseling that he needs. With this evaluation, he was seeing lots of different people. Now he will start seeing just one person and will grow to trust her, in turn starting to open up more about what he has done. Up to now, he really hasn't gone in depth with anyone as it is embarrassing to him, but he was questioned by like 10 different people for this evaluation.
The younger two are in counseling as well.
We can only make the best of the hand that was dealt us....... And I have faith that things are headed in the right direction.
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Message 160715 (In Reply to Message 160644)
Mom
Posted by dp1
on Sep 06, 2005 05:26 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Sounds good to me. I'm glad you're pleased with the results. Keep us posted on his progress. I'm glad they identified some issues now at such a young age before things got totally out of hand. You're doing a great job. Hang it there. It might get a little tougher throughout the counseling, but stick with it. It's worth it in the end.
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Message 160775 (In Reply to Message 160644)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Sep 06, 2005 07:42 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
I hope everything works out. In an imperfect world, you made the best decision. To ignore this problem, or sweep it under the rug, or keep it a secret would have sent the wrong message to your children. Often it is the secrecy surrounding abuse, more than the abuse, which is so damaging. Personally I don't think the law should be involved at all with children this young, unless there is clear abuse or neglect in the home that facilitated the abuse. Even normal 12 year olds are not able to truly appreciate the consequences of their actions, let alone a 12 year old who is developmentally delayed. It is for that reason we have age-of-consent laws. And it also for that reason we have juvenile court. However, given that there was really no choice but to involve the law, if you wanted to get him help, you made the best decision. Good luck to you all.
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Message 160805 (In Reply to Message 160644)
not an excuse?
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 07, 2005 03:22 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
My son, depite being in the seventh grade has a "thinking ability" of a second grader. Also they said he appears to have difficulty anticipating consequences, determining right from wrong, and understanding how his behavior impact others. I do not use this as an excuse for what he did to his brothers
If your son has the thinking ability of a second grader (i.e. a 7-year-old) it is hard to see why that [i]wouldn't[/i] be a valid excuse for sexual experimentation with an 8 and a 5 year old. Even if he were a 12-year-old of normal thinking ability, it would be wrong to consider him a predator; he would more likely be suffering from adjustment problems.
I'm not entirely sure that turning him in to the system was the best move here. Some juvi sex offender therapies are ghastly. If he is in a good one, he is lucky.
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Message 160808 (In Reply to Message 160775)
confused ???
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 07, 2005 03:31 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
deadmom, you said " Personally I don't think the law should be involved at all with children this young, unless there is clear abuse or neglect in the home that facilitated the abuse" then a minute later you said "there was really no choice but to involve the law." I don't get what you're getting at.
If I were in her shoes, I would not have involved the law, knowing what I know about some juvenile "sex offender programs." It sounds like her son got into a good and respectable one, but you can visit http://www33.brinkster.com/ethical to see some instances of the other kind.
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Message 160834 (In Reply to Message 160808)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Sep 07, 2005 09:49 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
My point is that she had a situation she could not ignore and she admits she did not have the knowledge or skills to handle it herself. Her older son needed counselling and her younger sons, and possibly other children, needed to be safe. In a better world she would go to a counsellor, get some family counselling, a social worker might decide whether the son should be removed from the family for a short time and the law would not be involved at all. That is what would happen where I live. However, apparently in some US states, even young children have to be reported to the police by the counsellor, when it is deemed other children might be at risk.
As I understand it her choice was no professional help or professional help and reporting to police. Neither of these choices are great but she made the best one she could.
If we had a choice we would have not have involved the police when my daughter disclosed her abuse. It was not her choice or ours. (My choice was to call in the male relatives from the great white north and mete out our own justice and if the police hadn't been involved that would have been an option.) However once the story was out - which was necessary because keeping the secret was destroying my daughter - there was no way of not involving the police. Every nurse, doctor and therapist who talked to her was obligated to report it. Absolutely nothing came of it, which was easily predicted given the circumstances, and my daughter practically died.
