|
|
Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): need to vent and understand - My daughter and I both feel your Pain!
Message 126605
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Jan 31, 2004 07:29 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
I apologize for the length of this post but I had to get this all down somewhere to try and make sense of it.
My 17 yr old daughter has been suffering from a variety of anxiety/depression related disorders the last few years – anorexia, compulsive exercising, suicidal ideation and attempts, panic attacks, insomnia, headaches, stomach-aches and auto-immune disorders. We have been through the wringer and been to numerous health-care professionals trying to figure out what could have possibly caused an academically-gifted, beautiful, talented girl with a loving family to have such low self-esteem, hate herself so much and be so afraid of life. A couple of months ago, while in hospital for depression, she disclosed that she had been repeatedly sexually assaulted by a close family friend when she was 12 to 13. This guy is married, has a daughter her age, seems completely normal, has been a “good” helpful neighbour and model citizen. At 12 my daughter was just beginning to show signs of puberty but oblivious to boys; she was happy, energetic, talented and sweet, if a little timid and overly eager to please. He has stolen her innocence, her normal teenage development. She seemed to have such potential and we had such great hopes for her. Now we just hope to keep her alive.
At first I simply could not believe it. Surely she must have somehow imagined it! Maybe it was her medications or her lack of sleep. Maybe it caused her to hallucinate.
1. How could we not have known? Wouldn’t we have noticed her distress? We spend a lot of time with our kids. They are not long out of our sight.
2. When would she have even been alone with him?
3. How could it happen again and again?
4. Why didn’t she tell us?
5. How could he sit across the table from us, smiling sympathetically as we worried over our daughter’s health, knowing what he had done.
Answers:
1. The assaults began when my husband was diagnosed and being treated for cancer. The children spent a lot of time at other houses, including the perp’s, and any distress we noticed we would have attributed to stress over her dad’s illness.
2. She would go over to visit her friend. The mom worked afternoon shift. The perp was often home alone and would invite her in to “wait”. The perp would pick her up from school, even though his daughter had gone elsewhere.
3. From the first assault when she didn’t tell she was trapped. She was living in a surreal world, trying to pretend nothing had happened. We encouraged her friendship with the daughter, sending her over to see what K was up to. We put her in harm’s way. Perhaps she even thought we approved.
4. She was so ashamed and confused. She couldn’t believe it was happening. He told her it was her fault. He told her it would kill her parents if they knew. He told her that it would destroy their families if anyone found out. She tried to tell us by repeatedly refusing to join us when we visit the family, even by running away once when we had invited them over for dinner – we thought she was being inexplicably difficult.
5. Either he is a complete psychopath or he is a pathetic coward who will sell his soul to save his worthless hide.
The assaults pretty much ran the gamut of “normal” heterosexual activity. That is as normal as you can get when a 45 yr old man rapes a little 12 year old girl. The first time he invited her in, played good host, chatted and joked with her before moving over and putting his arm around her – “paternally”. My daughter, a trifle uncomfortable, smiles sweetly. He tells her how “pretty” she is, how she is “developing nicely” and how she is going to be a “10”. He slips his hand under her shirt. She isn’t wearing a bra because she isn’t that developed yet. She tries to squirm away. She is scared and says “Please, no” but continues to smile at him – a trusted father figure she has known since kindergarten. He whispers more sweet nothings and continues to try and get under her clothes. He tells her he is going to show her “something nice that friends do for each other”. The assault proceeds – I will spare you the details. At some point when she is terrified and crying he yells that if she didn’t want to finish she shouldn’t have got started. He asks her to do things that horrify her and she doesn’t understand. By this time she is sobbing and petrified. Suddenly he stops and says he is sorry, that he couldn’t help himself because she was so sexy, he gently helps her get her clothes back on. He is a completely different person – back to fatherly friend. He tells her that no one can ever know – it might kill her parents. That it would destroy their families. My daughter doesn’t remember going home or anything that happened afterwards. The second time was worse, she says but she can’t remember it all, only that it started out much the same and she remembers being under him and feeling as if she was being suffocated and that it really hurt. She closed her eyes and “went somewhere else”. She cannot or will not talk about the details of the other assaults, which continued for about a year. She continues to blame herself, saying that “it wasn’t really his fault” or “it was partly my fault”. When I ask her why she says, “because I am a freak”, “because I was smiling and laughing at his jokes – he thought I was flirting with him” or “because I went over there, even though it had happened before – I was stupid”.
She first disclosed to a nurse when she was in the hospital. She was not prompted to do so. She frightened by the violence of another patient and the feeling of panic brought memories to the surface. Sexual abuse has never been a hot topic of therapy sessions (although I am not sure why). She had been asked a couple of times whether she had been sexually abused – she said she never knew what that meant. The story is coming out in pieces, as she remembers more details and as she sees that she is believed. It does not have the feel of a fabricated or imagined story. The narrative doesn’t make sense at times, the details do, however. She does not make any attempt to present herself in a good light and she tries to excuse the perp’s behavior. For a month after her initial disclosure she refused to name the perp, even though we pressed her to. However little by little, it became obvious who it was, although when asked out right she would deny it. Finally she told me who it was and told her therapist she had told me. From this point on everyone was after her to go to the police. We told her the decision was up to her and we would support whatever action she took. The police came to the hospital one night when we were out of town and sat with her until she agreed to give a statement. They then asked her to press charges. She was reluctant but they told her that other girls could be at risk so she finally agreed.
Even though I would love to see the creep behind bars I am very worried about the court thing. There is no way my daughter is strong enough to go through a trial and it is unlikely it would result in a conviction in any case. There is no doubt in my mind that the assaults occurred. Her story is consistent and credible, even if some parts are missing. She did actively avoid the perp, and later he noticeably avoided her. The symptoms of her illness are consistent with PTSD. Even though the police unanimously believed her story and thought he was lying, there is no physical evidence 5 years after the fact and she cannot even remember when the assaults occurred. It is her word against his. She has offered to take a polygraph – he has refused. He claims she is mentally ill (that much is true at least, thanks to him!) and that she has imagined the whole thing. He claims false memory syndrome. There is no reason for her to fabricate the story. She has been good friends with the daughter and grieves over the loss of that friendship. She is humiliated that her friends will know. We have no axe to grind with the family (until now and now it is a very big axe) and this is Canada so we have nothing to gain financially and only things to lose by pressing this case.
She still cannot make sense of what went on. She was a very young 12 – more like a 10 year old physically and emotionally. She has not really matured. She is terrified of sex and boys (I never understood this until now) and avoids all sexual material (movies or books). She is relentlessly suicidal. She believes her disclosure has brought the world down around around our family and his. She misses her friend; she believes she has taken a good friendship away from me. One night, after the disclosure but before it had been reported to police the wife dropped by to see how we were doing. I hustled her out. That night my daughter attempted suicide. She continues to be almost relentlessly suicidal. She self injures herself quite badly. She has flashbacks and cannot sleep. She does not want to sleep because for the first time in years she dreams and the dreams are awful. She will have physical and emotional scars for life. She is completely guilt-ridden and ashamed. Up until a few months ago she was struggling through her eating disorder and depression to try and get her life back. Now she has given up. She says see is tired and just wants to stop existing. She says she is a freak and was never meant to be.
I really need help to understand how someone could do this and look at himself in the mirror. He is a practicing Catholic. How does he justify himself to God? By forcing her to carry the entire burden of his disgraceful actions he has brought her to the brink of death. How can he continue to lie, knowing what those lies have cost her and our family? He used to talk about what a great talented kid she was, how she was a lot smarter than him. Did he imagine she was somehow his peer, that it was just “an affair”, that a timid young girl was capable of consenting or saying no to a much larger and previously trusted father figure; that her nervous smiles were an indication that she was “enjoying it”. What can possibly have been going on in his head. Perhaps the “proud pedophiles” can explain this to me.
