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Forum: Old Message Board
Thread (Discussion): QUESTIONS??????? - establishing boundries
Message 118215
QUESTIONS???????
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 14, 2003 11:30 AM | Also by x_tia
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new to this board, but a long story will try and make short,
my stepfather sexually abused me from ages 11-13, text book story, but the problem has recently arisen in my family in that my sister (his biological dau) started to suspect he was touching her four yr old dau,(his bio grandaughter,), investigation was completed by cys and they can do nothing as the little girl was not consistent in her testimony, however, worker was very troubled by this and believed something happened, also, this idiot admits to touching me and saying I led him on, he told the worker this!!!!!!!!!
my questions are this, my mother and he have threatened to sue my sister and i for liable, which is ludicrous, however, what are my rights as a victim? i live in pa and am 44, it just seems like the victims don't stand a chance with this stuff! and why would cys close the case, i ironically worked for cys for 4 years, so, i really don't understand,
thanks for listening!
Tia
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Message 118218 (In Reply to Message 118215)
Answers - and some questions for you
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 14, 2003 12:46 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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Tia,
If you worked for CYS for four years you probably have a better understanding then most of us as to why they do what they do. I know here in Arizona our CFS department is in the middle of a firestorm because several children have died or been harmed in high profile CFS cases.
If your father is threatening to sue you for libel there isn't alot you can do. Anyone can sue anyone in America. The real issue is will he collect anything?
You said he told the case worker he admitted touching you and that you "led him on". At what age were you when did this touching? (How old did he tell the CYS worker you were when this happend?).
How did this all come out with the granddaughter? What led he mother to suspect he was touching her? If she knew in advance he had molested you (how long ago did you tell her) yet left her own daugther with this man I'd wonder "why"?
If he admitted this to the caseworker he has no case against you. All you've done is make an accusation and he's admitted to it. Did he actually "admit" to it is the big question.
As for touching the granddaughter who is four those cases are honestly next to impossible to prove. You said the granddaughter was inconsistent in her testimony with the CYS worker. What exactly did she say and not say that made the worker believe there was "inconsistency".
I'll ask if your sister filed a police report. CYS is fine for some things but a criminal investigation is another matter. The police have to investigate themselves. You might also consider filing a complaint regarding your own abuse. Even though your an adult now and he can't be prosecuted it might be good to get it out into the open. Then you'd have some "ammunition" in any libel action he takes.
Have you had any therapy or psychological help for this abuse? Have you ever mentioned it to anyone. When did you FIRST tell someone about it? When did you tell your sister about it? If you told someone years ago your case is alot stronger then if it just "came up now".
Lastly keep in mind your grandfather does NOT have the right to see his granddaugther. Your sister needs to not allow him to see her. Several high profile court cases have occured in which grandparents were told they do NOT have a right to see a grandchild if its against the wishes of the parent.
Silverthorne
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Message 118237 (In Reply to Message 118218)
Re: Answers - and some questions for you
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 14, 2003 04:43 PM | Also by x_tia
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oh my, i did tell family members, i was 11, this is not my grandfather, although my stepgrandfather touched my sister and i inapp. as well (just gets better), lol
anyhow, this was my stepfather, he DID admit to the worker that he touched my inapp, state police were to contact me but never did,
his grandaughter, whom he touched and licked allegedly, tells things sporadically, they are sending her to counceling and if she restates this, they will reopen the case, it is very hard to get a child to be consistent with their testimony and that is the biggest determent to a cys investigation,
stupidly, we only know for sure that he has sexually abused 2 female stepdaughters, being myself and one from a former marriage, so stupidly, we thought he would never harm or touch his own bio, grandchild, this is partly why i stood behind my sister, and came out with the truth to my mom, but over 30 years ago i told my oldest bro whom now refuses to believe it and is taking sides with my mother. it is a long sad story, i was just looking for additional info and have located some on victimbar@ncvc.org, i know past age 23 nothing can be done, i am just trying to gain knowledge from a legal standpoint if this should come to fruition, their threat of a lawsuit, from the cys perspective, i understand all too well, so hope i answered your questions, and thanks for your response,
tia
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Message 118238 (In Reply to Message 118218)
Re: Answers - and some questions for you
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 14, 2003 04:58 PM | Also by x_tia
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yes, i told my oldest brother over 30 years ago, he now is siding with my mother! my other siblings have know for quite awhile.
this was my stepfather, ignorantly we assumed this man would not try to molest his own grandaughter! dumb and professionally, i should have known better! was also touched inapp by stepgrandfather, just was one big party for me growing up,
i know the cys routine, consistency MUST be present in all cases which is extremely diff with a small child, they are sending her to counceling, and if she reveals anymore the case will be re-opened,
a state trooper was to interview but NEVER did interview me, but did my sister
i am aware nothing can be done after age 23, i was asking more for the legal realm of things, i did find some resources in victimbar@ncvc.org. i have been told a judge would not even hear such ludicrous stuff, i was 11 for gods sake.
i had some sporadic counceling over the years,
my sister after strongly suspecting and her dau telling her things moved immediately, which was tough as they had a home on their property, these are very controlling, manipulating, sick people we are talking about here!
