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Forum: Old Message Board
Thread (Discussion): Internet registry of all sex offenders - Re: Pay for What?
Message 117997
Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_DonBaxley
on Oct 10, 2003 01:53 AM | Also by x_DonBaxley
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Why does anyone think that putting someones name on the Internet who committed a sex crime 20 or 30 years ago a good idea? I weekly read in the local paper of some coach or teacher molesting a kid. I have yet to read of a registered sex offender who was convicted of a crime 20 or more years ago re-offending. I am sure it has happened, but then we can not be sure of anyone.
Can we just be honest and acknowledge that most of us just want revenge and use child safety as the excuse. Let the police handle it, even if there has been time when they dropped the ball. Make strict registry rules that sex offenders must follow and if they do not, jail them, put their names on the Internet,do what you want they have had their chance, but at some time let them have their life, even if you feel they do not deserve it. Getting to them in the name of future victims will create another type of tragic victim. It surely will.
I feel sorry for any child who does not get the love and opportunity to enjoy life. I want to protect them, see them play, grow up and not be destoyed by a molester, but also not by an overzealous public. We have seen this happen many times with Child Protective Services. I'm sure they also meant well.
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Message 118040 (In Reply to Message 117997)
I agree 100%
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 10, 2003 02:31 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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I agree with you. While a registry may be a good idea on the short run these people need the opportunity to rebuild their lives and rejoin society.
In Alaska a there was a case where several homosexual men were put on the registry for sodomy convictions back in the 1950's when it was illegal to have gay sex there. Needless to say the law was changed but AFTER these poor people, many now in their 70's were forced to register as "sex offenders".
Part of therapy is the ability to control stress and manage your life. I would contend someone who 20-30 years ago committed a sex offense, was released, did their probation and completed it and made a life for themselves who suddenly has to register would cause great stress. Something 20 years ago should NOT be considered "dangerous" in the scope of things.
The original registry was for dangerous and violent offenders. It was warped by politicians and special interests to now include everyone.
Silverthorne
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Message 118053 (In Reply to Message 117997)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_Pattie
on Oct 10, 2003 06:00 PM | Also by x_Pattie
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Don-
I believe you have answered your own question..
Don Baxly wrote:
>Why does anyone think that putting someones name on the >Internet who committed a sex crime 20 or 30 years ago a good >idea?
>I have yet to read of a registered sex offender who was >convicted of a crime 20 or more years ago re-offending. I am >sure it has happened, but then we can not be sure of anyone.
I need to ask you..... Do you have children? How would you react if you found out that a crossing guard for your child's elementry school is a covicted sex offender? How would you feel if you later learned that he was convicted of Aggravated Sexual Assault against 2 male children under the age of 13? Now let's just say you have 2 very young boys yourself and this offender lives 1 1/2 blocks from your home. Still don't think you would want to know about his presence, even if the crime and conviction was let's say 17 years ago? Would you be confortable sending your young children off to school everyday know that this man is rated as a Tier 2 (moderate chance of re-offending)?
This is a situation that has surfaced in my town just today all due to the NJSP registry of sexual offenders, and I am so glad to be aware of his background. He is a very friendly man and spends time chatting everyday before and after school with the children and their parents. No one would ever think that he could be so sick as to commit this kind of crime. He seemed trustworthy enough. Now we have come to learn that he has lied about his name, not once, but twice to children, parents, and teachers of the school. He befriends everyone he comes in contact with and even has brought his dog to school for the children to play with.
Do you really think he should be given "a chance" to hide his background and true identity from the community? If so, WHY? Should it be okay for him to be working so close to such young children? Or should we just wait to see if he ever commits this same kind of crime again on another child? Should it be a wait and see situation? I love my children to accept that kind of answer. I am glad that the registry is public knowlege and hope that all people in all communities take advatage and get to know who is living in there area, no matter how long ago the crime was commited. It could save a life or two.
The people who commit these terrible crimes are very sick individuals and should never be allowed to work or volunteer around children. They may never re-offend but as you said "we cannot be sure of anyone".
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Message 118087 (In Reply to Message 117997)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_FredGarvin
on Oct 11, 2003 05:48 PM | Also by x_FredGarvin
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We need laws that deal with the offenders, not ones that let them out with nowhere to live. I am not defending them but if you can murder someone and be cleared in 7 years, why should pedophiles that grab an ass cheak be punished for life?
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Message 118111 (In Reply to Message 118053)
Some facts for Pattie
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 13, 2003 05:07 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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Pattie,
Your assertion he could "hide his past" is completely incorrect as were your examples including school crossing guard.
The Sex Offender Registry was originally intended to allow people to be warned of violent sexual predators. Now it includes everyone. For example in some states getting drunk and urinating on a sidewalk (indecent exposure) can get you on a registry as a "sex offender".
