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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): Victims - what happens when they dont come to terms - Rachel
Message 124677
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 11, 2004 12:02 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
This post deals with Victims of sexual abuse and how they can suffer ill effects if they dont deal with the results of thier abuse. I'll be using myself as a "living laboratory" here.
First read my story here so you know what happend to me:
http://www.sexcriminals.com/forums/101/12236/121554.html
Silverthorne the Victim:
Ive never really thought of myself as a victim. Because I've had to deal with my problem (pedophilia) and its unhealthy urges thru therapy there really hasnt been time. Ive been willing to say "Im fine" and "Im over it" but clearly Im not. Now that my problem is under control and not an issue for me I find Im dealing with new feelings and emotions resulting from my experience. While I may have forgiven the man who raped me years ago I find Im still very angry over my life as its played out because of it.
Why Im angry
1) Im not "normal" sexually. Im not hetrosexual (or homosexual for that matter). Because my attractions lie elsewhere I'll never experience "true love". Oh sure I may have substitutes but it will always be "second best". That makes me angry.
2) Im a loner. I spend all my time alone. I hate people. Even going out to eat is a nightmare for me. Im so self-conscious.
3) I cant get clean. Sometimes I feel so "dirty". Like I cant scrub away what happend in the shower. Just remember what he did to me reminds me how invasive and painful it was. It was truly a case of "taking me". I feel he took something I'll never get back.
4) I have phobias about my safety. I check the door locks 5x a night. I lock my bedroom door. I have guns around. Im paranoid but I dont know of what. I just feel "unsafe" alot.
5) I want to be a dad. I want a son. I think I'd be a great father. I know I wouldn't do anything. But I can't. Who can take the chance. I'm angry the joy of fatherhood has been stolen from me like this. Im angry that I know I cant have this experience. Hell I get angry seeing the tax rebates for parents and their kids when I cant get one. Its displaced. Its not the real reason Im angry . Im angry because I'm not a parent.
6) My parents. Im angry at the way its affected my parents. My mother especially. She needs some serious therapy (finally getting some - started last week - thank GOD!!!). Im angry.
7) Marriage. Im angry Im not attracted to women. I'd love to get married, have a wife, but seeing as Im not attracted to them its a problem. I get angry at tax breaks for families and lower tax limits for couples but Im not really mad at the government. Again its displaced anger about my situation.
Clearly I have vicitm issues. Why am I so angry? What can I do to get over it?
Im seeing someone next week about it. I hope they can help. I hope they can "fix me" although I have doubts. Clearly though by not addressing these victims issues early on I've paid a price.
So my message is simple. If your a vicitm get help. If your a parent of a victim you too should get help. Sexual abuse affects everyone.
Silverthorne
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Message 124693 (In Reply to Message 124677)
Victim Issues
Posted by dp1
on Jan 11, 2004 02:49 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Silverthorne,
I was just wondering. As a victim yourself, would you or other victims feel more comfortable with a separate forum for victims only? Maybe a place where victims can go like here, but with no fear of being attacked or ridiculed by others? This forum is great but let’s face it, it does have a high percentage of “pedos” whereby the discussions tend to focus on sex offender issues (don’t get me wrong this is good) but victims surely have other more sensitive issues and may be frightened off by such matters.
It would seem logical to me that maybe someone like you, or Anti (now that she’s back) would be more suited in a victim’s only forum or thread so that the victim issues are the issue not the continued abuse or the constant reminder of sex offending behavior. What do you think?
DP1
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Message 124702 (In Reply to Message 124693)
Victims
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 11, 2004 05:44 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
A victims forum would be nice as long as they could be kept separate. What I mean is I wouldnt like to see it degenerate into a "victim vs. so" type board like the old one was. The board here now is very well behaved and mature. We get alot accomplished and we all respect each others views.
Its really up to Steve. One benefit to a victims board might be encouraging people to post. Im sure many victims see this board and see there are SO's and pedophiles here and don't want to post. It might encourage more participation.
Steve?
Silverthorne
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Message 124718 (In Reply to Message 124702)
What About?