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Message 160968 (In Reply to Message 160834)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 08, 2005 05:41 PM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
About 28% of kids engage in sex play with other children at some time during their childhood, (Haugaard and Tilly 1988). Considering this, it is arguable that her 12 yo was displaying developmentally appropriate behavior, if not exactly good behavior, and that increased home supervision may have been something to try before therapy. Unless violence was used, it is highly doubtful that the younger children need any treatment. Unless there is a more to the story than we've heard, this sounds like an overreaction, although the consequences of the overreaction are not as severe in this case as they have been in others.
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume5/j5_2_2.htm
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Message 161011 (In Reply to Message 160805)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Sep 09, 2005 05:14 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
im glad things are better for your family. as stjimy pointed out, getting into a good program thru the "system" isnt a given. im so glad you did. good luck
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Message 161102 (In Reply to Message 155596)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:42 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
momintears,
like dp said, SO's do also post in these forums, when i first joined the forum, i was upset because my stepfather had touched my 15 year old daughter. They treated me like i was the worst mother in the world, because he had done the same thing to me in my middle 20's.But never in my wildest dreams did i think he would do his granddaughter. so do one of two things, if you feel attacked, speak your mind, like i do, it usually shuts them up, or tell steve, he will put a stop to it.
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Message 161103 (In Reply to Message 155627)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:44 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
this is not true, anything that can mentally harm a child will be turned over to child welfare and then most of the time the police get involved anyway
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Message 161104 (In Reply to Message 155659)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:46 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
someone who is taking up for a victim, i am in shock, where were you all when i came in and needed to talk about what happened to my daughter? attacking me for being a bad mother that is where
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Message 161105 (In Reply to Message 155738)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:50 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
let me get this right, you are a SO and a victim of abuse. talk about calling a spade a spade. here you are preaching at someone about how they handled something and you did the same thing. are you going to blame it on being abused? like dp said, SO's shouldn't post to victims forums, because usually, after one post, the people have them so scared and upset they don't come back, and just making an attempt to try and talk about it is a huge step and a scary step for them
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Message 161106 (In Reply to Message 155710)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:52 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
i disagree with what Scaye said. you should show your son that you do love him. love heals all wounds. but also let him know that those behaviors aren't appropriate. but you do love him. let him know that your love for him hasn't changed.
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Message 161107 (In Reply to Message 155724)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:54 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
amen to that
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Message 161108 (In Reply to Message 155780)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 06:56 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
dp i agree with you. the RSO's seem biased and don't want to recongnise how the victims feel then or now. they can be cruel and unfeeling. and i am sorry the victims shouldn't feel like they are the ones who did the crime
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Message 161109 (In Reply to Message 160715)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 07:00 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
Mom it sounds like you are happy with the results and i wish you and your children the strength and prayers to get through this and let the healing process begin.
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Message 161110 (In Reply to Message 160968)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 10, 2005 07:02 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
well unless you walk a mile in a mother's shoe saint, then you wouldn't know what a mother would and will do for their child.
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Message 161125 (In Reply to Message 160968)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Sep 10, 2005 05:45 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
IPT Forensics, is, as I am sure you are aware, a journal pretty much dedicated to publishing articles which benefit the "other side". In particular, they take issue, with claims of "recovered memory" claiming it is not possible, support the notion of "false memory syndrome", publish extremely limited anecdotal studies claiming there are huge percentages of false reporting of sexual assault and abuse and are often called in as "expert witnesses" for the defense of rape and sexual abuse charges. They are hardly a mainstream psychology or psychiatry journal. Underwager, who heads the institute, is much loved by pedophiles, especially after giving an interview to a pedophile magazine in which he claimed that "Paedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose. They can say that what they want is to find the best way to love. . . . Paedophiles can make the assertion that the pursuit of intimacy and love is what they choose. With boldness they can say, "I believe this is in fact part of God's will. " Interestingly, and somewhat contradicting what you are saying, he also claims that pedophilia is something that is "learned" at an early age. Based on even the research of this man, who is at best neutral on the issue of pedophilia, I would think that this mom would want to intervene and provide her older with counselling, unless she thinks that pedophilia is OK and she doesn't mind her son being one.