Just because someone isn't on a register doesn't mean they are "hiding". School districts and other employers who have children as clients do full background checks including fingerprint cards and everything else. A conviction 20 years ago would show up.
What we're talking about here is having someone who 20-30 years ago did something wrong then went thru probation, rehabilitated and moved on with their life suddenly being forced to register as a sex offender out of the blue. There are cases where people haven't reoffended and its been 20-30 years from their offense yet suddenly they are "registered" as a danger.
If you believe people are "sick" I'd contend EVERYONE should be on a registry for life if they commit any crime. To be honest someone who is a serial drug user or burglar is alot more dangerous then someone who fondled a boy 30 years ago.
Silverthorne
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Message 118116 (In Reply to Message 118053)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_Rob
on Oct 13, 2003 05:34 AM | Also by x_Rob
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While I understand your position, I also realize the registry in no way will prevent someone from getting a job as a crossing guard. What you cite requires employment background checks (on more than just a name), which have been in place for many years, way before registries, if they are done when someone seeks employment and usually today include fingerprints. It does sound like your school system failed in its duty to the community.
However, if a hundred people are standing on a street corner and many are children, how does the registry help at all? Unfortunately too many people are thinking the registries will keep children safe, and that is a false sense of security in the community.
Registries do no more than, --read qualifier below--, tell you where offenders live, or approximately. That doesn't make a family safe, what you do from that knowledge makes you safe or not.
Qualifier: If offenders are up to date, and thats a small portion of the problem, the main problem is, police do not have their data bases updated -read the news articles carefully- they want to blame the offenders, because they don't want the public in their police business.
http://napanews.com/templates/index.cfm?template=story_full&id=01CF0FFE-A958-4A6C-922E-1E64BD04B2E9
Study that article, 106,000 updates, how many are right since they are done by hand, and thats only one agency in the nation.
The news carries these articles all the time and they always blame the offender, because they don't want their work reviewed. However, that article tells you some of their problems.
I'll close with this thought, if you spend all your time trying to protect your children from REGISTERED SEX OFFENDERS you are not looking where most of the offenders are coming from, statistics and news articles always warn parents to watch the trusted people in your life.... Here are 2 places you should review:
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/news/stories/20031012/localnews/440977.html
http://www.geocities.com/eadvocate/issues/topic-attacker.html
All I am saying is, don't think "registries" are the answer to your child's safety, keep your eyes and ears open.
Rob
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Message 118118 (In Reply to Message 118087)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 13, 2003 06:42 AM | Also by x_anti
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sorry but if a pedo, or anyone but esp a pedo, was in prison, and was guilty, why is it anyones fault where he goes when he/she gets out?
you do the crime and sorry, but you need to realize that you will do the time , and that also means when you get ut, who said life as a so was nice? it need not be.
and who kills and just gets 7 yrs? humm, I would like to know, really..........and humm, who said that if a pedo grabed a as* cheek that would put them in prison, I think you are a bit off here with all this.
anti
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Message 118129 (In Reply to Message 117997)
smart man
Posted by x_HPierce
on Oct 13, 2003 09:08 AM | Also by x_HPierce
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You are right, having the sex offender register is wrong.. It is also wrong register someone who committed a non-violent sex crime that happened 20 minutes ago.
There has never been a person saved a sex offense by a direct link to the sex offender register. In contrast there is documented proof that it is used as an instrument of humiliation, discrimination, and source by vigilantes.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 118130 (In Reply to Message 118053)
what a crock
Posted by x_HPierce
on Oct 13, 2003 09:12 AM | Also by x_HPierce
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Shouldn't make a difference if the crossing guard was an ex sex offender. Most of us have bounced a check, been caught for speeding or worse. In nearly every case we expect to get a second, third, and more chances.
You are wrong lady. Everyone needs a chance to straighten their lives out and become a productive person in society. It is biased, hate that you expell in the name of safety.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 118155 (In Reply to Message 118129)
Re: smart man
Posted by x_DP1
on Oct 13, 2003 12:14 PM | Also by x_DP1
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H. Pierce wrote:
>
> You are right, having the sex offender register is wrong.. It
> is also wrong register someone who committed a non-violent
> sex crime that happened 20 minutes ago.
>
> There has never been a person saved a sex offense by a direct
> link to the sex offender register. In contrast there is
> documented proof that it is used as an instrument of
> humiliation, discrimination, and source by vigilantes.