Posted by dp1
on Jan 11, 2004 03:02 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I sometimes wonder how many victims actually log on but are afraid to post because of the sex offender population already posting to this forum. Do you think maybe a poll would be in order to actually ask people visiting the site on their feelings towards having a victims only thread/forum, whatever?
DP1
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Message 124729 (In Reply to Message 124702)
Posted by orolan
on Jan 11, 2004 05:26 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I agree. I think a forum for victims to talk to each other is a great idea. Since I'm not a victim, I wouldn't post in such a forum. Chances are, most other posters that aren't victims wouldn't, either. But I would want to read the posts from time to time.
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Message 124739 (In Reply to Message 124729)
Yes
Posted by dp1
on Jan 11, 2004 06:45 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I like the forum as it is now as far as pedo vs. victim issues etc...But, not all victims are inclined to talk, post, or communicate in any way with pedo. Nor would they appreciate anything they had to say. Showing respect as you stated Orolan is a great way to start the healing process. You're right, reading posts by victims would be very interesting and enlightening particularly if they post honestly without fear of being slammed. I think we'd be amazed at how well the victims could bond and help each other by passing on useful information instead of debating the usefulness of a sex registry, don't ya think?
DP1
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Message 124755 (In Reply to Message 124718)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 11, 2004 07:48 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
"Do you think maybe a poll would be in order to actually ask people visiting the site on their feelings towards having a victims only thread/forum, whatever? "
Weve got a victims corner forum now so hopefully that will help. Im posting there already as a victim. I think its important to keep that forum for victims issues only and not so related stuff like the main forum. Of course SO can post there though but Id hope it remains fight-free and a place to get help.
Silverthorne
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Message 124761 (In Reply to Message 124677)
The other "big thing" Im angry about
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 11, 2004 07:54 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
There is one other "big thing" Im very angry about. Its probably the one thing that reminds me constantly of what happend.
Ive mentioned I was disfigured by this man. I also mentioned that after he raped me I started bedwetting and later when thru an experiemental surgery to stop that (it expanded the urethra (widend it - very painful)).
What I havent talked about is after the surgery I would have to go for "stretching" of the urethra. Basically he'd insert a probe type thing into my uretrha, progressively larger, to expand it. It hurt like hell to be honest. I screamed, it bled, it was horrible. To this day I still am more affected by that "cure" then the rape itself. I can still remember the pain. It was worse then being raped.
Last year I finally told my parents about the way that affected me. Because the bedwetting was caused by the rape (a psychological result) I blame the surgery on the guy who molested me too. But when I told my parents it hit them hard. They wanted to help me. They didnt have any idea this guy was a quack and the procedure was useless. I endured two of those surgeries and five or six "office visits". At least in surgery I was asleep. For the office visits I was wide awake. I can still remember hearing kids scream while I was in the waiting room. I have a real idea what Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is like for war veterans.
So I have alot of anger toward the disfigurement I suffered both at the hands of the teacher (was kind of mild) and the doctor (was very noticable and I'm very self conscious). The fact I cant use a stand up urinal (and couldnt thru school) is something that makes me angry. I guess I have alot of anger.
Silverthorne
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Message 124762 (In Reply to Message 124718)
Posted by steve
on Jan 11, 2004 07:55 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
I sometimes wonder how many victims actually log on but are afraid to post because of the sex offender population already posting to this forum.
dp1, I'm sure a lot of victims and others like their friends, family and people would be glad to participate by supporting and advising victims and others don't because of some of the views and experiences of people who post here regularly. The new forum, Victims' Corner is now live. It'll be moderated like the other forums and emphasis will be put on ensuring that it's a safe place for victims to post.
I'll also be going through old threads to find any that are appropriate for moving to that forum. If any users know of threads I should consider or want to help by spending some time looking it would be appreciated. Just send the thread ID numbers by Private Message to me.
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Message 124896 (In Reply to Message 124677)
Questions for Silver
Posted by dp1
on Jan 13, 2004 05:00 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Silver,
I love your post. You are able to articulate your feelings very well and they seem very appropriate. But, you know me, I have some questions and observations I'd like to share if that's ok?