I do not know how to help my daughter. She is getting daily counseling but she is not listening. She is only listening to the tapes in her head telling her what a worthless piece of garbage she is. I cannot seem to reach her. Can anyone who has been there and come out on the other side give me advice on how to get through this?
Forum Home
| Top of Thread
Message 126650 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Hello DMW
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 31, 2004 11:31 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
DMW,
Hello I'm Silverthorne. I've been posting here for a few years. You can read my story (Silverthornes Story) here in this victims section. While I'm dealing with issues to this day resulting from my own abuse I'm not a sex offender and don't condone any type of contact sexually between adults and minors.
You asked for someone who has "been there". I guess I'm it (read my story you'll see).
You raise a bunch of concerns about your daughter. I'll try to address them as best I can. First lets talk about the dynamic of sexual abuse and what happens when a child is victimized.
1) A child who is victimized in effect "grows up to fast". What that means is thier normal development emotionally is leapfrogged into adulthood and adult type conduct. They skip the normal "growing up" experiences of puberty and teen years. They also (if the abuse was very traumatic) skip something much worse.
2) Social development. A normal child growing up will have age appropriate peers. They'll make friends, lose friends, fall in love the first time, have a crush, all the normal things kids do with "emotional sexuality" (my name for it). When a child is abused this social development is also leapfrogged into adulthood.
In your daughters case she was made a "peer" by this man. She was told how she would be a "10". She was complimented. To be honest it happend quickly for her and I'd wonder if there were previous visits when there was other "grooming" type behavior going on? I'm sure if you look back there will be other little "things" you now can notice.
So your daughter was assaulted over a period of time. First its important to find out what exactly he told her. She never told apparently because she was concerned it might affect you or her father who was sick. So her heart was in the right place and she carried the burden. Now its time to let her leave the burden behind.
As a child I was happy and outgoing. But suddenly I became a reculse, moody, spending time alone, not seeing friends, avoiding hugs, just wanting to be left alone. Sound like her? Thats me I described but it could be ANY abuse victim. Looking back now its easy to recognize the signs isn't it? So what do you do now? Do you comment "If I had only known" to her? Do you remind her sometimes about it (even nicely) under the guise of compassion? This will sound insensitive (dont take it that way) but one of the WORST things you can do for an abuse victim is to remind them of it. I deal with a 70+ year old mother who still once in a while wanders off and talks about "him" and what happend. Blaming "him" for everything bad that ever happend. DONT DO THIS! Your daughter is a victim but you can victimize her again by reminding her of that. Don't pressure her or try to force your way in (you said you cant get thru to her). She will come around in her own time. Its a survival mechanism.
You said she's in therapy. What kind of therapy? Is it inpatient or outpatient? Is it with a specialist in sexual abuse or just some hospital shrink? This is VERY important. Child sexual abuse is a very specialized field. You need to see EXPERTS not laymen. Anyone can get a Psychology credential and hang up a shingle. You need to find a real expert to talk to her. It may not get thru to her right away but eventually it will. Until then you need to be supportive WITHOUT constantly reminding her she is a victim.
As I said previously one of the biggest issues with abuse is the diminished social skills. I know myself you retreat into a shell (where its safe) and don't want to let anyone in. I assume she didn't have many friends after this? She needs to get out more and be around people. Even if she doesn't talk get her out and about. Being alone all the time isn't healthy (I know I still do it).
I'm not sure about the criminal justice system in Canada. What have they said about prosecuting this man? He's claiming "false repressed memory syndrome" a very difficult defense. Does he have a lawyer already? Whats the status of the case?
I'm going to recommend you visit this website;
http://www.ipt-forensics.com/
Now I'll come right out and tell you I dont think much of IPT. When I was suing over my own abuse the defense hired these guys to try and discredit me (it didnt work). You might checkout thier website and some of the links/articles. While you believe your daughter is telling the truth you need to understand what this mans defense is all about. THIS is the kind of stuff they'll be throwing at your daughter if it does go to trial. These guys are "experts" at repressed memory and false claims. Read thier stuff and educate yourself.
I'm also going to recommend these books to YOU as a mother (because you sound alot like my mom did when this all came out about my own abuse):
BOOK:
Beginning to Heal : First Steps for Women Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse
LINK:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006096927X/ref=pd_sim_books_2/102-7521804-2537711?v=glance&s=books
BOOK:
The Courage to Heal - Third Edition - Revised and Expanded : A Guide for Women Survivors of Child Sexual Abuse
LINK:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060950668/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref%3Dnosim/102-7521804-2537711
Both of these books are great resources. If nothing else buy them for yourself to read so you better understand what's going on with her. Another good book I know of thats geared toward male victims is called ABUSED BOYS by MIC HUNTER. Its pretty good and you might check it out.
I've provided links to Amazon.com where you can order those books. If you do order them please go directly there from this site so Steve the webmaster can get credit for sending you there. He gets small "commission" (like pennies) that helps offset the substantial costs of maintaining this website and forum.
Finally you asked for someone who has "come thru it" to give you hope. Hope....... that is what your asking for isn't it? I'm sorry to say I can't give you hope in the traditional sense. Being sexually abused will always be a part of a victim. The key though is learning to live with the fact it happend and learning to work around it. I will always have trouble trusting people, making friends, I'll always prefer my own company and privacy. But I do go out now. I do have some friends. Am I "normal" for someone just past middle age? No of course not but I'm working on it. Working on it is the key. It wont just heal itself it takes alot of work. I honestly can't tell you how to get thru to your daughter. She will have to come to the realization in her own time that she is a good person and can work thru this. I think alot of what shes feeling is powerlessness. She needs to get some power back into her life. To do that she needs to get proper EXPERT help to deal with what happend.
Silverthorne
(If you like you can Private Message me with any personal questions. Also I often refer people to therapists who need them. If you can send me a PM message with your province in Canada and the nearest major city I'll attempt to find someone for you who is an expert in dealing with sexual abuse victims).
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 126812 (In Reply to Message 126650)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Feb 03, 2004 05:39 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Dear Silver,
I did read your story and it is something that a few months ago I would have just shook my head over sadly but not been able to relate to. I truly admire your attempts to be a good person in spite of the demons this man created for you. I also am grateful for your lengthy and perceptive reply. I see a lot of similarity to what happened with my daughter, although in her case there was no real physical violence. The perp merely used his “semi-parental” authority. (Our two families had often “babysat” each other’s kids). In this sense perhaps some of her issues are different. The violence in your case adds another level of violation, and attendant anger. For you the sense of powerlessness must be huge. However, having the abuser be a close, liked and trusted father figure is a huge betrayal and the sort of thing that splits the mind. It makes it even more difficult for her not to take the blame on herself. He is after all her friend’s father and liked by her parents. When the families got together he played the role of good father, husband and friend. ergo, she must be bad or a freak if he was doing this terrible thing to her and telling her it is her fault. SNAFU. She does and will have tremendous issues with trust - how can she trust anyone or anything? The centre does not hold.
