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Forum: Victims and Survivors Corner
Thread (Discussion): Survivor's Story (Forever) - Victim Lies
Message 120058
Red Flags - Go With The Gut Feeling ALL THE TIME!
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 18, 2003 08:43 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
To give everyone a little insight, I am a former registered PI. My firm was hired by “A State” to run the DHS Program. ((DHS) Designated Habitual Sex Offender). I managed to get in the heads of some of these guy’s and seen more then my share. I was the operations manager for the firm. They tell me I was great at what I did. One day, maybe I just might go back to it. I do miss it.
I guess I had to give a little background to let everyone know that what happened to me CAN happen to anyone.
I left my position as a PI due to family issues. Mainly due to the fact I was NEVER home. I was in a 14 year relationship that ended anyway. I took a very low paying job at a local home improvement store.
On July 13, 2001, (Friday the 13th) a fairly good looking man came into the store and we chatted for a while. The first conversation lasted approximately 20 to 25 minuets. I thought he was good looking – he said he was doing repairs at a friends close by. He asked me what I liked to do when I was not working. I said “I love to fish”. And I did.
The conversation turned into 50 questions. They all came from him and all were directed to who I was and what I liked to do. Of course, his answers matched mine to a tee. It was a perfect match of interests.
To make a long story short – This man asked me out on a fishing date (he was VERY persistent) and I said yes. After all, he asked me if I would go fishing with him.
We agreed to meet at a restaurant close to the lake where the fishing was going to take place. I had never been there before nor have I ever heard of the lake. It was a small rock quarry that had been filled and stocked with fish. He gave me his cell number and directions to the restaurant (bar), I stuffed it into my back pocket of my jeans and he left the store. I lost his number.
He came back into the store 30 minutes before the end of my shift to tell me he gave me the wrong directions. He gave me the directions again and his number again and we agreed on 4:30 as a time to meet. The directions he was giving me were very vague, I told him I was unsure about where the place was and did not know how to get there. We agreed to meet at a department store close to the site and he would drive us there. I then agreed to give him my cell number in case I lost his again.
I was running late due to having to pick up the fishing poles at my house and drop my daughter off at my sister’s house. He proceeded to call me 5 times to ask me “Where the hell I was”. I thought he was kidding and took it as a joke.
We met at a department store parking lot at 5:15. I ran into the store to use the lady’s room. (Little Insight –so sorry – but - that time of the month (this all will mean something later)).
I got back into his truck and he again, started on me with the running late attitude. “What the hell took so long – damn I hate slow women”. I could not tell if he was kidding or serious. I thought we were going to head to the lake to do a little fishing and he said “I want to take you somewhere”. I said ok. He drove down a little side street just adjacent to the parking lot where my car was. He proceeded to drive off the road under a viaduct and across a small stream. I asked him “are we going to get in trouble for being here” and he said “No” he had ties. I knew better but let him go. I got an eerie sot of feeling that something was going to happen. I thought the police would come and we would get in trouble for being there.
We got to an area that was sum what deserted, he stopped the truck and said ‘Finally – no people” and looked at me. He leaned over to kiss me and I drew back a bit. With that, a man walking a dog came across us. The guy I was with was VERY upset and said “all I want to do is be alone with you for a couple of minutes - God Damn it”.
I knew at this time the man I was with had some "Strange" problem and I would never see this guy again. I would stay for the rest of the date and thought of nothing but just going fishing. In the past, I would always go fishing by myself because I had no one to go with. My daughter was not into it and hated the fact of me even asking. I figured I would take advantage of someone, anyone fishing along with me.
We drove out from under the viaduct and were on out way to the restaurant. We talked about various things throughout the drive. The conversation on his part always drifted to sex. He point blank asked me if he was going to “get lucky” that night and I said NO. I told him it was that time of the month also, I was not into “one hit wonders.” To change the conversation, I told him about my previous position as a PI. He told me he used to be one too and that he would carry a gun everywhere he went. He the said he had one in the truck we were in, and it was loaded. I told him about my ties to law enforcement, mainly that my sister and brother in law were both police officers. I went on to tell him that my brother-in-law was a very well known police detective and I had learned everything I know from him. I would travel to visit them just to do ride longs and pick up pointers from him.
My date was not impressed. It seemed that anything I would say about myself or what I had accomplished only seemed to provoke an aggravated “I did better than that” comment back at me.
We got to the restaurant at 6:30 pm. In the time we were there - 1 hour, - I had 3 vodka & tonic’s (short ones with a ton of ice and mostly tonic). He went to the bar all three times for the drinks. I was fine. We left and stopped at a small store for beer. I ran in and paid for a 12 pack. He came in shortly after I started to pay and showed the “Temper” again. He asked me what was taking so long.
Mind you, I was in the store for less then 3 minutes. I got back into the truck and we were on out way to go fishing. He grabbed two beers from the package and opened them as we drove. He handed me one after playing with the cap and the top of the bottle for a couple of seconds. He then opened his and began to drink and drive. I held mine between my legs in fear of getting in trouble with the police. He asked me if I was going to hold it there forever or drink it. I began to lift the bottle to my lips when he shouted at me ‘What the HELL, you trying to get me a DUI?” He meant it this time and I knew it. He continued to drink his beer. I managed to take two sips out of that beer, for the rest of the ride to the lake. I became very quite and just listed to him talk.