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Message 118239 (In Reply to Message 118218)
Re: Answers - and some questions for you
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 14, 2003 05:04 PM | Also by x_tia
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it is not my grandfather, although he touched my sister and i inapp too
cys and state trooper did investigate,he never contacted me! consistency must be present to prosecute, less, it does not hold up in court,
i told this to my brother over 30 yrs ago and he is siding with my mother! other siblings knew later on in years,
she did move immediately after knowing for sure something was happening
he did admit to cys worker that he touched me inapp
i was asking for legal help, out of my realm really
i found a site victimbar@ncvc.org
thanks
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Message 118240 (In Reply to Message 118218)
Re: Answers - and some questions for you
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 14, 2003 05:06 PM | Also by x_tia
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whoops!
sorry just realized i posted about 3 times!!! sorry
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Message 118261 (In Reply to Message 118240)
Go on the offensive
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 15, 2003 03:10 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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OK so it was your stepfather who molested you and now his granddaughter (I get it).
It sounds like the police and CYS have been notified even if something wasn't done (like you said they are investigating). Something may yet come of it.
I believe he is threatening you in an attempt to assure your silence. He feels by intimidating you he can stay hidden.
You did say you told people back when you were a child correct? From the sounds of it others knew but no one talked?
He's trying to scare you. If your not a lady of means (financial) I'd recommend you contact Legal Aid and talk to them. The next time this "father" brings up a lawsuit (how did he tell you about it before anyway???) tell him you've already contacted an attorney and requested all the records from all his suspected cases. I'm sure he'll realize his dirty laundry will become very public. Expect to see him fold.
Silverthorne
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Message 118280 (In Reply to Message 118261)
Re: Go on the offensive
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 15, 2003 11:37 AM | Also by x_tia
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stepfather admitted to cys worker he had touched me inapp,. although he failed to tell he also took my virginity, and then it did stop,
he admitted to my mother, but like i said, they say i led him on and i was 11!!!
i did not tell the rest of my siblings until i was out of the house at 18,
i sure am not a lady of means, a lowly social worker! but i am going to call legal aid,
my sick mother talks to my dau and tells her this crap and she also told my other sister, that they intend to sue and take my home, i am not overly concerned, but just trying to educate myself in the event this does come to fruition,
thanks for listening,
Tia
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Message 118285 (In Reply to Message 118280)
Tia - you need to strike now!
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 15, 2003 05:16 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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If he admitted ANYTHING to the CYS caseworker you MUST GET A COPY OF THOSE FILES!!!!!!
Even if he played it down by saying touched you and didnt do anything else (you mention taking your virginity) this alone is damning.
In for a penny in for a pound.
You MUST get those file copies and put them somewhere secure like a safe deposit box. It is you ONLY proof he did this. Also you need to try and talk to him and record the conversation. I know recording conversations on the phone is illegal in most states but maybe going to speak to him in person with a hidden recorder and getting him to acknowledge what he did would help.
Try this scenario:
1) Hire a PI to set you up with a hidden recorder.
2) Call your stepdad and tell him you need to talk to him. If he resists tell him its either talk to you or the police. He'll talk.
3) Go over and see him. Talk to him in private.
Tia: Dad, I know what you did and so do you. You violated me and I'm upset. Now your threatening to sue me. Why?
Dad: blah, blah, blah
All he needs to do is say "yeah but that was a long time ago" or "If you drop this I'll not sue you", anything like that to get him to confess directly or indirectly to abusing you.
Then when you have the tape LOCK IT UP in the safe deposit box. Its your insurance.
I'll tell you what. If down the road he does decide to sue you, first it will be very hard to do because he'll be dragging out all his dirty laundry into the public eye, second its very expensive. Unless he has money he wont be able to do this. Third you have an admission of improper touching. Any arguments he makes about "you leading him on" will be crucified in the courts. I mean honestly the thought of an 11 year old seducing her father is so abhorrant to our courts they'll never buy it.
You on the other hand have everything. To be honest since you have a tape (hopefully), CYS reports with his admission, and other stuff, maybe YOU SHOULD SUE HIM.