I do have some questions and comments which I have PM'd to you but I wanted to thank you "publicly" for the helping hand you have extended.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126650)
Message 126999 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Hi Mom
Posted by PVulcan
on Feb 08, 2004 01:43 PM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Unfortunately or fortunately however you want to view it, all you can do right now is be there for your daughter. Listen to hear, reaffirm to her that you believe her. Allow her to go through this process, it's a must. Often times families and people nearest to the victim want the victim to reach this SURVIVOR stage because that would mean to the family that the victim is 'over this'. She WAS a victim, she will go through all the things you say she is going through. You can't speed up her process, it's her process. Her counseling, she is listening, she's processing it all, but combined with everything else involved, sometimes it simply takes time.
I would strongly suggest that you talk to someone also as you are a secondary victim. You can call RAINN 1-800-656-HOPE, you can call anonymously if you want to, or not, they will help guide you through this. My concern would be that theses feelings of frustration and anger by you about this entire situation may be being felt by the victim also, which brings to the victim another sense of self blame or responsibility.
Believe her, don't judge her, love her.
Also, Mary Beth Williams has a couple books on PTSD as it relates to sexual assault victims that might be helpful for you.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 127741 (In Reply to Message 126605)
If you need someone to talk to....
Posted by Rachel
on Feb 25, 2004 01:09 PM | Also by Rachel
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
Hi,
How incredibly sad for you and your daughter, my heart really goes out to you both.
I've also been posting here for a few years, but haven't written up my story as yet. Most people here know it anyway.
My daughter was also sexually abused. Between the ages of 4-8 she was the target of her father (my husband at the time).
Thankfully, like your daughter she finally found the courage to tell me. We had her father charged, he pleaded guilty and spent 2 years in prison.
Both my daughter and I, as well as my other children have run the gamut of emotions you described in your post.. Although it seems in your case that your daughter is much more traumatised.
It's been almost 6 years since my d disclosed and I can honestly say that their is light at the end of the tunnel.
If you'd like to talk more, please don't hesitate to private message me...I just wish I could do more......
Rachel
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 127824 (In Reply to Message 127741)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Feb 27, 2004 10:09 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Hi Rachel,
Thank you for your response. I am glad to hear that your daughter seems to be doing well. Perhaps her age worked to her advantage. In spite of what my daughter has been through the professionals tell us that her age is working for her as well - that it is better this is dealt with now than in her mid-thirties when she has children and self-destructs or after a string of disastrous relationships.
I think there are several things that made this particularly traumatic for my daughter. The perpetrator was a trusted and even loved father figure - a good friend’s father. My daughter’s personality - she is shy, self-conscious, highly sensitive and eager to please. She was extremely bright academically but behind her friends physically and emotionally. At 12 she was more like a 10 year old. Teachers would say she was “mature” when they really meant bright and obedient. She was very popular with teachers, and while she was too shy to be popular with classmates, she had a good set of friends and didn’t have a enemy in the world. We lived in a idyllic middle-class neighbourhood. She led a protected, privileged life. She had NO street smarts and in this sense, as parents, we were negligent. We were of the “why make them grow up too fast by exposing them to ugliness in the world” philosophy.
In the years just prior to and during the assaults we had a number of family crises that may have shaken her faith in the order of the universe - a friend of hers died of cancer, my sister died of leukemia, my mother had a heart-attack and her dad got cancer (in fact she is fairly certain one of the earlier assaults occurred when her father was in the hospital). For 2 years I had been pre-occupied with family illnesses. In grade 7 she found herself in a different class from the friends she had known since kindergarten. Her best friend since kindergarten seemed to lose interest in her and tried to join the popular group at school. Her father seemed to become more demanding and critical of her, for some reason. I have talked with a few friends about this phenomenon - ie, fathers becoming more critical of their “little princesses” as they enter puberty and I wonder if it isn’t some sort of evoluationary defense mechanism, so that they distance themselves. In any case, she had been a bright, happy, high energy, high achieving kid. In the fall after turning twelve she had become increasingly self-conscious, vulnerable, sad and lonely. Because of all these factors I wasn’t overly surprised when she seemed anxious and weepy or when she lashed out at her younger brother who she had previously got along with so well.
As she struggled with friendships at school, I encouraged her to see more of the perpetrator’s daughter, whose mother was one of my best friends. We, the moms, pushed the two of them together, even though my daughter seemed quite reluctant (I have sinced learned that the daughter had pressured her into sexual play a year before the assaults by the father began). She was a shy, trusting compliant child. It was not really in her repertoire to say no to adults. She literally NEVER openly disobeyed an adult - she would at times avoid doing things she didn't want to do but never be openly defiant. The perpetrator knew this about her and used it against her. He put her in a position from which there was no escape. Unable to say no to him she simply froze. During the assaults he threatened her with physical violence, when she “wasn’t doing it right” (eg. he couldn’t keep it up). He repeatedly begged her not to tell anyone because it would “destroy their families and it might kill her parents”. He may have meant this figuratively but she took it literally.
At the time the offenses started she was just beginning her adolescent development - she hadn't started her period yet (that wasn't to start for another 4 years) but she had some breast development and was starting to change shape a bit. She was extremely self-conscious about this and was mortified that someone used these changes as an excuse. Many kids in the beginning of puberty think they are freaks and that no one else is going through what they are - they are so focussed on the changes in themselves that they don't notice it happening in everyone else. The perp told her that "he couldn't help himself" because of the way her body was "blossoming". She literally believed that - that there was something about HER that turned this trusted friend of the family into an animal. She had already been approached sexually by his daughter a year earlier. None of her friends were having these experiences, as far as she knew. It must really be HER. There was something disgusting and bad about her.
Kids on the playground were gossiping and snickering about sexual activity at this age and it was clear what was thought of girls who had sex (whatever that was) with boys. She was terrified that someone would find out. Also the perpetrator used his daughter as bait, ie., he would tell my daughter that his daughter really wanted to see her. Sometimes he would pick her up from school. Again she felt trapped. The very thing that would have protected her if the perpetrator was a stranger (being picked up in a public place) worked against her because she could not get away without calling attention to herself and the situation. (We carpooled with the family so it was normal for him to pick her up.) The perp would tell her that his daughter was just upstairs and would be coming down; my daughter was never in fact sure whether the daughter was actually there and was somehow "in on" things.
She began to dread going to school because she was afraid people knew and were talking about her and would hate her. At the same time her best friend began avoiding her, and she, once again, wrongly interpreted this as the result of her being such a freak. In a questionnaire in a teen journal , in answer to the question “Have you ever been sexually abused?” she wrote “I don’t think so.” Later she crossed out the “don’t”. This was part of the problem. My daughter only knew sex defined as intercourse and she only understood that that was for making babies. She couldn’t see how the activities she was being forced to engage in had anything to do with sex. She just thought they were degrading and disgusting.
She felt completely trapped. She was too ashamed to tell anyone about the assaults - she was afraid she would be in trouble and people would hate her. Without telling there was nothing she could do to stop them - she said she just gave up and did whatever he asked without making a fuss so it would be over with as soon as possible. During the assaults she just “went somewhere else”. In the meantime the two families were becoming closer, as we were frequently and persistently invited for dinner. The other mom and I went out for coffee at least twice a week - she was one of my closest friends and a confidante. We often encouraged our daughter to run over and see what “Q” was up to. We thought we were doing her a favour by helping her develop a healthy friendship. In fact, we were putting her in harm’s way - so much so that she wondered if we even knew about the assaults and approved. In the meantime the perp was telling her how what they were doing was “just something nice friends do for each other”, curiously echoing his daughter who had tearfully told my daughter that if she “was really her friend she would do it (engage in sex play) with her”. The man then sat across the dinner table from us, shared Christmasses with us, while he watched my daughter slowly disintegrate. He knew the awful secret that he had forced her to carry and he did nothing. The evil of this ordinary, unassuming man boggles the mind.