We drove down a VERY remote single lane dirt road that was covered on both sides with trees and heavy brush. We came to a small opening from the trees and the very small lake was revealed. This time, my date threw a “Serious” fit. There were people there fishing. We drove along the dirt path that ran aside the small lake until he parked by the people that had been there fishing.
We pulled up to the other people fishing; there was no other place to go. I got out of the truck and went for the poles and gear in the back. As I started to grab the poles from the back of the truck, I felt a little dizzy. By the time I had the poles in my hand and walked 50 to 60 yard’s to the shore, I had to sit down. I could feel uneasiness in my feet and hands. It was like I had been sitting on them for hours, but the feeling began to travel slowly up my arms. I took the container of worms and set them down next to me. At that time, my date came from behind and wrapped one arm around my neck and with the other shoved his beer bottle into my mouth and forced me to drink some. I tried to shove the bottle away. It had smashed into my teeth and hurt. He sat the beer next to me, laughed and walked back to the car. There was a man fishing with his 2 daughters about 15 yards from me who seen what just had happened. He approached me and asked me if we had een dating long. I said no – we just met today and I never want to see the guy again. He set his pole down and walked to where my date was standing.
I sat on the shore and felt intensely dizzy at that point. My eyes began to cross. My head was bobbing and I tried to stand. I sat back down. I thought I was drunk and I got VERY embarrassed. The man walked back to me and said my date was just on the phone telling someone that “he was definitely going to get some tonight”.
As the man walked back to where he was fishing, I tried to stand again, this time I made it to my feet. I managed to walk to my dates truck (he was there - just ending a call using my cell phone).
He grabbed my arms and told me he wanted to talk and draged me futher into the brush. I had fallen several times in the process of trying to walk. My mind what there - I just didn't have ANY motor skills left.
I was violently raped repeatedly throughout the night. When I was able to get my motor skills back – (at 1 am) I managed to escape.
Yes - He drugged me. It was GHB.
He was convicted this past January. Now serving (plea bargen) 6 years and must register as a Violent Sex Offender. He was not on the list before and does have a past.
I would love to get more into detail - but I don't think Steve would like such a massave post. The details of my escape and his capture is VERY interesting.
Survivor Forever!
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Message 120082 (In Reply to Message 120058)
Awesome Real Life Story!
Posted by dp1
on Oct 19, 2003 01:03 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Survivor Forever,
That's an awesome detailed report of how you were sexually abused! I am so sorry that happened to you. It must have been embarassing to go through the whole legal process.
I'd be interested in hearing the rest of the story as far as your escape and the Court process. You said he got six years...do you mean prison time? Or probation? Either way it seems like a slap in the face considering rape is considered a violent offense.
As difficult as it is for an adult to discuss these issues can you imagine how hard it would be for a child or a teenager to report sexual advances from a pedophile? I'm surprised we get as many convictions as we do. Look at your situation alone as far as how he manipulated and intimidated.
I have a good female friend who also worked with sex offenders and got date raped (no drugs). She was soooo embarassed because she was also, like yourself, good at what she did and somehow thought that she was immune to sexual abuse. Her rape was violent and left many marks on her body. She was too embarassed to call the police. Of course, I tried to talk her into reporting it and she just couldn't do it. As time went on she felt guilty and eventually quit her job and took up another career. I can't say that I blame her. So, in retrospect I admire your bravery for reporting and following through. Not to mention the courage to post your story on this site. I hope others will learn from your tragic events.
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Message 120106 (In Reply to Message 120082)
Oh!
Posted by orolan
on Oct 19, 2003 04:17 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
SurvivorForever,
Please ignore my post on the other thread about being confused. I'm not anymore. Tragic that you had to go through that, and I agree that his sentence was lenient under any circumstances. He should have gotten life.
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Message 120132 (In Reply to Message 120058)
Wow
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 19, 2003 11:45 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
SF,
I dont know alot about GHB I assume its one of those "date rape" drugs?
I'm really sorry you had to go thru this experience. Its clear a lady has to be onguard at all times. Even today if I meet someone for something its always in a public place. My view is "why go private if they say theres nothing private to do?". I believe a lady should exercise the same caution.
I'd like to know more about his capture as well as how you've dealt with it. Did you find some closure with a trial? Have you had therapy to deal with it? What are some of the aftereffects its had on your life? Has your routine changed? Any habits relating to feelings of insecurity? ( I for instance check door locks 3-4 times every night because I'm afraid someone will get in and I carry a gun).
Silverthorne
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Message 120152 (In Reply to Message 120132)
The Escape
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 20, 2003 04:17 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Silver - yes GHB is a date rape drug. I found closure when he was taken into custudy. I then knew he was not going to hurt ANYONE for at least a while. Yes - therapy was somethinf I did. I needed to know if what I was feeling was normal. I needed to hear it for others. I am more secure after this then at any other time in my life. I NEVER second guess my feelings. No checking & re checking of locks. I know if anything ever happens again like this - someone is going to die. I will NEVER let someone do this to me again.
