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Forum: Old Message Board

Thread (Discussion): supremes to hear 'net porn law

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Message 118274 (In Reply to Message 118251)
Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law

Posted by x_orolan on Oct 15, 2003 10:31 AM | Also by x_orolan

Gender: , Age Bracket: , State: , Country:

"Most quality sites offer multiple forms of payment, e.g., paypal, ibill, with a check, etc. all of which are performed discretely"
These require a checking account(don't have and won't have one of those either)

"there must not be an undue burden placed on one kind of speech because of its content"
The overall issue here is that ALL persons would have to provide their credit card numbers. So the "burden" isn't on the few who don't have them, it's on all the others who do.
And the issue isn't about the operator's ability to dispense the "free speech". It's about the individual's ability to see it.
To avoid an "undue" burden due to content, credit card info would have to be required to view EVERYTHING. That would be fair and equitable, applied regardless of the content to be viewed.

"getting a state I.D. and social security #"
These are requirements by statute. Most states require ID, and the Fed requires SS#'s. They are far from being a voluntary surrendering of privacy.

"providing identification to get a library card"
Stretching it a little, aren't you? Remember, a person can go to the library and read the books without ever getting a library card. They just can't take it home. So nobody is "required" to surrender privacy to exercise their right to read the books.

"getting permits to demonstrate for a cause"
Note that this, along with your other examples, all involve dealings between individuals and the government. They have nothing to do with private dealings between two individuals, or an individual and a business. For the most part, they are irrelevant to the issue at hand. Now if the government decides that you have to put your VISA card number across the top of your placard and show it while you protest, what then?

"make it such that the operators of sites with sexual content can no longer keep running their websites"
Again, the issue is a person's ability to see the content without an undue invasion of his or her privacy, not the site operator's ability to display the content.

"a highly compelling state interest in keeping web pornography from children."
The number one recommended method to prevent children from viewing pornography on the Net is for the parents to monitor the activity. Number two is screening software like Net Nanny. So if there is such a "compelling interest", how about a law requiring that all access by children be in the presence of an adult? Wait, that would unfairly burden the parents, and be unconstitutional. Or would it? Or maybe the government needs to require screening software on all computers used by a child, even in private homes? Or are we back to an unconstitutional "undue burden"?

And in closing, we get back to that jurisdiction question we debated way back. Will we be sending the FBI to Sri Lanka to apprehend a site operator because he refused to put an age verification procedure on his site and some poor 15 year-old boy seems to have "accidentally" stumbled upon reallybighooters.com while searching for data on the Roman Empire?

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Message 118251
Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law

Posted by x_marta on Oct 14, 2003 08:35 PM | Also by x_marta

Gender: , Age Bracket: , State: , Country:

orolan wrote:
> 
> Right. I don't have one. Don't have a home phone, either. My
> cell phone is in the name of my business. I'm a "non-person"
> as far as the Net goes, which is why my name will never show
> up in a search engine, in the MSN White Pages or in any other
> of the people-finder sites. I'd like to keep it that way. But
> if I were one who frequented adult sites, I would have to
> choose between that privacy and my desire to look at the sites.

No you wouldn't.  Most quality sites offer multiple forms of payment, e.g., paypal, ibill, with a check, etc. all of which are performed discretely.  But even if this weren't the case, come on, where in the constitution does it say that the government has to bend over backward to make sure free speech is protected?  The standard for free speech protection is that there must not be an undue burden placed on one kind of speech because of its content.  That a tiny percentage of porn site customers could not gain access because they don't have a credit card and personal phone number would not, in my opinion, be an undue burden on the operators of these sites.  What, would they lose half of a hundredth of their business?

> Nobody should be required to surrender privacy in order to
> exercise a constitutional right. That would be a contradiction.

That's funny.  People surrender privacy to exercise constitutional rights all the time:  getting a state I.D. and social security #, providing identification to get a library card, getting permits to demonstrate for a cause, etc.  The only requirement (in this case) is that the burden not rise to the level of dampening free speech, i.e. make it such that the operators of sites with sexual content can no longer keep running their websites.  In the case of sites that are offering free anatomical or medical information, I can see the undue burden, but in regards to pornography, I do not, especially if one argues that there is a highly compelling state interest in keeping web pornography from children.

Thread

118217, x_simon, Oct 14, 2003 12:29 PM [supremes to hear 'net porn law]
      118230, x_orolan, Oct 14, 2003 03:11 PM [Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law]
            118232, x_Silverthorne, Oct 14, 2003 03:38 PM [Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law]
                  118244, x_orolan, Oct 14, 2003 07:10 PM [Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law]
                        118251, x_marta, Oct 14, 2003 08:35 PM [Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law]
                              118274, x_orolan, Oct 15, 2003 10:31 AM [Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law]
                                    118290, x_marta, Oct 15, 2003 07:59 PM [Re: supremes to hear 'net porn...]

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Forum: Old Message BoardThread (Discussion): supremes to hear 'net porn law

Message 118274 (In Reply to Message 118251)Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law

Message 118251Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law

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Forum: Old Message Board

Thread (Discussion): supremes to hear 'net porn law

Message 118274 (In Reply to Message 118251)
Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law

Message 118251
Re: supremes to hear 'net porn law