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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): We need help
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Message 122349 (In Reply to Message 122253)
Constitutional rights
Posted by marta
on Nov 26, 2003 12:47 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
>>>
Sure, I sometimes second-guess a jury decision. But only if I've been given all the facts that were presented in the case and/or I attended portions of the trial. No way will I formulate an opinion based only on the words of the "losing" side. Or the "winning" side, for that matter.
And as for MJ, yes, I said that. It is a perfect example. People the world over have already tried and convicted him. Why? Because they don't like him. Ever think about the fact that maybe this thread's original poster doesn't LIKE the exonerated defendant? What evidence is there in the MJ case? At this point, only the statements made by the boy in some therapy session (for what, we don't know). If I were on the jury, the state better come up with something better than that. And right now, MJ is innocent. He will remain so if he is found not guilty.
>>>
With all due respect, orolan, presumption of innocence isn't required of anyone but the state, and then only during a criminal proceeding. The Supreme Court even ruled in 1979 that the presumption does not extend to pre-trial detainment, i.e. the constitutional rights of the accused in question were not violated when he was treated like a criminal by being held in a rather rough and tumble facility while awaiting trial. The presumption is a way of guaranteeing due process, of ensuring that the defendant is convicted based on proper procedure and a fair trial. It is a means, along with the requirement that guilt be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, of slanting the scales of justice far in the defendant's favor in order to check the state's ability to incarcerate at will those accused of crimes. It prevents the state from arbitrarily or injudiciously depriving someone of life, liberty, or property.
When you argue that the populace at large should withhold judgment until they have adequate information, it is not without merit. It is, however, completely unrealistic. You may be more likely to wait before judging because of your experience, but there is no motivation for most of America to refrain from going with their gut. And ultimately, what does it matter if Joe Blow in Cincinnati thinks MJ is guilty? NOT MUCH. You can argue that it's still unfair, and that it does matter if the people he interacts with everyday judge him prematurely, and you wouldn't be wrong. Fortunately for him, the people around him aren't allowed to deprive him of life, liberty, or property. All they can do is ostracize or subtly discriminate against him. They may be wrong, but they aren't compelled to do otherwise.
I'm sure there are circumstances where you would go with your gut, despite the compelling argument to wait for all the information, no?
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Message 122253
Posted by orolan
on Nov 24, 2003 11:53 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 40 - 49,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Thread
122241, Chopdoc, Nov 24, 2003 07:48 PM [Please help]
122242, orolan, Nov 24, 2003 08:45 PM
122246, Silverthorne, Nov 24, 2003 09:45 PM
122250, steve, Nov 24, 2003 09:51 PM [Not guilty, not innocent]
122253, orolan, Nov 24, 2003 11:53 PM
122256, steve, Nov 25, 2003 01:20 AM
122349, marta, Nov 26, 2003 12:47 AM [Constitutional rights]
122421, orolan, Nov 28, 2003 12:00 AM
122542, marta, Dec 01, 2003 07:55 PM [I know]
122545, steve, Dec 01, 2003 08:48 PM
122633, orolan, Dec 03, 2003 02:52 PM
122714, marta, Dec 05, 2003 05:57 AM [It's a wash]
122415, PVulcan, Nov 27, 2003 10:35 PM
122417, Silverthorne, Nov 27, 2003 10:56 PM
122252, dp1, Nov 24, 2003 11:35 PM [Hello]
122257, poetsdreamscape, Nov 25, 2003 01:26 AM [Questions]
122556, lisaearl, Dec 02, 2003 01:44 AM [sorry for your daughter]
122582, mouseinawheel, Dec 02, 2003 05:46 AM
122632, orolan, Dec 03, 2003 02:36 PM [Bravo]
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