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Message 161127 (In Reply to Message 155487)
to:motherintears
Posted by anti
on Sep 10, 2005 07:21 PM | Also by anti
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
the 8 yr old was molested by who also, the same older brother?
anti
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Message 161163 (In Reply to Message 161104)
Posted by dp1
on Sep 11, 2005 05:32 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
someone who is taking up for a victim, i am in shock,
Shock? Why are you in shock? If you did your homework you will find I've been the top poster for years. You will not find one person who posts in any of the forums who takes up for victims more than I. You've picked your battle with the wrong person.
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Message 161191 (In Reply to Message 160968)
saintjimmy
Posted by motherintears
on Sep 11, 2005 04:31 PM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
About 28% of kids engage in sex play with other children at some time during their childhood, (Haugaard and Tilly 1988). Considering this, it is arguable that her 12 yo was displaying developmentally appropriate behavior, if not exactly good behavior, and that increased home supervision may have been something to try before therapy. Unless violence was used, it is highly doubtful that the younger children need any treatment. Unless there is a more to the story than we've heard, this sounds like an overreaction, although the consequences of the overreaction are not as severe in this case as they have been in others.
Many kids do engage in sex play. I accept that...... and had my oldest son engaged in sex with someone his OWN age, my reaction would have been quite different. But because he is 12 and his victims were quite younger (4 and 8 yrs younger than him), loved him unconditionally and trusted him, that's where I was concerned.
Increased surpervision wouldn't be enough. Trained therapists are trained to talk to him on a level that he can understand. And they are not family........ he gets angry any time I try to talk to him about this. Mainly because I feel he is embarrassed by his actions. So for me to address this and supervise him would not have gotten him anywhere. I could have supervised, but he would have needed an outside person to talk to.
As for the younger two not needing any treatment, I totally disagree. I think anyone who has ever been assaulted needs to talk about it, express their feelings and know it's ok to be angry. I've told my kids time and time again no one should ever see or touch their private areas unless it's a dr or me if you have a problem. Obviously that wasn't enough...... I haven't been trained to talk to anyone about this and I have never been a victim myself, so I haven't a clue what they might be feeling or thinking!!! I can ask them how they feel and tell them they can talk to me..... but I feel better getting them help by a trained professional. Besides, I want my kids to grow up happy and healthy and that includes their minds as well.
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Message 161192 (In Reply to Message 161127)
anti
Posted by motherintears
on Sep 11, 2005 04:34 PM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Yes, my 8 yr old and 5 yr old were both a victim of their older brother.
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Message 161196 (In Reply to Message 161106)
momhelping
Posted by motherintears
on Sep 11, 2005 04:42 PM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I didn't take what Scaye was saying as to mean, not show my son love once he returned home.
I could be totally wrong on how I interpreted what he was saying, but I took it as not feeling guilty for him being gone and giving in to all his wants and desires once he is back home.
I tell my son all the time that I love him. I also tell him that I'm here for him if he ever wants to talk. He knows that I am supporting him totally in this.
Now that he's in a TFC (theraputic foster care) he's on a level 1 again and I can only talk to him once a week until he earns enough points to achieve level 2. But I am allowed to write him as many letters as I want. And he does receive atleast one letter from me a week reinforcing my love and support for him. It's tough for him and me and I realize this.
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Message 161232 (In Reply to Message 161104)
did I miss something
Posted by myoung
on Sep 11, 2005 06:42 PM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
mom
Can you point out the posts in which you were attacked by the people here calling you a "bad mother"? What the?? I'm surprised by that and I don't recall seeing it either. People definitely can be cruel....that's the unfortunate reality of our world. Like I said before.....just being a victim and telling your story doesn't guarantee you'll get all kind words of support. It's always a double edge sword when dealing with so many people from so many different backgrounds. One thing I've learned is to NEVER have any kind of expectations...that way...you lessen your chances of disappointment. In support of dp1 and several others on this forum...there are those who are nothing but supportive. HOWEVER...if they need to point out that maybe some remarks are made by victims that are baseless and uninformed, they have no problem pointing that out.either. That's always a good thing
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Message 161234 (In Reply to Message 161192)
sorry...
