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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): We need help
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Message 122256 (In Reply to Message 122253)
Posted by steve
on Nov 25, 2003 01:20 AM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
> Since a defendant, under the presumtion of innocence premise, is
> innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, a finding of not guilty is in fact a
> confirmation of that innocence.
In the US legal system a defendant is presumed innocent, but I stand by my statement that a verdict of not guilty is not equivalent to being declared innocent. I made no statement about the frequency with which not guilty verdicts are due to the state not making a strong enough case because that is not the issue. Presumed innocent just means the burden is on the state in proving guilt as opposed to the burden being on the defendant in proving innocence as is the case in some countries. In the US, the law never declares someone innocent.
I don't have time to dig up a series of pages that explain the difference, but if the following doesn't convince you maybe you can research on your own or someone else can point you in the right direction. See
What Happens When A Person is Charged With A Crime?. Incidentally, note that the word "innocent" is never used.
> I firmly believe that in today's courtrooms, juries are far more
> inclined to err on the side of caution and convict in child sex abuse
> cases.
I have no doubt that in such cases some jurors err on the side of convicting someone, even though the guilt wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I've served on a jury. Let me just say that anyone who has their fate decided by a jury of "their peers" better keep their fingers crossed. Juries bring their own agendas and in my limited experience are pretty low on the qualification poll, generally speaking.
> If this jury failed to convict on ANY count or return a lesser-included
> offense conviction, the evidence had to be pretty much non-existent
> or had a total lack of credibility.
You seem to be trying to convince us that in child sex abuse cases (which my earlier reply wasn't meant to be limited to) that only in very rare cases are guilty defendants found not guilty. I don't want to get too far on a tangent so I'll say that the focus of my earlier reply was 1. not guilty is not the same as innocent (you seem to have read more into that than was there) and the jury system isn't foolproof (I could have been clearer about that).
> No way will I formulate an opinion based only on the words of the "losing" side.
A little hypocritical don't you think? You came to this message board and essentially asked everyone here, without having to say it in so many words, to give you the benefit of the doubt when you shared your version of the facts of your situation. As does everyone who posts here. When someone like Chopdoc comes here and shares his version of the facts I think we should extend him the benefit of the doubt. Your reply came across (to me at least) as you suggesting that Chopdoc's daughter might not have been abused, juries always get it right and that he shouldn't try to get involved in order to prevent the person from abusing others.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with asking clarifying questions or making suggestions, but Chopdoc came here for support and advice, not accusations and discouragement.
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Message 122253
Posted by orolan
on Nov 24, 2003 11:53 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 40 - 49,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Thread
122241, Chopdoc, Nov 24, 2003 07:48 PM [Please help]
122242, orolan, Nov 24, 2003 08:45 PM
122246, Silverthorne, Nov 24, 2003 09:45 PM
122250, steve, Nov 24, 2003 09:51 PM [Not guilty, not innocent]
122253, orolan, Nov 24, 2003 11:53 PM
122256, steve, Nov 25, 2003 01:20 AM
122349, marta, Nov 26, 2003 12:47 AM [Constitutional rights]
122421, orolan, Nov 28, 2003 12:00 AM
122542, marta, Dec 01, 2003 07:55 PM [I know]
122545, steve, Dec 01, 2003 08:48 PM
122633, orolan, Dec 03, 2003 02:52 PM
122714, marta, Dec 05, 2003 05:57 AM [It's a wash]
122415, PVulcan, Nov 27, 2003 10:35 PM
122417, Silverthorne, Nov 27, 2003 10:56 PM
122252, dp1, Nov 24, 2003 11:35 PM [Hello]
122257, poetsdreamscape, Nov 25, 2003 01:26 AM [Questions]
122556, lisaearl, Dec 02, 2003 01:44 AM [sorry for your daughter]
122582, mouseinawheel, Dec 02, 2003 05:46 AM
122632, orolan, Dec 03, 2003 02:36 PM [Bravo]
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