My daughter’s experience is a textbook tragedy which illustrates why we have “age of consent” laws and the illogical, minimizing behavior of the offender. On the one hand they assume that the child is “on par” with them in terms of being able to reason regarding consent; on the other hand they use the child’s lack of knowledge, naiivety and fear in order to trick or coerce them in sexual activity. The typical “non-violent” sexual offender believes that the child is consenting because they don’t resist, or seem willing, when, as in my daughter’s case they simply don’t know how to say no to an adult. They imagine that their attraction to the child is somehow the child's fault. In this case the perp told my daughter "he just couldn't help himself" because of her great "bod" and "that beautiful hair", as if the child has somehow deliberately developed these attributes just to try and attract them. They imagine the child thinks the way they (adults) do when in fact the child may not be thinking at all (disassociating) or making connections which seem ridiculous to adults but make sense to a child who is not far removed from believing in monsters and Santa Claus. In our case, my daughter actually imagined that she may have been responsible for her father’s cancer because she was this “evil freak”. Because she was not able to talk about her terror it became a monster in her head. Just because a child is beginning to develop physically does not mean they are in any way ready for sex. The perp rationalized that he was just giving my daughter a “little harmless eduation”. What he taught her was that she was a worthless creature who only existed for someone else’s gratification and that no one (especially any male) can ever be trusted.
My daughter’s case is currently being considered by the crown prosecutor. We are meeting with them next week. It is extremely unlikely that this man will be convicted as there is no non-circumstantial evidence other than her testimony. The defense is arguing that my daughter is mentally ill and has imagined the whole thing. Once again he perp is using his evil against her. It is his actions which have made her so ill - now he is arguing that because she is ill he obviously can’t be held responsible for any accusations she makes. My daughter seems to be slowly coming back into the light, however. I am beginning to once again hope that she will get well - that she will eventually be happy and productive. She says she does not really care whether or not he is convicted or goes to jail. She just wants to look at him and tells him that she remembers what he did to her and our family. My own urges are much less peaceable.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (127741)
Message 127951 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Posted by bess
on Mar 02, 2004 12:17 PM | Also by bess
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Dear Dead Mom:
I just visited the site for the fist time, read your post and was absolutely flabbergasted as so many of the things you said your daughter is thinking, feeling, and doing are exactly the same as what I went through. Anyway, while you may think you are doing nothing for her, you certainly are! Just telling her that you love her and that she is not worthless will help! It seem like it is not helping to you, and it may seem that she is just “stuck”, but be sure that you are helping nonetheless. If someone was in a very bad car accident, it might take them years to recover and to resume a more or less normal life, right? Well, some emotional injuries can take as long to heal. Still, little by little, things can improve. I wish you and your daughter all the best!
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 128039 (In Reply to Message 127951)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Mar 04, 2004 10:01 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Hi Bess,
I am truly sorry for what you have gone through. Do you mind me asking how old you were when the assaults took place and how old you were when you started to address them. How long did your recovery take? Do you feel recovered now? I know that my daughter's recovery is going to take a long time - she's already been through 4 years of hell. My daughter started noticeably falling apart about 6 months after the assaults ended, has been sick for the past 3 years and only seems to have remembered what had happened (the assults) a few months ago.
When these disclosures first came out, everyone's response was, "So that's it. Well, now that that's out she can really get better." She then proceed to go through the most self-destructive phase yet. I feared for her life everyday. I truly believed she had just given up and I was watching someone drowning. We've been through the worst 3 months of our lives but my daughter seems to be turning a corner the last week or so. She went out and got an shared apartment today with 2 somewhat religious Philipino ladies who have a "no men" rule (music to a mother's ears). I wasn't keen on the whole idea of moving out but I can understand her desire to move out of this town with the perp just around the corner, and also to have some time on her own to sort things out. The apartment is only 20 min away by car and just a few minutes from my sister's place so she still has a lot of supports in place. If it doesn't work, well, she can come home anytime. She dropped off a bunch of job applications and is back to getting her correspondence assignments in regularly. I can't believe it because she missed half the year but it looks as if she will manage to complete this school year - it helps to be smart. She hasn't cut herself for over a week now - so I am hoping that is mostly behind us. She seems to be able to talk a little more about the assults without going into a trance or frenzy.
We saw the crown prosecutor today - he seemed to just want to meet my daughter and see whether she is as delusional as the defense is claiming. Apparently the fact that she has had an eating disorder makes her psychotic as well. The first thing he said was "You don't look anorexic to me" (not the most sensitive thing to say to an anorexic, but anyway). She didn't talk about meeting any angels or UFO's so I think the CP was satisfied. It seems as if her only (and very detailed) delusion is about being assaulted by Mr. Upstanding Citizen, who is apparently "under incredible stress and trauma because of these outrageous accusations" - "his worst nightmare, etc". I'll frickin' show him worst nightmare. Hell hath no fury like a mother bear with an injured cub.
The prosecution doesn't know whether they will go ahead yet or not - they need to feel there is a good chance of success and of course, with only my daughter's story and circumstantial evidence at this point, it would be hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. However, he seems inclined to go ahead with it if my daughter is willing and feels able. My daughter said she felt bad about going to trial because in spite of it all she feels as if she is "betraying" the perp and doesn't really want to hurt him and especially his family. We were driving and I practically ran into a telephone pole. BETRAYAL! After what he did to her and us! Obviously she still needs a LOT of therapy. I also feel very badly for his family. His wife was one of my best friends. But he betrayed them as well - he used his own daughter as bait (and quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he used her in other ways as well). Too bad he wasn't thinking about them 5 years ago.
I saw him out washing his truck the other day and I had an almost uncontrollable urge to run into him and pin his balls to the bumper. I imagined myself echoing his lines "It's really your fault you know. I just couldn't help myself. You shouldn't have been out here in the street where I could run you over." But I didn't. Because to paraphrase Silverstone, I don't think God would like it (he might even give the guy a break on his eternal sentence and I wouldn't want that), I don't want to go to jail (although I think I would have community support) and I have empathy (not for him, the creep, but for his family and mine.) Whether I can continue to control myself without a support group for Mothers with Murderous Fantasies I'm not sure.
Anyway, I guess that turned into a rant. But anger feels better than despair. I wish you all the best as well Bess. It is good to know that things will get better, even if it is "little by little" and not by leaps and bounds.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (127951)
Message 128107 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Posted by bess
on Mar 05, 2004 01:33 PM | Also by bess
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
> Do you mind me asking how old you were when the assaults took
> place
I was 8-years-old. Unlike most children, I guess, I was not abused over a period of time and I didn’t know the attackers. I was raped by two men over a period of a few hours, but there was only this one incident. I never told anyone about it. It would have been obvious that something had happened if any one looked at me, but no one did. You see, while I was never sexually or physically abused by my family, I was neglected. My parents didn’t generally even know if I was home and did not really care. I got my own food, did my own laundry, etc. I could have run around and been wild, but I was “good” instead. Anyway, I was depressed even before I was raped and spent a lot of time by myself in my room avoiding all contact with others. I would sometimes only leave my room when my mother was out, or at night when everyone was sleeping. After I was attacked, this is what I did. Therefore there was nothing really new in my strange behavior. It did go on longer than it ever had before, but no one tried to find out if anything was wrong. Thus, no one ever found out -- much to my relief at the time.
> how old you were when you started to address them.