– The Escape:
The drug had started to wear off and I was lying in the cab of his truck. He was standing outside when he must have heard me moving around.
He got into the truck and I sat up. He asked me if I was feeling better and told me I had too much to drink. I knew better. I had never felt that in my entire life and had not since that night.
He started the truck and I asked him where we were going. He told me he was going to take me to a beautiful spot in the woods, rape me again, shoot me and dump by body there after he was done. He began to laugh and said this to me with a smile on his face.
His smile NEVER left his face.
I remembered that he had said his gun was in the car. I lost my composure. I began to shake uncontrollably. I thought of my daughter, my family and my mom. I thought “How can I die in a way that someone would find my body”.
I remembered that my cell phone was on the seat of the truck. Without him seeing me do it, I grabbed the phone, hiding it and moved it to my right hand. Between the seat and the passenger door, in one hand, I dialed 911. I began to laugh (playing along with him) and asked him (as the phone was on) where we were, what his full name was, where are you taking me again, what are you going to do to me and a ton of other questions. He answered ALL the questions. I looked down at the phone, the call never went through. I dialed the number again, this time in plane site of him. He asked me who I was calling and I didn’t answer. He asked me again and I ended the call as he was taking my phone away. I knew (at the time) this guy was going to kill me and I would never see my family again. At that moment, the only option I had left was for me to play along. I knew this guy was sick, and this was ALL about control.
We got to the spot where he wanted to take me. I gave into every demand and made him feel like a king. I humbled myself at times, but at other times when I could not handle the pain I screamed out for him to stop. At one time, I told him “I think I am falling for you”. Hoping, praying maybe he would take that as a hint to have control for a while and MAYBE let me go.
He finished and said to me, he was used to having ruff sex. It was his way. He laid out the ground rules of what a relationship with him was supposed to be. He told me His had better been the biggest and him the best I had ever had and he had to believe it otherwise I would have to pay dearly.
I could not believe he was talking like this. I took full advantage.
I told him what he wanted to hear. I told him I could fall “deep” for him. I told him I REALY wanted to see him again. The entire conversation, I NEVER showed ANY fear. It was like someone else had entered my body and took over. There was a lot of fast thinking and great acting going on and it was working.
He started his truck. I asked him where we were going and he sand –“You have to be up early for work - home”
We drove out of the woods, for what seemed to be hours. We pulled off onto the road and I could not believe he was taking me back. My heart was pounding out of my chest. I never showed ANY emotion. He stopped for gas and would not let me exit the truck. I told him I would go pay and he grabbed my purse and took a twenty and went to pay (at a window 5 yards away.)
I sat in the truck – breathing VERY heavy. I could not move. It never entered my mind to run. He was to close.
A woman pulled up at the pump in front of his and got out to get gas. He walked back to the truck shouting at the woman very crude and vulgar comments. I sat and looked at her as she glared back. I hoped she would not say ANYTHING back. I tried to get her attention and shake my head no; I put my hand up and waved in a way to let her know NOT to do ANYTHING to provoke him. She got into her car and drove off. He took me back to my car. The conversation that followed was so eerie. He NEVER brought up sex again. He did not talk about what he did to me. He (other then the anger outbursts) was different. Like something snapped back into place in this twisted head.
He took me to my car. He dropped me off at my car. Before I was able to leave, He made plans for a second date for the following night. I agreed. Knowing whole heartedly I would not be alone. He kissed me goodnight, I got into my car and he followed me for a while, and then disappeared.
Dealing with every police department in my PI position, I knew where they were all located. I could not remember how to get there after this had happened. I dialed the police for directions and I drove straight to station. When I entered the station, I broke down before I could get a word out. They knew something had happened to me. I was filthy and bleeding. I regained composure and filled them in on EVERYTHING.
Survivor.
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Message 120154 (In Reply to Message 120106)
orolan - it's ok
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 20, 2003 04:23 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Orolan -
He received 6 years in prison. He MUST serve all the time. No early release. When he is released he will have to regiseter as a SO the rest of his life. This was all part of a plea I agreed to. IWe were due for trial two days before his attorneys took the plea. It would have been nice to get the full sentance (15 to 35 for each offence).
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Message 120158 (In Reply to Message 120106)
Reply to Oh
Posted by myoung
on Oct 20, 2003 04:33 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
You're gonna read a reply on another thread because I didn't see this one first. Sorry!
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Message 120159 (In Reply to Message 120082)
CREDIT
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 20, 2003 04:34 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
I give credit to ANYONE who comes forward in a sex crime. You become someone else when you are put into this position. You forget who you are and your life revolves around court, therapy and how lucky you are to be alive.
As far as being difficult to talk about. NO! I have no fear or difficulty talking about it or telling my story. However, I don't tell anyone in my new inner circle of friends about it. I just don't think they need to know. Embarassing? Yes - how could I be so dumb. The only thing I feel guilty about is saying yes to a date.
This event is how I found this board - and why I will ALWAYS be here for anyone who needs my help.