Ive never really thought of myself as a victim.
What do you mean? Were you thinking you consented to sex with your teacher? Was it your fault he attacked you? If you were born female and the same thing occurred do you think you may have thought you were a victim at the onset of the crime?
While I may have forgiven the man who raped me years ago I find Im still very angry over my life as its played out because of it.
Have you really forgiven this man? Really? Or is it just a nice thing to say because you have Christian values and choose not to show your anger? Can it be true that you’ve forgiven him and not yourself? That wouldn’t seem fair since you haven’t done anything and he has completely ruined your life. Screw him. He doesn’t need to be forgiven. Wouldn’t it be more productive to forgive yourself? Who gives a crap about him? He sure as hell didn’t care about you now did he, Silver?
Im not "normal" sexually. Im not hetrosexual (or homosexual for that matter). Because my attractions lie elsewhere I'll never experience "true love". Oh sure I may have substitutes but it will always be "second best". That makes me angry.
I don’t buy any of that Silver; it’s all rhetoric to justify why you don’t get on with life and engage in an adult/adult relationship. Why not just get right to it and say that you’re scared to approach adults (male or females) for the purpose of a satisfying relationship?
Im a loner. I spend all my time alone. I hate people. Even going out to eat is a nightmare for me. Im so self-conscious.
Sorry. My denial continues. If you hated people you wouldn’t even be interacting on this site. I haven’t seen any evidence of hate for humanity in your posts. You are always polite, friendly and respectful of others. If you hated people your posts would reflect anger, disrespect and zero tolerance for other viewpoints.
My parents. Im angry at the way its affected my parents. My mother especially. She needs some serious therapy (finally getting some - started last week - thank GOD!!!). Im angry.
Yeah but you have some control over that. Surely they would get over it if they saw that you got over it. Better reason to continue with victim therapy and focus on getting on with life without labeling yourself as a result of the abuse.
Marriage. Im angry Im not attracted to women. I'd love to get married, have a wife, but seeing as Im not attracted to them its a problem.
Silver, this makes no sense. Why would you love the idea about marrying a women if you weren’t attracted? Obviously you are attracted to women or you wouldn’t have this thought. Who’s in denial, you or me? Didn’t you mention in another thread that you found a certain female (movie star or something like that) attractive? I haven’t heard you say that you’re attracted to any men lately?
Im seeing someone next week about it. I hope they can help.
I hope you keep an open mind and let them help.
I hope they can "fix me" although I have doubts.
I have no doubts that you will fix yourself. It certainly would be a lot easier if you had faith in yourself and started trusting other people, don’t ya think?
DP1
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Message 124903 (In Reply to Message 124896)
Victim Questions - answers from Silverthorne
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 13, 2004 06:25 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
Good questions DP1, Ill try to answer them for you.
"Ive never really thought of myself as a victim.(silverthorne)
What do you mean? (DP1)"
I guess I mean Ive been so wrapped up in other problems in my life I've never really viewed myself as a traditional "victim". I mean in retrospect I've been damaged far worse then most abuse victims yet I didn't really view myself as a victim because it wasn't helpful at the time. Victim=Anger. Maybe I was avoiding the anger I feel now?
"Have you really forgiven this man? Really? Or is it just a nice thing to say because you have Christian values and choose not to show your anger? Can it be true that you’ve forgiven him and not yourself?"
Actually yes I forgave him. You forget my problems sexually have forced me to understand just how something like this happens. I can "see" how someone can do something like this. I'll never understand though how someone can NOT resist. I mean I've been controlling my life all along. I get angry when I read about people who give in and hurt others.
"I don’t buy any of that Silver; it’s all rhetoric to justify why you don’t get on with life and engage in an adult/adult relationship. Why not just get right to it and say that you’re scared to approach adults (male or females) for the purpose of a satisfying relationship? "
Yes and no. I am very paranoid about letting people close to me. But dont forget I'm not sexually attracted to them. I guess if a "satisfying relationship" can be had without sex I'd be capable of having one?