I guess I always tried to address it in a way. I went over what happened mentally again and again. At first this was in total terror, but after a while I only felt sad. I also tried to figure out why the attackers did this to me. I mean, I understood how, and to a certain extent why, someone you knew would hurt you, but I did not understand why a total stranger would hurt you. When I got older I forced myself to go to places that reminded me of the place where I was attacked and things like that. I never had any kind of therapy and I have never even read a self-help book.
I first mentioned it to someone about a year ago. I am in my mid-forties now. I told three people (two by e-mail and one by letter). One girl never wrote back to me after that. A guy I know said nothing for a long time, but suggested that I e-mail a friend of his who has a reputation of helping people with their problems and helped him quite a bit. So I wrote to this girl. She told me that she had been raped too -- in a “past life” when she was a Priestess in Atlantis! Well, what happened to me was real, so I regarded this as rather insulting.
This experience of telling others was rather distressing to me. At the time I was attacked, I thought that no one would care, that it happened because I was “bad,” and that if I revealed it I would get “in trouble.” I especially thought my parents would not care, as they just did not care about me. So when none of the people I told seemed to care, it was like what I thought originally was true: I was a worthless person whom no one wanted to waste any time about.
> How long did your recovery take? Do you feel recovered now
> I know that my daughter's recovery is going to take a long time --
> she's already been through 4 years of hell. My daughter started
> noticeably falling apart about 6 months after the assaults ended,
> has been sick for the past 3 years and only seems to have
> remembered what had happened (the assults) a few months ago.
I would say that it took decades. I do not feel totally recovered now, but I am certainly much better than I ever thought I could be. When I was young I never thought I could have anything approaching a normal life. Indeed, I was quite sure I would never grow up at all. I was sure I would kill myself first.
I think that if I had some kind of support that I would have done better. That is why I am so glad you are trying to help you daughter! But still, three years or four years is not really that long when one is dealing with a very traumatic event. You shouldn’t get discouraged because things seem to be going slowly. I would say you should even expect her to have relapses now and then. She will have to recover at her own pace. And never, never doubt that by just being there for her and by loving her that you are helping her!
> When these disclosures first came out, everyone's response was,
> "So that's it. Well, now that that's out she can really get better.
> " She then proceed to go through the most self-destructive
> phase yet.
Well, she could probably deal to some extent with her own feelings and with your feelings, but now she had the reactions of these other people to worry about. I am sure she imagined a thousand things hurtful or alarming things they could be thinking. And even if they all mean well, it is uncomfortable to have a private and distressing aspect of your life known.
I would like to comment on some of the other things you have said, but I am afraid that my post would then be too long. Thank you very much for you kind words! I really would like to hear further updates from you!
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 128147 (In Reply to Message 126605)
the power of prayer!
Posted by glasschicken50
on Mar 06, 2004 01:39 PM | Also by glasschicken50
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: West Virginia,
Country: United States |
i believe that bad thing's happen to good people we are living ina mostly sick society for those of you that believe in prayer it is the only comfort sometime's that we have when i read the terrible thing's that man commit's against it 's fellowman it absolutely break's my heart and i feel powerless to help and all that i have left is to pray for myself and my family you and your love one's although i realize that many people pray but the prayer's are powerless to stop what is going on but we need something to cling to for some reason i come to this forum everyday and i read the aweful decision's that our goverment make's and it appear's that enough is not being done to help the situation people that have been violated are left with nowhere to turn i use to vote but i realized this also why waste my time i keep up with the new's and thing as a whole are not getting better they are worse so i ask that you do what you can to maintain and to keep as much sanity in your live's as you can and know that i care and i pray and will continue to do so.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 128169 (In Reply to Message 126605)
deadmomwalking
Posted by cathie
on Mar 07, 2004 03:49 AM | Also by cathie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Connecticut,
Country: United States |
Let me start off by saying you are headed in the right direction in helping your daughter, just by believing her. As for my self and many others who has been molested the most likely response when it does come out is deniel on the parents end. For my self it was with my step brother and it took 20 years for my mother to say she finally believed me and by that time it did not matter. Your daughter will have these pictures in her head for ever they never go away, it is the support that will help her deal with it all in a safe produtive way.
I am not an advocate for inpatient services, to me they look for extra problems, I would recommend a support group in your area check with your local rape crisis center they will direct your in the right direction. I can only tell you to continue to be there for her. You ask why she did not come and tell you, I know when it was happening to me, he brain washed me for many years and I don't know when he started with your daughter but my step brother started with me when I was 5 and at that age I was told by him that he was suppost to do those things to me. It was when I became 14 I asked myself how could my parents not no that this was going on for all those years, How could they not be protecting me and when they did not belieave me when I told them what he was doing to me, it mentaly messed me up for many years. You as a parent don't know what he mentally put her through, more may come out in her therapy. The main thing is not to push her she has been hurt more mentally by a lot of people, and even though not on purpose it has been done and she needs to be around people who have been through the same thing , that's why I recommend a support group.
I wish you all the best, but I wish her freedom from her hell that she has been living in past present and may her future be as free.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 129147 (In Reply to Message 128169)
I dont have a clue ....
Posted by tryingtosurvive
on Mar 25, 2004 04:18 PM | Also by tryingtosurvive
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
My involvement in this forum is as a man in his mid fourties acussed of raping a woman of simialr age. I am innocent but that doesnt prevent the system from all but destroying my life during the interregnum of " do I go to jail for many years or do the jury see the truth? whilst I am on bail`" The process for me and my accuser will be formidable. The legal system is full of rooms with spinning knives installed. I hear your story and my only councell is to consider the hell that trying to bring to justice the perp will wreak upon your lives. The crime that has been commited against your girl demands recourse at law. She is fragile. The perp needs to spend time in prison and only you guys can make it happen. The razor's edge.
Silverthorne is a wiser man than many.
Like I said, I dont have a clue, because my involvement is different .
I can however understand your anger and your desire to scream to the sky at the injustuice. Horrible things happen to decent people.
All I can offer you both is my prayers and hopes for a brand new day .
Blessings TTS
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (128169)
Message 129149 (In Reply to Message 128169)
just a ps
Posted by tryingtosurvive
on Mar 25, 2004 04:36 PM | Also by tryingtosurvive
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
there is no such thing as a ''proud peodo " they are all in denial if they spout this kinda rubbish and thier false justifications showthem for the dangerous deviants they are .
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (128169)
Message 129166 (In Reply to Message 129149)
TTS
Posted by dp1
on Mar 25, 2004 10:54 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I could not have said it any better, Bravo! Denial is when the rest of us can see what someone can't.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (129149)
Message 130538 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Your daughters story is my own
Posted by thumper
on Apr 16, 2004 07:47 PM | Also by thumper
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
I want to first say that... I love you. You are a wonderful mother. My step-father melested/raped me from about the age of 7 to 14 and i still get flashbacks of when i was younger than 7 living at our old house and things happening then as well.. My mother knows what has happened.. I know she knows, we just never talk about it. Its not mentioned. He still lives with us and well, i see and deal with him everyday, but its never mentioned. I just wanted to say i love you because my mom has hexed me since i was a kid. i know now its because she knows what happened. and i hate her for that. i also have alot of the same problems you mentioned your daughter had. I thought it was just me that i was fine even though i was abused. but now im seeing im just a statistic. eventhough i think im fine and normal i know im not. i want to say i hope your daughter fairs better and i truly am sorry. But you are a wonderful caring person and im just happy your daughter has you. you will be her backbone.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 130558 (In Reply to Message 130538)
thumper
Posted by dp1
on Apr 17, 2004 04:17 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Hello and welcome to the forum. I read your post in disbelief. Are you saying that you are still living with the man that molested you? Why don't you just pick up the phone and call the police?