Survivor Forever
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Message 120162 (In Reply to Message 120058)
Marta
Posted by myoung
on Oct 20, 2003 05:16 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I cannot imagine how horrifying that must be. It's one thing to be able to fight your attacker (even if you don't get away) but it is horrifying to not be in control of your physical faculties while it's happening. Just out of curiosity, did you have a blood test or something that proved the GHB and that is how you knew what it was? How did he slip it to you? Drinks? What a cold, calculated, cowardly thing to do! Since you have been in the business of SO, maybe you can give me a little education with regard to my sisters situation. My sister was raped when she was living in Allentown, Pa back in 1993. She had been in rehab for alcoholism prior to the incident and was slowly slipping into relapse. She relapsed in a very big way unfortunately. While she was intoxicated, in her own apartment, a man violently raped her. She was not aware of the incident with the exception of bruising and soreness (other physical signs). When I called the ambulance, she was nearly dead from alcohol poisoning (her BAL was 0.35 several hours after she arrived at the hospital so one can imagine what it was during the incident). She found out nine weeks into rehab that she was pregnant from that incident. She had needed blood work to make sure her liver function was being restored by the medication they were giving her and that was when they ran the pregnancy test. I think it is standard because the drug can cause birth defects so they do it as a precautionary measure. I now have a ten year old nephew who is absolutely sweet and smart as a whip! He is not of our ethnicity and he is much darker (he gets the best tan....that little stinker) anyway, he asks about his father and why he doesn't look like us. Getting back to the subject, she wanted to persue this legally because several witnesses saw him leave her apartment and she remembers being in and out of consciousness and seeing his face over her and hearing grunting noises. She knew him which made it hard to believe that he could do this because he frequented some of the AA meetings she went to in Allentown and Bethlehem.. She went to the police and then consulted a lawyer. The lawyer told her that given her past with rehab, they could not prove that she did not consent in her state of mind at that time so she would be battered by the defense attorney on the stand. She never did persue it and she has spent the larger part of the past ten years in therapy. It really sucks that she couldn't get justice and now she worries every day that he will come and kidnap her son. He calls all the time to find out about him and she hangs up. He often tells her this is his son too and she can't keep him from him. The police told her that if he makes it out of the country with him there is nothing they can do because we have no reciprocity with his country. What a mess!
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Message 120196 (In Reply to Message 120162)
survivor forever
Posted by myoung
on Oct 20, 2003 04:10 PM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
sorry about the earlier reply. I accidentally put Marta's name there but the message was meant for you. Sorry
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Message 120211 (In Reply to Message 120162)
Myoung
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 20, 2003 11:09 PM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
GHB – is only detectable for up to 7 to 8 hours after taking it. No – GHB it was not found in my system. My blood was sent to the state crime lab to be tested. The only thing they found was quinine (from the tonic). Thus – dropping the “aggravated” part of the criminal sexual assault charges. We knew he did it. We just could not prove it. We almost did with his own words. GHB is comes in a liquid form - no taste - no smell. I feel it was given to me (small ammount) at the bar and then a large ammount at the lake in the beer he forced into my mouth.
During my rapist interrogation, before the police even asked or hinted around to the fact of GHB or another drug used, he made the statement ‘What do you think I drugged her?” Then continued to make similar clamed as to not drugging me when he was never asked if he did, and the question was never implied.
I have been drunk before ( honestly - more then a couple). Never have I felt this feeling before or since the attack that night. I have replayed and staged the entire event several times to see how much I could drink and never came to that state EVER.
I was sharp minded and had NO motor skills. Looking at the symptoms I felt is how it was determined to be GHB. Although it was brought up that it could have been some kind of animal tranquilizer. (That part of my story will come out in the capture.)
After my rape, he admitted, he went to the neighboring town to buy cocaine.
He had a serious drug habit as well. I'm not implying that because he did - he would do this. Just that he had easy access to street drugs.
Survivor
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Message 120225 (In Reply to Message 120211)
The Capture - End of story
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 21, 2003 12:33 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
After immediately going to the police (in a different town then where the crime occurred). I explained in detail what had happened to me. I explained over and over to various officers. Several came into the room at different times and I had to explain (from the top) again. This was all still at the police station. The police asked me where it took place and said it was out of their jurisdiction and that I had to be brought to that county. I could not remember how to get back to the place it occurred, but I knew what town it was in. An officer drove me back to the area that the rape occurred and was transferred to another police unit, who in turn drove me to the hospital.
Before I was seen by a doctor, I found myself explaining the story 10 to 20 more times to other officers. The lead detective came in and I explained the story once more. I told him I did not remember where he took me but I described what I seen on the way there. The detective knew where it was.
The rape kit was complete; I was given umpteen shots and told to call someone to pick me up. The detective told me he would call in the morning and wanted to know if I would be up to talking and going back to the crime scene. I SAID YES!
My sister came to get me. (I will not answer questions regarding my sister).
I had gotten to her house at approximately 6:30 am. Not even showered and caked in dirt & tired and emotionally drained, the detective called at 7:00 am and wanted me to meet him ASAP. We went back to the lake after I took a 5 minute shower.
Everything that I had told the police was EXACTLY where it had been left.
The container of worms I set on the shore was there with one worm missing out of 12. His hat he lost was there. We drove around hoping to find his tire marks and we did. I pointed out where every attack took place and evidence was collected at all spots but the last one. The only thing there were his tire marks. We finished the crime scene at approximately 11:30 am or so. I told the detective that this guy knew where I worked and had my cell phone number. He told me not to go to work and to call the detective IMMEADIATLY if the rapist should call.