"Sorry. My denial continues. If you hated people you wouldn’t even be interacting on this site. I haven’t seen any evidence of hate for humanity in your posts. You are always polite, friendly and respectful of others. If you hated people your posts would reflect anger, disrespect and zero tolerance for other viewpoints."
Most victims of sexual abuse will be able to relate to this. Its "the act". The act is what you do when your around other people. They think your happy, getting by fine, enjoying life. I go out with a smile, Im friendly, even today I had a guy comment to me "your very outgoing" (he was trying to offer me a job - I was a customer). I'm kind of the same way here. While I'm not "lying" or anything here I am able to maintain this facade because I'm anonymous. Its easier to talk about yourself this way. My "hatred" of humanity is a little misstated. I guess it would be better to say I enjoy my own company. I like to be alone. I often find myself very anxious around other people. It all relates to retreating into a shell. Another common behavior of abuse victims.
"Why would you love the idea about marrying a women if you weren’t attracted? Obviously you are attracted to women or you wouldn’t have this thought. "
Im in love with the "image" of marriage. You forget I'm a Mormon. Religion and marriage is a big deal in my church. I love the "image" of marriage. In other words I'd like to feel what my married friends obviously feel. Im upset that I dont.
Good questions DP1
Silverthorne
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Message 124928 (In Reply to Message 124903)
Silver
Posted by dp1
on Jan 13, 2004 02:49 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
[quoteI can "see" how someone can do something like this. I'll never understand though how someone can NOT resist. I mean I've been controlling my life all along. I get angry when I read about people who give in and hurt others.
No kidding! There's no excuse other than anger getting the best of them. You're a better person than I am I guess. I see no reason to forgive the offender BEFORE you forgive yourself. Forgiving yourself and accepting the fact that it was a selfish act on his part seems like the key to healing as far as I see it. It is so confusing from the child victim standpoint as to why the child could not say, "No" or stop the abuse some way. You were guilty of innocence which he decided to take from you without permission.
Silver, you hinted at religion in your post and how it affects values on marriage. How do your religious values effect how a victim of sexual abuse is viewed? Homosexual behavior? Is it viewed as something dirty? Nasty? Would you be judged as being less than a man if you had sex with a man or allowed yourself to become a victim? Sometimes I think we view ourselves and judge ourselves too harshly because we "think" society would view it that way which is normally the furthest thing from the truth. I have noticed that most people are much more forgiving than previously expected.
DP1
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Message 124947 (In Reply to Message 124928)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 13, 2004 04:37 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
"Silver, you hinted at religion in your post and how it affects values on marriage. How do your religious values effect how a victim of sexual abuse is viewed? Homosexual behavior? Is it viewed as something dirty? Nasty? Would you be judged as being less than a man if you had sex with a man or allowed yourself to become a victim?"
Religion is important to me. As far as homosexuality it "isnt allowed" but Im pretty much celebate anyway. The act may be a sin but its the old addage (hate the sin love the sinner). I havent had relations in several years and am very comfortable being celebate. At the time of my abuse I was a Catholic but we werent going to church often. As a side note a very good friend of mine was molested by our priest. His family though were die-hard Catholics. He disappeared for about eight months to a local mental hospital (very sudden). I assume the church paid for it.
Anyway years later when my lawsuit came out and I ran into his dad again in the old neighborhood he was very angry I had hired that "church busting lawyer". My lawyer was gaining alot of fame nationally sueing the church over abuse cases. I became defensive and told him that Archbishop Roach (John Roach was archbishop of minneapolis) had passed these guys from church to church. He didnt believe it at all. His "faith" had blinded him to the truth.
Silverthorne
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Message 125011 (In Reply to Message 124677)
Victim Therapists
Posted by dp1
on Jan 14, 2004 09:03 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Im seeing someone next week about it.
Silver,
Just wondering about going to see a victim therapist. Is it scary? Intimidating? Do they ask a lot of questions? Can you tell us what to expect on the first visti? Does it get easier every time you visit the therapist or does it become an anxiety filled day with thoughts of quitting therapy? Just curious.