Posted by anti
on Sep 11, 2005 06:44 PM | Also by anti
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I am soo very very sorry for you. I know how it feels to hurt when your child hurts, from sexual abuse.
if you need me pm me, again I am sorry for you.
please keep up any work you must for the abused children.
peace to you, and yours, anti.
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Message 161344 (In Reply to Message 161163)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 12, 2005 07:37 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
i wasn't picking a battle with you dp. i also see how many times you post. i have just never seen someone show any compassion for anyone. If i missed some of your posts sorry. i don't get on Pc alot because i have a seizure disorder. But I sure wasn't showed any compassion or understanding when i wrote what happened to my daughter.
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Message 161345 (In Reply to Message 161232)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 12, 2005 07:45 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
yea from the start when i found this forum and mentioned what happened to my daughter. that is where. Amd i wasn't attacking dp, i was just stating that it was the first time i have ever seen one, other than a couple of times. so what the ??. i don't expect anything from this group. or any other group. but i do believe that people who first come into a forum are scared, especially in a victims room, and it was a big step for her to take. and people pounded her. and like you stated i have no problem pointing it out either. no matter who likes it or not. and i haven't had any posts kicked so therefore, i must be going by the rules. so you know what they say about opinions everyone has one... so if you have heard the saying you know how it ends
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Message 161347 (In Reply to Message 161234)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 12, 2005 07:57 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
anti, i agree with motherintears, i think you should keep up the hard work that you do. THey say that there is nothing like a mother's love. and men have no idea what a woman will do to protect their young.
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Message 161375 (In Reply to Message 161347)
thank you..
Posted by anti
on Sep 13, 2005 07:02 AM | Also by anti
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
It is so good to see someone say that to me!! really, ohh but believe me I am doing my work that will not end.
ty, anti
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Message 161413 (In Reply to Message 161344)
Mom
Posted by dp1
on Sep 13, 2005 05:25 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Mom,
The first and most important issue I'd like to say to you is that I am sorry you feel I showed little or no compassion for your situation. I believe there was a miscommunication on my part from the beginning. No I can't read your mind and you can't read mine. Emotions are difficult to display on paper or in posts. Although we did not agree initially about the registry issue, please do not let our disagreements lead you to believe I don't care about someone's abuse. I understand how you could have misinterpreted the situation and I take responsibility for that. It is NEVER a good situation when someone gets abused. I'm sorry.
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Message 161504 (In Reply to Message 161413)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 14, 2005 02:50 PM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
Thank you dp, I appreciate that.
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Message 161676 (In Reply to Message 155596)
what are some people thinking
Posted by kimbev
on Sep 15, 2005 06:34 PM | Also by kimbev
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: New Jersey,
Country: United States |
I hate to say this but to the people that said it was wrong to get social services involved and you should have handled it with a therapist well they need some help truly they do, i was sexually abused 9 yrs by my stepdad age 6 to 15, he was 30 or so when he started but all these yrs later i've found out from his sisters and mother that he molested his sisters and a neighbor when he was only a child and they tried counseling and handling it on their own, unfortunately that didn't work too well, you did the right thing now you can only pray that it works for your son, i feel that it won't matter that it seems unfortunately from things i've read that since this was the type of sexual experience he first had that he will always look to younger boys as his sexual pecadillo...but i'm not an expert only an avid reader of crimes of this type and historys of people who have commited such crimes. good luck to you
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Message 161713 (In Reply to Message 161676)
kimbev
Posted by motherintears
on Sep 16, 2005 12:29 AM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
i feel that it won't matter that it seems unfortunately from things i've read that since this was the type of sexual experience he first had that he will always look to younger boys as his sexual pecadillo...but i'm not an expert only an avid reader of crimes of this type and historys of people who have commited such crimes. good luck to you
I have to have faith that my son will not reoffend children or his brothers again. He's receiving two types of counseling, first and foremost is a sexual offender therapy and secondly is family therapy. In the sexual offender therapy, he will learn empathy and how his actions have affected his brothers and other things associated with this matter such as how to recognize his weakness and how to properly handle that situation. This sexual offender therapy is suppose to be one of the best in the state, dealing strictly with sex offenders.