My sister and I returned home and I finally got to take a shower.
I ate a little and was about to take a nap and my cell phone begun to ring. It was the rapist. I let it ring and did not answer. I called the detective to tell him and he told me to answer. The detective was shocked that the guy called back. So was I. We thought the guy would be long gone. The cell phone rang several (consecutively) times when I was on the land line with the detective. When I ended the conversation with the detective, my cell went off again and shaking in utter fear - I answered it.
The rapist began to question me why I did not answer the phone the first time. I told him I was in the shower. He then asked me why I was not at work. I told him I was. He began to yell at me about how I was lying because he had been there looking for me. He did not see my car in the lot. I told him my sister needed my car and I used hers. I apologized. He told me he wanted to see me very soon and I told him I would call him back and let him know. I told him I would call him back. He game me a number to reach him.
I called the detective back after that cell phone ended. He told me not to set up a date for that night but for one the following night. The detective needed more time. I agreed. He asked me if I would agree to a date, and be willing to wear a wire. I said YES. I then told the detective I would be willing to do ANYTHING to get this guy behind bars. We worked out the plan.
I arranged a date for the following day with the rapist and he agreed.
I got another call, this time from the stable where I was boarding my horse. My horse had been injured and needed attention ASAP. By myself, I went to the barn and had to call the vet. While standing next to the vet and my injured horse, the rapist called again. I told him I could not be bothered right at that time that my horse was very injured and needed to be given a sedative before we could work on her. He told me “Where are you at, let me come, I have a ton of animal tranquilizers and know what I am doing.” My jaw dropped. I began to think about how I felt the night before and KNEW at that second what he had done to me. After the call ended I reported it to the detective and agreed that this guy was not going away. I must have triggered something in this guy to make him want to stay.
Throughout the day I continued to receive calls from the rapist asking me where I was and what I was doing. After each call I would call the detective to report it and tell him what had been said.
Two days later (after the rape). After speaking to the detective, we (me & police) arranged to meet at the station, go to a judge’s residence to attain an emergency order to hook me up to the wire and meet the rapist at a restaurant. We got it!
We tested the equipment, and waited for the call.
At approximately 6:00 pm the rapist called and refused to meet me at the restaurant and wanted me to go to his home. I refused. I began to asked questions about the night of the rape and he answered them (as the tape was rolling). The more I asked the more he became suspicious of why I was asking them. He hung up several times on me and then would call back. He (the rapist) became infuriated and told he I had better be at his house in 10 minutes or (and I quote) “We would end up like two dead lovers on the side of the road”. I told him (through the direction of police) I would meet him at a local gas station close to where he wanted me to be.
We got it all on tape – not the best quality, but got it.
The police met him at a gas station close to a family member’s home. He had a wooden bat in his truck. The plates on the truck were stolen. He never had a cell phone. The number was to someone else home. He was homeless and lived out of his truck.
I later learned, he used my cell phone to call someone after every time he raped me to brag about it.
He went out and bought drugs within 15 minuets of leaving me.
He laughed throughout his interrogation and in front of the judge when they booked him.
Four men came upon us at the lake when I was passed out in the truck. He “showed me off” to them. The 4 wonderful men came forward after the news broke and were willing to testify on my behalf.
The other man & his daughters came forward. And the puzzle was done.
There is no doubt in my mind that this animal would have killed me. There is no doubt in my mind that this animal would have killed someone else if I did not go to police.
Survivor Forever (and ever AMEN)
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Message 120230 (In Reply to Message 120225)
Equalizer
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 21, 2003 01:00 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
You know I'm all for therapy for sex offenders. But when I read something like this I just shake my head. This guy was so brazen and without remorse he should NEVER get out. Its to bad there isn't some kind of test they can do to determine if someone has a conscious or not.
Silverthorne
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Message 120234 (In Reply to Message 120162)
myoung (my heart goes out)
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 21, 2003 01:23 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Unfortunately, giving the state of being, with your sister in the condition that she was in at the time. - it is VERY diffucult to get a conviction let alone a trial. Is the father on the birth certificate? If so - why? Of not - he has NO legal clame to that child. (depending on what state you are in) I would also advise her to get an "order of protection" against the guy. If he calls or comes near her or her child (your nephew) he will be arrested. She also has to be willing NOT to provoke him to calling or coming around. She could be arrested for that with the order in place.
If she would rather sue for child support. In that case he would have to be declared the father and would also be granted visitation.
As far as a criminal case against him for the rape - sorry to say - I also (even from my situation) do not think she has a chance. Unles she is willing to find an attorney to work "pro bono". The child is proof that sex took place but the child is not proof that a rape had occured.
I am sorry,
Survivor Forever
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Message 120237 (In Reply to Message 120225)
A true survivor
Posted by Rachel
on Oct 21, 2003 02:05 AM | Also by Rachel
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
I am almost speechless after reading your story...I can barely comprehend what a horrendous experience that must have been.
What an incredibly courageous person you must be to have suffered so much, and still gone back the next day to make sure the police could put him away.