DP1
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Message 125016 (In Reply to Message 124677)
My thoughts
Posted by Rachel
on Jan 14, 2004 03:07 PM | Also by Rachel
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
Silver, I just want to add a few of my own thoughts to your post.. For "whatever" reason, I think that writing all this down will make me feel better.
My no. 1 reason for being angry ( and biggest hurdle to come to terms with).
My now 13 yr old daughter has not developed into the person I anticipated her becoming...Well, before I knew her father was abusing her that is.
As a little one, she was confident, fun-loving, extroverted and unafraid. She didn't care if she fell off her bike, wasn't scared to climb to the top of trees, and never worried about getting lost or being separated from me...she was carefree and quick to laugh.
These days, she has a lot less confidence, doesn't like to be away from me for very long, has trouble concentrating, and most of the time she is vague and "away with the fairies", which has led her sister to begin calling her a "dumb blonde".
I don't know if she is like this because of her father or whether she would have become this way regardless of the abuse. I really really hate him for that.
I don't know if this is just her personality or it is her "sexually abused personality". I wish I could scream "will my REAL child please come out !"
I know it will be like this forever.....Everytime something changes in her, I will wonder if it's because of her past abuse.
Sometimes I feel that he stole everything that was my little girl, and replaced her with a whole new person.....It makes me reallllllly angry.
Ok, I don't normally get this worked up and upset, but I've really hit a nerve within myself tonight...I think I should leave before I jam my fingers through this keyboard....so much for feeling better.
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Message 125032 (In Reply to Message 125011)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 14, 2004 06:02 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
It was a pretty good appointment. I had provided her with my diary, an autobiography I wrote for my other therapist as well as a couple decades of medical records. She had over a month to look at it all so Im sure she had a good idea "who" I was (and probably thought - good grief! - lol).
Anyway the first appointment was more like an interview. She asked me what I hoped to get out of therapy, talked about some of the stuff in my records, talked about my other problem and how Im doing with it, talked about family.
I have another appointment next week. Im sure as time goes on we'll get into the "down and dirty" stuff of my victimization.
Silverthorne
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Message 125033 (In Reply to Message 125016)
To Rachel
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 14, 2004 06:18 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
Rachel, I certainly understand, if you read "Silverthornes Story" you'll see how I changed from a "normal happy kid" to a recluse literally overnight. Im certain I've not developed into the person I couldve been had this not happend.
Im finally now (in my middle age) reaching my potential. Its like everything was put on hold for 20 years. I didnt get a fair start and that makes me angry as well. If this hadnt happend who knows what I couldve been. Im a driven, intense, passionate and inteligent person. I belong to MENSA and love to read. I could've been a doctor, a lawyer, a Senator, almost anything. I'm "one of those types" of people who naturally excel.
Instead it was stolen away from me. Looking back now its easy to see this event did affect me. The point is though I've finally made the choice that it doesn't have to anymore. Having had an experience like this will always define "who" I am. It doesnt have to define "what" I am. In some ways this has made me a much stronger person. I've overcome adversity that would cripple most people. Sure I'm angry as hell but I also know that anger isnt constructive. People who are angry are blind to reality. I have no plans to die alone and angry.
Your daughter is kind of going thru what I went thru. The benefit is you know NOW what happend. Has she had any victims therapy? Have YOU had any therapy to deal with the issues of being a parent of an abused child?
Her behaviors including wanting to be close to you (security issues) and "being with the fairies" (distraction) are very common among abuse victims. I've been told sometimes I get a far away look in my eyes and "phase out". Im sure its the same with your daughter. Having something like this happen to her has thrust her into the world of the victim. A world where priorities are thrown asunder and victims long for stability and security.
I'd like to recommend a couple books to you including:
BEGINNING TO HEAL
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006096927X/ref=pd_sim_books_2/002-5339776-2304019?v=glance&s=books
THE COURAGE TO HEAL
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898458331/qid=1074100342/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-5339776-2304019
COURAGE TO HEAL WORKBOOK FOR WOMEN
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060964375/ref=pd_sim_books_2/002-5339776-2304019?v=glance&s=books
HOW LONG DOES IT HURT - GUIDE FOR TEENAGE INCEST VICTIMS
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555426743/qid=1074100442/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-5339776-2304019?v=glance&s=books
These links lead directly amazon.com . If you go there from here and purchase there in that visit Steve gets a small (very small) reward for referring people and it will help pay for this sites upkeep.