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (130538)
Message 130565 (In Reply to Message 130538)
thumper
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Apr 17, 2004 08:00 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Hi thumper
I am very sorry for what you have gone through. I hope you can find some sort of peace and move on but you won't be able to do that living under the same roof as the man who molested you. My daughter found that even living in the same community was too stressful - she was incredibly anxious about even going to the grocery store lest she run into the perp or his wife or daughter. We have set her up in a small apartment in the next town - she still comes home quite a bit, but it gives her a refuge. I have to say that when my daughter first disclosed her abuse and wouldn't tell us who it was I went through a whole list of possibilities in my head that included family members, even, God forbid, her father. I had to consider the worst possibilities and know that I could face it. I knew that no matter who it was I would not allow that person to get near her again - and if that meant pullling up stakes, emptying the bank account and moving across the country that is what I would do. At the same time, DP, I don't think I would have gone to the police if it was a member of the family. I would have confronted the person and made sure other people with kids were warned but I would have probaby done it quietly. From what I've seen these things in families tear the family to shreds - and cause the victim even more pain because they lose even more needed support. However if my daughter wanted to take it to the police I would have supported her.
Even as it is, I think my daughter is extremely regretful that the police became involved. She feels very guilty about the hurt done to the perp's daughter and wife, although, of course, I have told her that the pain they are going through is yet another consequence of his evil actions, not her refusing to keep his dirty secret any more. We were not eager to go to the police, however there was a lot of pressure on my daughter to do so from social workers, friends, etc. She was made to feel guilty about possible other victims. She was told the perp needed "help". She was told that it was even possible he had molested his own daughter - her friend. Social Services actually began investigating our family because of our delay in reporting to the police - they initially felt we weren't begin proactive enough in keeping our daughter safe. We were between a rock and a hard place. We promised my daughter we wouldn't do anything until she was ready and that we would support any decision she made. She did not want to go to the police, so we respected that. At the same time we had to try and avoid this family who had been our best friends without twigging them that something was going on in case the police did become involved. However we couldn't continue as normal because we needed to keep the perp and his family away from our daughter, not to mention that we wanted to keep them away from us.
A nurse in the hospital (where my daughter was for a suicide attempt) phoned the police when we were out of town for a few days and they arrive and sat there until my daughter agreed to give a statement. Truthfully, I was not very happy with the way things were handled. The police fed my daughter the same stories - that other girls needed protection, that the perp needed help, that it would probably be a relief to him to be able to get the secret out and that he would probably confess (yeah, right!)
Your stepfather should indeed be held accountable, as should the creep that has ruined my daughter's life, but the fact is that we would be lucky to get a conviction, and even if we did it is unlikely he would serve any time. The important thing is to concentrate on you, not him. I desperately wish, as does my daughter, that we could go back in time - but we can't - we can only lurch forward. My daughter's sense of herself is in tatters and she needs to rebuilt that. Every day I try and remind of of the positive things - the personal strengths, the resources - that she still has under the rubble of the abuse. She is bright, she is compassionate, she is loving, she is multi-talented. All the raw materials are still there to become a wonderful adult - she just needs to rebuild the vessel to hold them. I am sure you also have wonderful qualities (don't worry - you don't have to feel embarassed or ashamed hearing this from me - you don't know me!) and the raw materials to make a future for yourself. I hope you are getting some therapy or have some one to talk to about this. There is hope. A couple of months ago I despaired of even keeping my daughter alive - but little by little she is coming out into the light as she realizes that she is no longer carrying the entire burden of that dark secret. She is dancing again. She is getting her schooling done. She is looking for work. If you want to pm me please do so, if I can be of any help.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (130538)
Message 130602 (In Reply to Message 130538)
Thumper
Posted by Silverthorne
on Apr 18, 2004 03:30 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
Hi Thumper. I'm happy to welcome you to the board. I'd ask you about your relationship today with your father. You said you just don't discuss it with him. It sounds like a real "wall of silence" in your family. Do you have other siblings and were they molested as well? If so have you talked amongst yourself?
Not dealing and confronting abuse isn't a good road to go down. Even if you don't deal with your abuser you need to deal with yourself. Have you talked to anyone about what happend to you? Read any good abuse books or anything?
Silverthorne
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (130538)
Message 131206 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Posted by betsemes
on Apr 22, 2004 03:26 PM | Also by betsemes
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Puerto Rico |
Hi, after so many responses charged with much emotions, mine will feel cold, but I hope it will be helpful. This is just a recommendation, so do with this what you want. Conventional therapy is very slow and, as some people said, it never cures a trauma, it just teaches the victim how to get over it. You could go to http://www.emofree.com/ site and look into this. You could react to this with disbelief, but I'd bet that this could put an end to your daughter's suffering. It has the potential of actually curing your daughter's PTSD. Sounds unbelievable, yes. I just recommend that you look into this seriously and open-mindedly. Somewhere in this site, there is a list of practitioners, maybe you could go see one.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 131220 (In Reply to Message 131206)
To betsemes
Posted by TGoodman
on Apr 22, 2004 06:38 PM | Also by TGoodman
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Kansas,
Country: United States |
As another that has PTSD (and my daughter too) I just wanted to say thanks for posting this link. I checked out the website and found it has lots of potentially helpful things there.
Thanks again
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131206)
Message 131249 (In Reply to Message 131206)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Apr 22, 2004 09:40 PM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Thanks for the link. I am going to read more about it. I have been trying to convince my daughter to see a neighbour who is a healer and uses what appears to be similar methods, that is a western adaptation of eastern medicine. She finds blockages in the "chi" or body's energy flow and taps or massages gently on those spots or applies homeopathic remedies. She believes the perp has left a piece of himself in my daughter, as least in my daughter's mind. Because he made my daughter perform oral sex on him she has a continuing sense of being "dirty" and "defiled". For example, when she went for counselling and examination and a sexual abuse medical clinic she asked if his DNA could "still be inside her" (this 5 years after the fact). The healer goes on soul journeys or dream journeys with the clients to find this injured parts of their souls. OK, I know this sounds incredibly hokey but I don't think it is the science that is important - it is the symbolism. In the case of damage to the soul or self, ritual and symbol can be more powerful healers than any meds or even counselling.
However, so far I haven't been able to convince my daughter to go. Partly it is her natural shyness, partly she has inherited her father's analytical mind and is a doubting Thomas but mostly she can't stand being touched.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131206)
Message 131323 (In Reply to Message 126605)
Shamans and other healers
Posted by bess
on Apr 23, 2004 07:57 AM | Also by bess
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
There are certainly those who call themselves Shamans who can go on their journeys without touching the person involved. One might be tempted to say, “even if there is nothing to it, it can’t hurt” … but I wouldn’t say this myself. I would definitely check the healer’s over-all philosophy. There are “healers” who believe that some people draw evil to themselves and are therefore responsible for their own suffering. Indeed, I would say that the majority may believe this, although many phrase their ideas in such a way to make this not so clear. Some even say that if one is the victim of something that would generally be regarded as a random misfortune -- say, being in a car accident caused by a drunk driver -- that one drew this misfortune to oneself. Plus, they sometimes say that the victim spreads his “bad energy” (or whatever they wish to call it) to others. Needless to say, such ideas may not be very healthy for your daughter being very close to her own fears.