I'm not sure if you mentioned when all this happened - has he been sent to prison yet ? If so, how long is he in for ?
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Message 120239 (In Reply to Message 120234)
thanks for that
Posted by myoung
on Oct 21, 2003 03:35 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
It truly was tragic and yes he had to be named on the birth certificate in order to get state and federal benefits. She was unable to work during her rehabilitation time and needed welfare. She was told that it was necessary for her to sue for child support in order to obtain benefits. I didn't think that was very fair. What if she really had no idea who the father was? Anyway, she was on welfare and in order to receive a pass through check to supplement her cash benefit, he would have to be paying support. Domestic Relations informed her that she would have to find him so she did. She found out through some members at AA where he was (he frequented the AA meetings in Allentown and Bethlehem) and when he was in Allentown. She called Domestic Relations and they did absolutely nothing to help her because he had no permanent address (he stayed with people when he came to town). He had a green card and would take off to his country on a whim so there was no regular pattern to his visits. Apparently his parents are very wealthy. His mother has even gone so far as to call my sister and harass her about seeing her grandson and how she wanted to send him money so they needed her address (yeah right). We later found out that my sister was not the only one and my nephew apparently has many half brothers and sisters. Poor little guy....he really wishes he had sibs too. What a feakin' creep! My kids are sort of sub sibs:)
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Message 120241 (In Reply to Message 120225)
DP1's Version of A Good Ending
Posted by dp1
on Oct 21, 2003 04:11 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
You mentioned he had a truck with a bat in it. Now if you said that the scumbag rapist took the bat and swung it at the Detective then the Detective reluctantly shot and killed him, I'd love your story!
I understand we all have rights and all but why or how does he have the right to breathe the same air as us? His actions make me sick. The only therapy he needs is jail therapy and a lot more than 6 short years! Make sure you bug the crap out of his Parole Officer till he gets so sick and tired of you calling that he gets off his duff and locks the rapist back up just to get rid of you. Trust me...it works.
DP1
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Message 120243 (In Reply to Message 120237)
RE; Rachel
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 21, 2003 05:08 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
First let me say thank you.
Second:
Read all the posts. I started at the beginning and told my story through capture. The trial is another matter. It never took place. He took a plea bargain of 6 (no early release) years. He should have received 15 to 35 each for 8 counts. I am comfortable with the plea for now, I know where he is. I could have NEVER lived with myself if I would have let this guy go. I don’t think of my attack, I think of the next women who would not or will not be as lucky. He will get out one day, and he will do this again, or worse. This animal will never be rehabilitated.
When this was happening and I was involved, I never had time to think about what I did or what had happened to me. I was in full “PI Mode”. I just did what I knew was the right thing to do. Nothing like a little dance with Satan to wake you up.
SurvivorForever
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Message 120504 (In Reply to Message 120058)
Another "survivor" of a different situation
Posted by lj
on Oct 26, 2003 08:49 AM | Also by lj
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Survivor:
I couldn't find the post to where you explained why you were a "survivor" rather than a "victim," but I thought you might appreciate this excerpt from an interview with Dr. Tana Dineen, a Canadian psychologist:
"Get on with life
Ms. Dineen remembers a young woman who came to see her with a specific request. A Christian Iranian, the woman had grown up in Tehran where she had married and had a child. One day, the police arrested her and her husband. She was imprisoned for eight months and repeatedly interrogated about her husband's activities. She discovered her husband had been tortured and executed. Eventually, she was released and, with help from her parents, fled to Canada with her daughter.
When she came to Ms. Dineen, she described her experiences of brutality and torture. She told of her fear, her nightmares, her loneliness and sense of loss. What most impressed Ms. Dineen, though, was the woman's refusal to cast herself as a victim. Despite her ordeal she was getting on with her life. She had learned to speak English and had been admitted to university. What she wanted from a psychologist was some help to develop ways to control her occasional feelings of panic that interfered with her concentration.
``She made it clear that she wanted to create a new life. She was a `survivor' already; so why call her a `victim'?
Sounds like both you and this person have a lot of internal strength.
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Message 120519 (In Reply to Message 120241)
Posted by orolan
on Oct 26, 2003 05:21 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
DP1 said:
>>>
bug the crap out of his Parole Officer till he gets so sick and tired of you calling that he gets off his duff and locks the rapist back up just to get rid of you. Trust me...it works.
>>>
Surely you aren't implying that you would violate a probationer who was otherwise strictly complying with his/her conditions on the sole basis that somebody called you incessantly and bugged you about said probationer? What do you do, violate them on the "Obey all instructions" condition"?
"Your Honor, I clearly informed the probationer that I wanted him to eat fetuccini alfredo every Tuesday and on the date in question, he was not in compliance with my explicit instructions, instead eating pot roast and mashed potatoes."
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Message 120528 (In Reply to Message 120504)
Posted by PVulcan
on Oct 26, 2003 06:49 PM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
It's interesting people's concept about the word survivor and victim. We have attached a negative connotation to the word victim, but if a person was assaulted, they were victimized, and did not choose it. The push by friends/family to see that victim become a survivor immediately can be detrimental to the healing process of that person. Even when someone achieves, or appears to have achieved that 'survivor' mode, the bottom line is they still were victimized and they will relive it over the years at different times, but do to pressures from friends/family they won't be able to discuss it, because after all, they are SURVIVORS now.