Silverthorne
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Message 125180 (In Reply to Message 125033)
Rachel
Posted by PVulcan
on Jan 16, 2004 06:59 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I'm not sure if they have programs available in Aus or not, but here in the usa, well, washington for sure, there are several types of 'empowering' type seminars such as Warrior Spirit and Landmark Education. Actually I just checked and they do have classes in Australia. These type seminars not only challenge and build emotional empowerment, but physical empowerment also. I have experienced both these programs and they do have 'teen' and 'adult' seperate programs. It might be an option not only for your daughter, but for yourself also in your efforts to get back that control and self esteem. All the best.
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Message 125281 (In Reply to Message 125180)
Wish I lived in th USA
Posted by Rachel
on Jan 17, 2004 08:50 AM | Also by Rachel
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
Hi Vulcan, Unfortunately the state I live in doesn't have any programs at all for abused children or their parents.
A few months after my daughter disclosed, I tried to start my own group for parents of sexually abused children, but I suppose because of the stigma still attached, and living in a small area, it never really attracted much interest. The couple of people who did come, were under the impression that , because I had started the group, I was going to be able to supply the answers to all their problems.
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Message 125603 (In Reply to Message 125281)
Rachel
Posted by PVulcan
on Jan 20, 2004 10:07 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I checked online and Landmark Education does operate in Aus. It isn't specific to victims of abuse, it's a program designed to make changes in life thinking, empowerment issues, that sort of thing. My daughter went through the teen program, and has never looked back. She is not a victim of abuse, but was lacking self esteem, Landmark is a remarkable program.
I was in Dallas recently at a conference for Sexual Violence Prevention and met 3 ladies from Aus. I wonder if there is like an 800# or whatever you might call a toll free number that could get you in contact with someone for your daughter, even if it's just someone for her to pick up the phone and talk to from time to time. I will check at the office. We have a couple of books that are geared specifically to teen victims and get back to you with the name of them, maybe they can help. Once again, I just can't stress enough to you how important it is that you be healthy through this time also, you are a secondary victim. Sexual Violence does not just affect the victim, it affects all aspects of the victims community, whether that be family/friends/sports team/school/church etc.
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Thread
124677, Silverthorne, Jan 11, 2004 12:02 AM
124693, dp1, Jan 11, 2004 02:49 AM [Victim Issues]
124702, Silverthorne, Jan 11, 2004 05:44 AM [Victims]
124718, dp1, Jan 11, 2004 03:02 PM [What About?]
124755, Silverthorne, Jan 11, 2004 07:48 PM
124762, steve, Jan 11, 2004 07:55 PM
124729, orolan, Jan 11, 2004 05:26 PM
124739, dp1, Jan 11, 2004 06:45 PM [Yes]
124761, Silverthorne, Jan 11, 2004 07:54 PM [The other "big thing" Im angry about]
124896, dp1, Jan 13, 2004 05:00 AM [Questions for Silver]
124903, Silverthorne, Jan 13, 2004 06:25 AM [Victim Questions - answers from Silver...]
124928, dp1, Jan 13, 2004 02:49 PM [Silver]
124947, Silverthorne, Jan 13, 2004 04:37 PM
125011, dp1, Jan 14, 2004 09:03 AM [Victim Therapists]
125032, Silverthorne, Jan 14, 2004 06:02 PM
125016, Rachel, Jan 14, 2004 03:07 PM [My thoughts]
125033, Silverthorne, Jan 14, 2004 06:18 PM [To Rachel]
125180, PVulcan, Jan 16, 2004 06:59 AM [Rachel]
125281, Rachel, Jan 17, 2004 08:50 AM [Wish I lived in th USA]
125603, PVulcan, Jan 20, 2004 10:07 AM [Rachel]
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