I am not saying that all Shamans are bad, but just like anything else, one should keep one’s eyes open. Check up on the healer just as you would a dentist or plumber.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Message 131333 (In Reply to Message 131249)
Posted by betsemes
on Apr 23, 2004 02:18 PM | Also by betsemes
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Puerto Rico |
Hi again, please, don't call yourself "dead mom walking", your are pretty much alive and seeking help; you have demonstrated so pretty much. Those are self-defeating thoughts that cannot help you and will make your efforts for helping your daughter much more difficult.
>>>Thanks for the link. I am going to read more about it. I have been trying to convince my daughter to see a neighbour who is a healer and uses what appears to be similar methods, that is a western adaptation of eastern medicine. She finds blockages in the "chi" or body's energy flow and taps or massages gently on those spots or applies homeopathic remedies.>She believes the perp has left a piece of himself in my daughter, as least in my daughter's mind. Because he made my daughter perform oral sex on him she has a continuing sense of being "dirty" and "defiled". For example, when she went for counselling and examination and a sexual abuse medical clinic she asked if his DNA could "still be inside her" (this 5 years after the fact). The healer goes on soul journeys or dream journeys with the clients to find this injured parts of their souls. OK, I know this sounds incredibly hokey but I don't think it is the science that is important - it is the symbolism. In the case of damage to the soul or self, ritual and symbol can be more powerful healers than any meds or even counselling.
However, so far I haven't been able to convince my daughter to go. Partly it is her natural shyness, partly she has inherited her father's analytical mind and is a doubting Thomas but mostly she can't stand being touched
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131249)
Message 131336 (In Reply to Message 131333)
Posted by betsemes
on Apr 23, 2004 02:56 PM | Also by betsemes
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Puerto Rico |
What happened to my post? Is there a restriction on how long it should be? It doesn't say anything!!!!!!!!
This is what I wrote:
Hi again, please, don't call yourself "dead mom walking", your are pretty much alive and seeking help; you have demonstrated so pretty much. Those are self-defeating thoughts that cannot help you and will make your efforts for helping your daughter much more difficult.
>>>Thanks for the link. I am going to read more about it. I have been trying to convince my daughter to see a neighbour who is a healer and uses what appears to be similar methods, that is a western adaptation of eastern medicine. She finds blockages in the "chi" or body's energy flow and taps or massages gently on those spots or applies homeopathic remedies.>She believes the perp has left a piece of himself in my daughter, as least in my daughter's mind. Because he made my daughter perform oral sex on him she has a continuing sense of being "dirty" and "defiled". For example, when she went for counselling and examination and a sexual abuse medical clinic she asked if his DNA could "still be inside her" (this 5 years after the fact). The healer goes on soul journeys or dream journeys with the clients to find this injured parts of their souls. OK, I know this sounds incredibly hokey but I don't think it is the science that is important - it is the symbolism. In the case of damage to the soul or self, ritual and symbol can be more powerful healers than any meds or even counselling.
However, so far I haven't been able to convince my daughter to go. Partly it is her natural shyness, partly she has inherited her father's analytical mind and is a doubting Thomas but mostly she can't stand being touched
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131333)
Message 131353 (In Reply to Message 131336)
Posted by steve
on Apr 23, 2004 04:55 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
What happened to my post? Is there a restriction on how long it should be? It doesn't say anything!!!!!!!
No text length restriction. Well, technically there is, but it's well more than 100 times as long as your post.
This is what I wrote
As far as I can tell it's identical to your first post. The database where the post is stored doesn't show any more text. Please contact me privately to discuss so I can troubleshoot the problem if there is one. You can either use the site's contact form which means I'll probably see your message eventually or the site's Private Message tool which means I'll definitely see it and see it quickly.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131336)
Message 131364 (In Reply to Message 131353)
Posted by betsemes
on Apr 23, 2004 05:18 PM | Also by betsemes
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Puerto Rico |
OK, then. Seems I saw what happened; but it's strange, when I saw the preview, it appeared intact, then when I saw it posted, it was severely chopped. I just used three "greater than" characters to open the quotes and three "less than" characters to close the quotes. Here is my post once again:
Hi again, please, don't call yourself "dead mom walking", your are pretty much alive and seeking help; you have demonstrated so pretty much. Those are self-defeating thoughts that cannot help you and will make your efforts for helping your daughter much more difficult.
Start of quote:
Thanks for the link. I am going to read more about it. I have been trying to convince my daughter to see a neighbour who is a healer and uses what appears to be similar methods, that is a western adaptation of eastern medicine. She finds blockages in the "chi" or body's energy flow and taps or massages gently on those spots or applies homeopathic remedies.
End of quote.
Seems that you are referring to Qigong. I have read about it and I have an audio tape course called "Spring Forest Qigong" by Master Chunyi Lin and sold by Learning Strategies Corporation (just in case you are interested, please don't be annoyed by the propaganda-like mention). I have level one only which fosuses on healing ourselves. It supposedly develops a chi pattern that leads to remove chi blockages in our bodies. The theory is something like we have some energy (chi) channels in our body that brings chi to all parts of our body (like an energy circulatory system). When blockages develop, not enough energy reaches some parts of our body and we get sick as a consequence. Supposedly by removing those blockages, we can restore chi circulation and thus the body heals. Precisely one of the chief causes of blockages are self-limiting emotions and traumas are among the strongest.
But I'm not talking about Qigong. EFT is something different. EFT is one of the various modalities of what is called "energy psychology". Energy Psychology is a form or "psychological accupressure"; by tapping some energy meridian points, we solve the disrruptions in the nervous system that happen to cause negative emotions. Spring Forest Qigong (I don't know what that healer you mentioned says about what she practices) is intended chiefly for healing the body although can be used for healing emotions too. EFT is used for healing emotions but it has healed somatic symptoms too (maybe psycho-somatic symptoms).
Start of quote:
She believes the perp has left a piece of himself in my daughter, as least in my daughter's mind. Because he made my daughter perform oral sex on him she has a continuing sense of being "dirty" and "defiled". For example, when she went for counselling and examination and a sexual abuse medical clinic she asked if his DNA could "still be inside her" (this 5 years after the fact). The healer goes on soul journeys or dream journeys with the clients to find this injured parts of their souls. OK, I know this sounds incredibly hokey but I don't think it is the science that is important - it is the symbolism. In the case of damage to the soul or self, ritual and symbol can be more powerful healers than any meds or even counselling.
However, so far I haven't been able to convince my daughter to go. Partly it is her natural shyness, partly she has inherited her father's analytical mind and is a doubting Thomas but mostly she can't stand being touched
End of quote.
Yessss, you are open enough to try something else. I'm going to suggest some things that could easy your daughter's decision to try EFT. You could tell her that this can heal her PTSD completely, and this doesn't require that she be touched in any way. Check out this: http://www.emofree.com/trauma/ptsd-memory.htm. The common mechanics that goes on is that the practitioner taps in his/her own body thus indicating the patient how to do it, then the patient herself taps on her own body, this has the added benefit that the patient herself learns how to apply EFT by herself thus applying it even in her home or wherever she wants to. The practioner doesn't need to touch her in any way. Yet, the tap could begin with the initial intention of colapsing the hatred to be touch although it is much more possible that it would not subside until the underlying issues collapse as well. Then she will be able to date boys, get married and have sex normally as if she never was abused.
Another thing that you could try is buying the DVD course and learning EFT yourself in order to help your daughter. This link http://www.emofree.com/trauma/beginnercollapsesPTSD.htm tells the story of a beginner that collapsed her own PTSD. It is so simple that anyone could use it by themselves, so you can learn it and help your daughter. The basic course costs $60.00, a small fraction of what costs years of therapy and it is, in my opinion, well worth the price.