I'm sorry that your stepfather had a history of this, but maybe he just didn't receive the right type of counseling.
My younger boys are even seeing a therapist specializing in sexual abuse. All I can do is get them the help they need and pray that it will help them.
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Message 161720 (In Reply to Message 161676)
Posted by momhelpingbyherself
on Sep 16, 2005 01:26 AM | Also by momhelpingbyherself
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kentucky,
Country: United States |
I totally agree with kimbev, you handled the situation the correct way. Social Services would have been involved no matter what. Wheather you went to thearpy or not.
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Message 161824 (In Reply to Message 161191)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 17, 2005 01:49 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
As for the younger two not needing any treatment, I totally disagree. I think anyone who has ever been assaulted needs to talk about it, express their feelings and know it's ok to be angry.
Mother, I hope what you mean by this is not "They need to know it's ok to be angry, and I won't be satisfied until they are!" If it isn't, my apologies, but that is how you are sounding. That is that attitude of far too many people in situations like yours.
Had this never come to light, it is unlikely that it would've ended up "angry" with their brother, or seen any reason to be.
U.S. President James Garfield was shot by an assassin on July 2, 1881. Garfield survived the shooting, but didn't survive the treatment of his doctors poking and prodding in his back for two months. I mean no offense, but this is precisely the outcome I fear from your apparent overreaction. I have seen it happen plenty of times before.
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Message 161826 (In Reply to Message 161110)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 17, 2005 01:52 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
That mothers will do a lot "for their child." is not denied by anyone. That doesn't excuse them from doing as much as they can to find out what is actually in their child's interests, and having a realistic assessment of what is threatening and what is trivial.
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Message 161829 (In Reply to Message 161125)
Posted by saintjimmy
on Sep 17, 2005 02:09 AM | Also by saintjimmy
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Michigan,
Country: United States |
I'm not sure what order to take this in. For starters, the question of whom IPT Forensics' research "benefits" is surely not as important as whether its methods and reliable and its conclusions are valid. (Valid scientifically, not according to the polls, ideology or religion.) Orwell once parodied the idea that you can't say anything that might "benefit" someone disreputable, by pointing out that whenever anyone mentioned the problems of London slums it appeared on Nazi propaganda radio a week later. "Must we therefore pretend there are no slums?"
It is true that the late Dr. Underwager was properly scientifically objective, not neutral. I'm not sure what to make of the sentences you quoted me, except to say that if they were meant as a commendation of pedophilic activity, they are in direct contrast to the rest of the site, which recommends cognitive therapies for pedophiles, and commonly includes statements like
notwithstanding the fact that many child sexual abuse victims don't suffer significant long term negative effects as discussed in the Rind study, it is morally unjustifiable to expose a child to the risk of social condemnation and abhorrence associated with adult-child sexual contact. Most children recognize that they are being asked to collude in a socially condemned action which places them in a morally untenable situation...
As far as pedophilia being learned at an early age, even if that is so, obviously not all 28% of kids who engaged in childhood sex play become pedophiles. Not even a small fraction do.
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Message 161845 (In Reply to Message 161824)
saintjimmy
Posted by motherintears
on Sep 17, 2005 11:19 AM | Also by motherintears
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
My boys are allowed to feel any feeling from this. betrayal, sadness, anger. Whatever feelings they are having is ok with me. I don't want them to be angry with their brother. That is THEIR brother and despite all this they still love him. I encourage them to color him pictures so he knows that we all still love him. I just want them to understand their feelings and deal with them in a healthy way.