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Message 120546 (In Reply to Message 120519)
Failure To Eat Fetuccini Alfredo
Posted by dp1
on Oct 27, 2003 04:15 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Orolan,
Honestly. Do you think I would do that? And get laughed right out of Court? Funny comment but no that is not what I was implying. Do you really think it would be that hard to find a substantial violation on a rapist? They are not quite as compliant as the child molesters and other sex offenders. Sometimes liberal P.O.'s tend to overlook a few things and need a little help from the outside that's all I'm saying.
DP1
P.S. Don't worry you could go back to eating pot roast and mashed potatoes on Tuesdays.
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Message 120552 (In Reply to Message 120528)
survivor vs victim label
Posted by lj
on Oct 27, 2003 08:05 AM | Also by lj
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Some choose to not be defined by the act of the perpetrator upon them, so they discard the "victim" tag and see themselves rather as a "survivor." Being a "survivor" can create a more positive outlook while involved in a process of healing. It doesn't deter the process of healing from occurring.
On a ladder scale, being a survivor is in-between being a victim (bottom rung) and moving towards healing (top rung). Survivors do what it takes to reach a healthy life again--including talking with others about their experience. It also gives them strength to help others along the way.
Although it's true that if a person was assaulted, they were victimized and did not choose it--some choose to not stay a victim.
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Message 120562 (In Reply to Message 120552)
All Is Back To Normal
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 27, 2003 01:54 PM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
The healing process was slow, in the beginning. I was seeing a rape councilor and attending a group. It was fine for the first couple of weeks but then I just got tired of talking about it. I had developed PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). Six months after the attack and decided to go back to the group. I was still tired of talking about the attack. I was look at by the group as the major warrior and I HATED that. Wouldn’t 90% of the people in my shoes do the same thing? I have never seen myself as a victim. I still don’t. Every once in a while, that night flashes through my mind but is followed by thoughts of “The Hunted becoming The Hunter”. I choose to live my life on that aspect of the rape rather then crawl into a hole and die.
There were rumors that my rapist might get out on bail due to a family member of his posting it. I lived utter fear of that. I think that is what caused the PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). My daughter was separated from me and sent to live with another family member at my request. I was afraid that he would get out and hurt her or us in retaliation. And he would have. I still fear that at times and I probably always will.
The true healing began when I packed up and left the state changed my job and began a new life. I became an average Joe again. No one in my new circle knows what I did, or what had happened to me, with the exception of 2 very close friends. Life is normal for me now.
SurvivorForever
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Message 120566 (In Reply to Message 120546)
Pot Roast
Posted by orolan
on Oct 27, 2003 02:16 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Truthfully I didn't think you would do such a thing. It was good for a laugh, though.
I realize that some P.O.'s may overlook the small things that are technical violations, like a parking ticket. But they shouldn't be overlooking bigger things like curfew violations without at least warning the probationer that the practice can't continue.
The problem here is violating the probationer strictly because somebody who thinks he/she should be in prison calls you every day just to complain about sentencing practices. That wouldn't be right. Now if the person is calling to inform you of probable violations, that's different.
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Message 120619 (In Reply to Message 120566)
Substantial and Technical Violations
Posted by dp1
on Oct 28, 2003 02:47 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Parking tickets and other civil infractions are not considered technical or substantial violations (here in Fla). However, a DUI is a criminal traffic violation as well as speeding 130 MPH in a school zone which are considered violations and can lead to revocation. Skipping curfew, not reporting to your probation Officer or sex offender therapist are all technical violations and can also be grounds for revocation. When a victim calls to complain about sentencing it's not a violation. But if they offer information such as witnessing the sex offender contacting children, using alcohol or drugs, leaving the county without permission, etc....then the PO has a responsibility to investigate and report to the Court. All I'm saying is that with more eyes looking at the situation the chances of finding violations increase. Citizen complaints are a good thing. The Judge reviews all the evidence, so it would be highly unlikely that charges brought forward by the PO wouldn't have any merit. There are checks and balances in the system believe it or not.
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Message 120632 (In Reply to Message 120619)
Question for DP1
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 28, 2003 09:42 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
"But if they offer information such as witnessing the sex offender contacting children, using alcohol or drugs, leaving the county without permission, etc....then the PO has a responsibility to investigate and report to the Court. "
DP1,
If it is found to be an unsubstantiated complaint (or even false) is the "victim" charged with false reporting? (also a crime).
Silverthorne
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Message 120641 (In Reply to Message 120632)
False Reporting
Posted by dp1
on Oct 29, 2003 02:33 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
When a victim complains to the probation officer the officer investigates. If there is reason to believe that the offender violated the terms of his/her supervision then the officer submits a report to the Judge and arrests the offender. The victim does not file a report directly to the Court. If during the Court process the victim is called as a witness then he/she must testify truthfully. Lying to the Court can result in jail time.
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Message 120644 (In Reply to Message 120641)
What if?
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 29, 2003 04:11 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
What I'm asking though is lying to a PO the same as lying to a police officer? Giving false information to a police officer is a crime in most states as is filing a false police report.
