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Forum: Old Message Board

Thread (Discussion): Moral Equivalent?

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Message 118327 (In Reply to Message 118318)
Re: Moral Equivalent?

Posted by x_orolan on Oct 17, 2003 12:04 PM | Also by x_orolan

Gender: , Age Bracket: , State: , Country:

Sorry about my "number manipulation", but there is no formal study of trends in my community. And I am obviously speaking of my community and not the whole country, as I said "Here where I am" or something to that.
The offenses I looked at to find out why they were dismissed were all crimes against persons, ie assault, rape, battery, domestic violence, stalking, etc. There were numerous others that were property crimes, but I passed over them.
The newspaper count is by no means 100% accurate. But it does show an "average" trend of more arrests than prosecutions.

"And if you're suing for defamation, you don't have to pay a lawyer either"
I don't know where you are, but around here lawyers expect to get paid. What you speak of is contingency fee arrangements. Not everybody does that, and good luck getting a contingency lawyer to sue somebody that has a net worth of 5 bucks.

I am working to change the system. But it will be by law, not by lawsuit.

See an abbreviation or acronym, but don't know what it stands for? Consult the Glossary.

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Message 118318
Re: Moral Equivalent?

Posted by x_marta on Oct 16, 2003 07:59 PM | Also by x_marta

Gender: , Age Bracket: , State: , Country:

orolan wrote:
> 
> There are myriad documented cases that have been dismissed or
> nolle prossed due to several reasons like "Witness statements
> are not credible", "Accused was incarcerated at the time so
> could not have committed the crime"(would you believe 5 of
> these in 2002 alone?), "Victim recanted statement", etc.
> Another indicator is that the Sheriff's Department arrests
> around 80 people per week. These arrests are printed in the
> paper once a week. Also printed is the court calender,
> listing out who was convicted and who entered a guilty plea
> that week. This number averages 60 per week. So what happened
> to the other 20? Granted, some are dismissed because the
> evidence isn't "strong enough". But you can bet that many are
> also dismissed because the charge is an absolute falsehood.
> And of course their is my own case.

Are we talking about rapes, all crimes, or what?  Your manipulation of these numbers is also a wee bit unconvincing here.  That's why I like formal studies.

> A civil suit shouldn't be needed. After all, the girl didn't
> go pay a lawyer to sue me for stalking, did she? No.

And if you're suing for defamation, you don't have to pay a lawyer either.  Defamation is a civil cause of action, like negligence.  You do not pay unless you're a defendant and you lose.  Even if you're a plaintiff and you lose, you still don't pay.  So all you've got to do is go find some attorney who is just as worked up about women who maliciously lie about being victims of crime as you are, and get him to take your case.  If you've just won a criminal trial, the tide is in your favor.  And the standard of proof in civil trials is far lower than that in criminal trials.  Given all that, if a guy sued for an injunction to force the woman to publicly recant (+lawyer's fees), a jury would look upon him even more favorably because it would be clear that he's not out for money, and (from the criminal trial) that he was found innocent of the crime by a court of law.  The jury would be tremendously biased in favor of such a man.  And yet nobody does it.

> Nope, its not the men.

It is the men. See above.

> Its the system, a system that thinks if we prosecute for false > claims, people will be reluctant to make real ones.

If you don't change the system, who will?  Bureaucracy is blind to ALL of the sufferings of people who must live by it.  Unless you make a hell of a lot of noise, nothing will change.

Thread

118055, x_marta, Oct 10, 2003 06:17 PM [Moral Equivalent?]
      118128, x_HPierce, Oct 13, 2003 09:03 AM [Yes]
            118165, x_marta, Oct 13, 2003 04:38 PM [I wasn't asking you.]
            118166, x_marta, Oct 13, 2003 04:42 PM [But while we're at it]
      118145, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 13, 2003 10:59 AM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
            118171, x_marta, Oct 13, 2003 07:08 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                  118321, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 17, 2003 01:11 AM [Re: Rape VS BS]
                        118336, x_marta, Oct 17, 2003 08:28 PM [Re: Rape VS BS]
                              118340, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 17, 2003 11:11 PM [Re: What to do!]
            118185, x_marta, Oct 13, 2003 07:44 PM [Trying to Survive]
            118243, x_marta, Oct 14, 2003 06:25 PM [That's What I Thought]
            118245, x_orolan, Oct 14, 2003 07:20 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                  118253, x_marta, Oct 14, 2003 08:45 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                        118275, x_orolan, Oct 15, 2003 10:50 AM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                              118292, x_marta, Oct 15, 2003 08:07 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                                    118300, x_orolan, Oct 15, 2003 11:28 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                                          118318, x_marta, Oct 16, 2003 07:59 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                                                118327, x_orolan, Oct 17, 2003 12:04 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                                                      118338, x_marta, Oct 17, 2003 08:40 PM [Re: Moral Equivalent?]
                                                            118350, x_orolan, Oct 19, 2003 11:57 AM [Re: Moral Equival...]
                                                                  118353, x_marta, Oct 19, 2003 08:14 PM [Re: Moral Equiv...]
                                                                        118363, x_orolan, Oct 20, 2003 03:41 PM [Re: Moral ...]
                                                                              118370, x_marta, Oct 21, 2003 09:10 AM [Re: Mora...]

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Forum: Old Message BoardThread (Discussion): Moral Equivalent?

Message 118327 (In Reply to Message 118318)Re: Moral Equivalent?

Message 118318Re: Moral Equivalent?

Thread

Forum: Old Message Board

Thread (Discussion): Moral Equivalent?

Message 118327 (In Reply to Message 118318)
Re: Moral Equivalent?

Message 118318
Re: Moral Equivalent?