You can also go to http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse.htm. This is an online manual by Dr. Joseph Mercola that teaches Dr. Mercola's revision of EFT. I have Dr. Mercola's DVD course and I have tried EFT on myself, I can tell you it works, even though I don't have traumas like your daughter's. It works not just for traumas or severe emotional conditions, but for any kind of emotion. YOu yourself could learn it and apply it to yourself. Evidently you are suffering too and EFT can help you as well.
If you really really love your daughter, you will go to any extent to help her. Please, consider this, it's very much worth a try. Just a word of warning; if that man have not been prosecuted yet and the case is not finished, then you might want to wait until the case is closed. You see, EFT can be so effective that it can remove any trace of emotional damage, leaving you with no case at all. In other words, nobody will believe you or your daughter. It's painful to suggest this because during that time she will continue suffering from PTSD during a process that will likely damage her further and he could possibly not been incarcerated. One of the cases told at the EFT website is on a girl that was raped by her boyfriend. The practitioner that saw her case warned her just this and she opted to deal with her trauma right away instead of waiting. By what she tells, she never regretted it; and afterwards, she felt genuinely sorry for her raper. Just something you may want to consider.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131353)
Message 131375 (In Reply to Message 131364)
Explanation of what happened to your post
Posted by steve
on Apr 23, 2004 06:03 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
OK, then. Seems I saw what happened; but it's strange, when I saw the preview, it appeared intact, then when I saw it posted, it was severely chopped. I just used three "greater than" characters to open the quotes and three "less than" characters to close the quotes.
The language of the web, HTML, uses tags inside those same characters to make text bold, italics, change font sizes, define layout, etc. Except for the a tag (hyperlink tag), all other HTML tags are stripped from posts for reasons I'll be glad to address in the Off Topic forum if anyone wants to discuss. Your use of greater than and less than characters in that way caused everything in between to be considered an HTML tag and were stripped when you submitted your posts. For quoting text please use the custom "quote" tags that are explained between the message title and body on all forum posting screens.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131364)
Message 131485 (In Reply to Message 131364)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Apr 24, 2004 08:21 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
thanks again for your advice. I will check out the EFT and I will take your advice about trying it on myself. I have had a tough time emotionally as well, although you are right - dead mom walking doesn't quite fit anymore. When I first joined this discussion board it's what I felt like because the whole thing was pretty new and my daughter was begin extremely self destructive - suicide attempts, slashing herself everywhere, flashbacks and disassociative episodes; there were lots of trips to emergency wards. I still can't think about it without crying. In order to cope I had to shut myself down emotionally but keep going - I literally felt like the walking dead. Now that the worst of the crisis has passed I find myself giving vent to a lot of the grief and anger I had to suppress before and I need to move on for my family's sake - so maybe I will try your suggestion and see how it works for me. I I don't know why I visit this board - it often just upsets me. I wanted to try and figure out WHY this happened by looking into the thinking of SO's. Perhaps it is a sort of desensitization therapy. And every now and then I do get some very helpful advice.
As to the court proceedings, I don't really give a s***. The police have their agenda, and while I sympathise with their desire to protect others, their agenda is not ours. I am hoping the court decides not to proceed because I think it will do far more damage to my daughter than to him. However, in fairness, the crown prosecutor's main qualm about proceeding seems to be his concern for my daughter's well-being. My concern is solely for my daughter's recovery. If we decide at some later point to make him accountable there are a number of other avenues available. In any case, I believe that is why the police rushed in when she first disclosed and got a statement before the counsellors had a chance to get at her and start "processing" the abuse. Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view, there had been no discussions of possible sexual abuse by her previous therapist, so her disclosure was "clean" in that sense. I think that any further disclosures that come out now in therapy, unless they can be otherwise verified, will be viewed as being "tainted" by the court.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131364)
Message 131486 (In Reply to Message 131323)
Posted by deadmomwalking
on Apr 24, 2004 08:25 AM | Also by deadmomwalking
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Canada |
Hi Bess,
Yes I am well aware of that aspect of both Shamanistic and eastern religion. In fact some Christians think the same way, eg. if something bad happens to you it is because you are bad and being punished. And you are right - this is exactly the way my daughter thinks - this is what her abuser told her or her interpretation of what he said anyway and she has internalized it for 4 years now. However the healer that I am thinking of visiting has no such philosophy, and has known my daughter since she was a little girl and is exceedingly fond of her.
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (131323)
Message 133583 (In Reply to Message 126605)
My daughter and I both feel your Pain!
Posted by greatdad53
on May 14, 2004 02:20 AM | Also by greatdad53
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oklahoma,
Country: United States |
Patience understanding, and love, will you get through. I know it doesnt seem like it, but turn to your higher power, and gain strength and peace through him.My daughter turned to drugs, and still I was oblivious as to what was going on, I blamed myself for not noticing, or for not being more safety conscious, I blamed myself for everything, and then I realized through my prayers and my tears, that it wasnt me or my daughters fault!!! we were not the guily ones, we were the victims. But now we are both learning that we dont have to stay the victims. We share the hurt and the pain, and we both have a higher sense of love and committment, and we so want to try and pass our love and understanding to others who also feel the pain. Anytime you need to talk, and I mean that....I am here......
Forum Home
| Top of Thread | Jump To Parent (126605)
Thread
126605, deadmomwalking, Jan 31, 2004 07:29 AM
126650, Silverthorne, Jan 31, 2004 11:31 PM [Hello DMW]
126812, deadmomwalking, Feb 03, 2004 05:39 AM
126999, PVulcan, Feb 08, 2004 01:43 PM [Hi Mom]
127741, Rachel, Feb 25, 2004 01:09 PM [If you need someone to talk to....]
127824, deadmomwalking, Feb 27, 2004 10:09 PM
127951, bess, Mar 02, 2004 12:17 PM
128039, deadmomwalking, Mar 04, 2004 10:01 AM
128107, bess, Mar 05, 2004 01:33 PM
128147, glasschicken50, Mar 06, 2004 01:39 PM [the power of prayer!]
128169, cathie, Mar 07, 2004 03:49 AM [deadmomwalking]
129147, tryingtosurvive, Mar 25, 2004 04:18 PM [I dont have a clue ....]
129149, tryingtosurvive, Mar 25, 2004 04:36 PM [just a ps]
129166, dp1, Mar 25, 2004 10:54 PM [TTS]
130538, thumper, Apr 16, 2004 07:47 PM [Your daughters story is my own]
130558, dp1, Apr 17, 2004 04:17 AM [thumper]
130565, deadmomwalking, Apr 17, 2004 08:00 AM [thumper]
130602, Silverthorne, Apr 18, 2004 03:30 AM [Thumper]
130539, Rejected
131206, betsemes, Apr 22, 2004 03:26 PM
131220, TGoodman, Apr 22, 2004 06:38 PM [To betsemes]
131249, deadmomwalking, Apr 22, 2004 09:40 PM
131333, betsemes, Apr 23, 2004 02:18 PM
131336, betsemes, Apr 23, 2004 02:56 PM
131353, steve, Apr 23, 2004 04:55 PM
131364, betsemes, Apr 23, 2004 05:18 PM
131375, steve, Apr 23, 2004 06:03 PM [Explanation of what happened ...]
131485, deadmomwalking, Apr 24, 2004 08:21 AM
131323, bess, Apr 23, 2004 07:57 AM [Shamans and other healers]
131486, deadmomwalking, Apr 24, 2004 08:25 AM
133583, greatdad53, May 14, 2004 02:20 AM [My daughter and I both feel your Pain!]
Forum Home
| Top of Thread
|
|
|