On an even more "extreme" note what would happen if it were a false claim and the SO then sued the victim for damages based on the results of the claim (say he was temporarily detained or his house ransacked or something - emotional trauma).
Silverthorne
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Message 120655 (In Reply to Message 120644)
Lying to a Probation Officer
Posted by dp1
on Oct 29, 2003 04:50 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
If lying to a Probation Officer was a prosecutable crime then I would be too busy locking up criminals having no time left to answer phone calls or e-mails from victims. We get lied to all the time. It's our job to sort out the fact from fiction as best as humanly possible. Did you know that it is a violation of probation for a sex offender to lie to his/her PO? If I violated every single sex offender that lied to me then I would be out of a job. I never pressed charges against a lying victim nor have I ever wanted to. I try and focus on the sex offender's behavior not the rest of the world....not enough time in the day for that.
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Message 120677 (In Reply to Message 120655)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 29, 2003 05:13 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
DP1,
I understand the probationers lie to you. I guess what I'm wondering is given your understanding that stress is a "danger" to a recovering sex offender do you see where false accusations could be damaging to the probationers "condition". Is there any consequence for that or is the offender just supposed to sit around and 'take it' when a victim lies about them.
Silverthorne
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Message 120691 (In Reply to Message 120677)
What Kind of Lies?
Posted by dp1
on Oct 29, 2003 10:32 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Silver,
What kind of lies are you talking about? A good P.O. will sort it out and shrug it off. Pretty much every victim tells me my guy is an a-hole, this and that, yada yada yada, so? Are those lies?
DP1
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Message 120692 (In Reply to Message 120691)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 29, 2003 10:53 PM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
I guess I'm thinking of specific lies like "he called me and told me he'd kill me" or "he's following me around" or "I saw him with a kid". Something specific like that.
Silverthorne
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Message 120700 (In Reply to Message 120692)
Victim Lies
Posted by dp1
on Oct 29, 2003 11:54 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Silver,
Your example of lies would be investigated and reported to Court if substantial. Only the P.O. would know if revocation is possible. If Court action was necessary the P.O. would have told the victim that their testimony was necessary in Court. Personally, I have them do a notorized statement before I make the arrest. Chances are that if they are lying they wouldn't be willing to put their comments in writing and be willing to go to Court. We try to sort out the BS as best as possible. We don't have time for fake violations. To really answer your question you are saying basically can a victim commit perjury? Yes anyone can.
DP1
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Thread
120058, SurvivorForever, Oct 18, 2003 08:43 AM [Red Flags - Go With The Gut Feeling ALL TH...]
120082, dp1, Oct 19, 2003 01:03 AM [Awesome Real Life Story!]
120106, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 04:17 PM [Oh!]
120154, SurvivorForever, Oct 20, 2003 04:23 AM [orolan - it's ok]
120158, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 04:33 AM [Reply to Oh]
120159, SurvivorForever, Oct 20, 2003 04:34 AM [CREDIT]
120132, Silverthorne, Oct 19, 2003 11:45 PM [Wow]
120152, SurvivorForever, Oct 20, 2003 04:17 AM [The Escape]
120162, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 05:16 AM [Marta]
120196, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 04:10 PM [survivor forever]
120211, SurvivorForever, Oct 20, 2003 11:09 PM [Myoung]
120225, SurvivorForever, Oct 21, 2003 12:33 AM [The Capture - End of story]
120230, Silverthorne, Oct 21, 2003 01:00 AM [Equalizer]
120237, Rachel, Oct 21, 2003 02:05 AM [A true survivor]
120243, SurvivorForever, Oct 21, 2003 05:08 AM [RE; Rachel]
120241, dp1, Oct 21, 2003 04:11 AM [DP1's Version of A Good Ending]
120519, orolan, Oct 26, 2003 05:21 PM
120546, dp1, Oct 27, 2003 04:15 AM [Failure To Eat Fetuccini Alfredo]
120566, orolan, Oct 27, 2003 02:16 PM [Pot Roast]
120619, dp1, Oct 28, 2003 02:47 PM [Substantial and Technical Vi...]
120632, Silverthorne, Oct 28, 2003 09:42 PM [Question for DP1]
120641, dp1, Oct 29, 2003 02:33 AM [False Reporting]
120644, Silverthorne, Oct 29, 2003 04:11 AM [What if?]
120655, dp1, Oct 29, 2003 04:50 AM [Lying to a Prob...]
120677, Silverthorne, Oct 29, 2003 05:13 PM
120691, dp1, Oct 29, 2003 10:32 PM [What Kind...]
120692, Silverthorne, Oct 29, 2003 10:53 PM
120700, dp1, Oct 29, 2003 11:54 PM [Vic...]
120234, SurvivorForever, Oct 21, 2003 01:23 AM [myoung (my heart goes out)]
120239, myoung, Oct 21, 2003 03:35 AM [thanks for that]
120504, lj, Oct 26, 2003 08:49 AM [Another "survivor" of a different situation]
120528, PVulcan, Oct 26, 2003 06:49 PM
120552, lj, Oct 27, 2003 08:05 AM [survivor vs victim label]
120562, SurvivorForever, Oct 27, 2003 01:54 PM [All Is Back To Normal]
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