Go on the offensive. While he has no case and would have to hire a lawyer on retainer (like it or not) you on the other hand are a crime victim and probably could find a lawyer or legal aid to represent you for a percentage of any settlement.
You probably don't know my background but I was one of the first people in the US to successfully sue a school district for sexual abuse suffered at the hands of a teacher. The lawsuit took seven years to settle and endured countless appeals and some legislative law changes during the process.
But the road is now paved. You can now sue in an enviornment favorable to victims. I'd strongly recommend it.
If you like you can send me an email at derekaz2003@yahoo.com . I'd need your home state/city and I'll attempt to locate an attorney for you. I don't need your name or anything I'll just get a name for you to call yourself. Steve the webmaster here can attest to the fact I routinely act as a "finder" of information and referrals for people.
You really need to get those CYS records. ANYTHING where he acknowledges what he did to you even if he plays it down is completely damning. Keep in mind the burden of proof in civil cases is far less then criminal ones. There is no "reasonable doubt" just 51/49 majority of evidence. If you have investigations, reports, niece talking about abuse, social workers who suspect something happend, a recording of him or your mother (that would be good - get her to talk about it) admitting it happend, then YOU are in control.
You really need to take the bull by the horns here. Even if you don't get a big settlement if you can get ANY victory it will be that - a victory - and totally eliminate any chance he would have of trying something.
Don't wait until he does it to countersue. You need to strike first.
Silverthorne
DerekAZ2003@yahoo.com
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Message 118311 (In Reply to Message 118285)
Re: Tia - you need to strike now!
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 16, 2003 09:55 AM | Also by x_tia
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thanks silver!
i will attempt to call my sister and have her talk to the worker and see what can be done about preserving this info, i am worried, because all unfounded cases have to be shredded within 120 days!
i will email you privately at home, can't email at work, can read them, but not respond, gestapo blocked us!! LOL
thanks again,
Tia
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Message 118323 (In Reply to Message 118311)
Re: Tia - you need to strike now!
Posted by x_Sisco
on Oct 17, 2003 11:05 AM | Also by x_Sisco
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The criminal justice system demands proof beyond reasonable doubt.
The civil court only requires preponderance of the evidence. He admitted he touched you. That is all the proof you need in civil court. He broke the law and victimized you.
Get a civil lawyer and sue.
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Message 118326 (In Reply to Message 118323)
Re: Tia - you need to strike now!
Posted by x_tia
on Oct 17, 2003 11:42 AM | Also by x_tia
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hearing you, loud and clear,
thanks!
tia
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Message 118343 (In Reply to Message 118261)
establishing boundries
Posted by x_darlene
on Oct 18, 2003 02:36 PM | Also by x_darlene
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I know that right now you may not want to hear this, but as a survvior here goes.
You MUST take control of your life... and there will be consequences...
it may cost you everything, but you will gain yourself back and healing to boot.
The best start is with a book by John Townsend and Henry Cloud called BOUNDRIES . you can get a free copy by going to www.family.org and ordering it, under donation info just put zero. That is there as a resource for what you can afford. It is an excellent book about establishing boundries after yours were so everely violated, and learning that you bear responsibility in your healing and in your life. therefore.... when he intimidates, he has crossed a boundry and you have a right and 'permission ' to resist.
I hope you are at a place you can understand and you will go there and order the book. you can get up to 5 resources at a time without question. enjoy. love darlene
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Thread
118215, x_tia, Oct 14, 2003 11:30 AM [QUESTIONS???????]
118218, x_Silverthorne, Oct 14, 2003 12:46 PM [Answers - and some questions for you]
118237, x_tia, Oct 14, 2003 04:43 PM [Re: Answers - and some questions for you]
118238, x_tia, Oct 14, 2003 04:58 PM [Re: Answers - and some questions for you]
118239, x_tia, Oct 14, 2003 05:04 PM [Re: Answers - and some questions for you]
118240, x_tia, Oct 14, 2003 05:06 PM [Re: Answers - and some questions for you]
118261, x_Silverthorne, Oct 15, 2003 03:10 AM [Go on the offensive]
118280, x_tia, Oct 15, 2003 11:37 AM [Re: Go on the offensive]
118285, x_Silverthorne, Oct 15, 2003 05:16 PM [Tia - you need to strike now!]
118311, x_tia, Oct 16, 2003 09:55 AM [Re: Tia - you need to strike now!]
118323, x_Sisco, Oct 17, 2003 11:05 AM [Re: Tia - you need to strik...]
118326, x_tia, Oct 17, 2003 11:42 AM [Re: Tia - you need to stri...]
118343, x_darlene, Oct 18, 2003 02:36 PM [establishing boundries]
118344, Rejected
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