I don't encourage hate or anger. That's an awful way to live life
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Thread
155487, motherintears, Jul 08, 2005 07:43 PM
155498, dp1, Jul 08, 2005 10:35 PM
155530, 1dadof5, Jul 09, 2005 04:24 PM
155577, Scaye, Jul 09, 2005 06:50 PM
155596, dp1, Jul 09, 2005 08:51 PM
155615, 1dadof5, Jul 09, 2005 10:45 PM [dp1]
161102, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:42 AM
161676, kimbev, Sep 15, 2005 06:34 PM [what are some people thinking]
161713, motherintears, Sep 16, 2005 12:29 AM [kimbev]
161720, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 16, 2005 01:26 AM
155604, Silverthorne, Jul 09, 2005 09:38 PM [Welcome]
155627, Scaye, Jul 10, 2005 01:06 AM
155659, dp1, Jul 10, 2005 05:27 AM
155709, Scaye, Jul 10, 2005 07:43 PM
155728, dp1, Jul 11, 2005 12:41 AM [scaye]
155738, Scaye, Jul 11, 2005 06:47 AM
161105, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:50 AM
161104, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:46 AM
161163, dp1, Sep 11, 2005 05:32 AM
161344, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 12, 2005 07:37 PM
161413, dp1, Sep 13, 2005 05:25 PM [Mom]
161504, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 14, 2005 02:50 PM
161232, myoung, Sep 11, 2005 06:42 PM [did I miss something]
161345, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 12, 2005 07:45 PM
155680, motherintears, Jul 10, 2005 02:32 PM
155710, Scaye, Jul 10, 2005 07:45 PM
161106, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:52 AM
161196, motherintears, Sep 11, 2005 04:42 PM [momhelping]
155719, counsellor, Jul 10, 2005 09:12 PM [reporting]
155724, dp1, Jul 11, 2005 12:01 AM [Agreed]
155740, Scaye, Jul 11, 2005 06:59 AM
155780, rabbitreborn, Jul 11, 2005 06:06 PM
161108, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:56 AM
161107, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:54 AM
155739, Scaye, Jul 11, 2005 06:51 AM
161103, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 06:44 AM
155720, counsellor, Jul 10, 2005 09:13 PM
155727, dp1, Jul 11, 2005 12:37 AM
155729, 1dadof5, Jul 11, 2005 01:49 AM
160644, motherintears, Sep 05, 2005 04:13 PM [UPDATE]
160715, dp1, Sep 06, 2005 05:26 AM [Mom]
161109, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 07:00 AM
160775, deadmomwalking, Sep 06, 2005 07:42 PM
160808, saintjimmy, Sep 07, 2005 03:31 AM [confused ???]
160834, deadmomwalking, Sep 07, 2005 09:49 AM
160968, saintjimmy, Sep 08, 2005 05:41 PM
161110, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 10, 2005 07:02 AM
161826, saintjimmy, Sep 17, 2005 01:52 AM
161125, deadmomwalking, Sep 10, 2005 05:45 PM
161829, saintjimmy, Sep 17, 2005 02:09 AM
161191, motherintears, Sep 11, 2005 04:31 PM [saintjimmy]
161824, saintjimmy, Sep 17, 2005 01:49 AM
161845, motherintears, Sep 17, 2005 11:19 AM [saintjimmy]
160805, saintjimmy, Sep 07, 2005 03:22 AM [not an excuse?]
161011, 1dadof5, Sep 09, 2005 05:14 AM
161127, anti, Sep 10, 2005 07:21 PM [to:motherintears]
161192, motherintears, Sep 11, 2005 04:34 PM [anti]
161234, anti, Sep 11, 2005 06:44 PM [sorry...]
161347, momhelpingbyherself, Sep 12, 2005 07:57 PM
161375, anti, Sep 13, 2005 07:02 AM [thank you..]
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