>
> H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
That would be like saying that the warning labels on a pack of cigarettes have never saved a person from getting lung cancer. How can a warning which is meant to deter people from smoking be a bad thing? If people stay away from cigarettes and don't get cancer isn't that a good thing? So if warnings (registries) are in place and single moms choose to not date someone on the registry and her children don't get molested then what's the problem? If the people on the registry didn't want to be labeled as a threat to society then why did they commit such dangerous acts? The only way to fight sex crimes is to expose it and protect yourself. Obviously, intervention would be more effective in the first place but registries consist of people who already crossed the line and broke the law...too late for intervention. I proceed with caution regarding any initiateive which supports sex offending behavior or the cover-up thereof.
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Message 118176 (In Reply to Message 118155)
Re: smart man
Posted by x_orolan
on Oct 13, 2003 07:21 PM | Also by x_orolan
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I find the cigarette warning analogy interesting. Perhaps a more effective method than the registry would be to put instructions on proper education of children on packaging that will be SEEN by the children and parents? Toys, cereal boxes, clothes, coffee cups, Kool-Aid packages, etc. The possibilities are endless, and you don't need a computer.
And for a select few parents, labels printed on the tops of beer cans that say "Remember your child".
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Message 118182 (In Reply to Message 118118)
The problem is changing rules afterwards
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 13, 2003 07:30 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"you do the crime and sorry, but you need to realize that you will do the time , and that also means when you get ut, who said life as a so was nice? it need not be."
The issue is they've changed the rules. People who offended 20-30 years ago. Did prison, probation, rebuilt their lives and moved on now suddenly have a knock on the door or a letter saying they must register.
If someone hasnt reoffended in 30 years I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Especially if they changed the rules AFTER the offense was committed. Thats my real problem. Its like punishing them twice.
Silverthorne
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Message 118206 (In Reply to Message 118155)
Re: smart man
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 14, 2003 02:33 AM | Also by x_anti
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true, is my problem, yes if they never re offend again, great, great for the children, but if they do, and if them being on the sp reg could haved helped, well, yes a hard one, but they do need to stay there, maybe a different manner, as maybe more tech. as something like :
"john Doe, molested 2 under 12 yr olds in 1979, incarcinated, released, has not re offended since(to anyone's knowledge)(had to add that, lol)..............
it would be stating that he did commit a crime, hurt a child, but has not re offended since.
ppl still need to be made aware.
anti
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Message 118212 (In Reply to Message 117997)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_TessaW
on Oct 14, 2003 10:52 AM | Also by x_TessaW
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My family is involved at this time with a case against an alleged paedophile. I asked someone in authority if paedophiles are ever cured with therapay. I was told they are never cured. The paedophiles go to jail, where they talk to others like themselves ,they then learn what to say to the psychiatrists to make out they have repented.They are freed eventually and more often than not the reoffend.I do not care how many years pass. They should all be named and shamed.
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Message 118223 (In Reply to Message 118206)
Re: smart man
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 14, 2003 01:09 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"john Doe, molested 2 under 12 yr olds in 1979, incarcinated, released, "
That would be good. Remember the link I posted to the Tempe, AZ registery. That was very specific about crimes:
John Doe, subject befriended a 12 year old boy, after sometime bound the boy and forced him to perform xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx before releasing him. Subject used knife to imply threat and threatend to kill boys parents if he told. Offenses happend 10.01.1979.
Now thats a useful entry. One that just has the charge (as most do) with no dates, no details, leaves alot to the imagination.
Silverthorne
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Message 118224 (In Reply to Message 118212)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 14, 2003 01:11 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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Keep in mind Pedophilia is a mental disorder and there are people who have it that DONT act out.
I assume you mean "name and shame" child molesters? Both those that are pedophiles and those that aren't?
I'll ask you then do you believe the registry is for protection or just a "shame" deal for an extra punishment?
Silverthorne
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Message 118228 (In Reply to Message 118224)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_Stephanie
on Oct 14, 2003 02:36 PM | Also by x_Stephanie
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I feel that it is for protection. I have four young children, I want to know if there is a child molester near my home. That way I can be extra careful, and so can they. We do have one that I know of, we don't say anything or do anything to that person. My childern know this person now so they can watch for him by the school where he has been seen lately. I feel that as parents we need to know just to protect our childern a little more, so that he doesn't have the chance to do it again.Silverthorne wrote:
>
> Keep in mind Pedophilia is a mental disorder and there are
> people who have it that DONT act out.
>
> I assume you mean "name and shame" child molesters? Both
> those that are pedophiles and those that aren't?
>
> I'll ask you then do you believe the registry is for
> protection or just a "shame" deal for an extra punishment?
>
> Silverthorne
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Message 118233 (In Reply to Message 118228)
Teaching kids to be safe is good !
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 14, 2003 03:41 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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Thats good. I encourage parents to properly educate their children on the dangers of sexual abuse.
I hope you are teaching them it isn't strangers who do most abusing. Over 90% of children are molested in the home, most by family or a close family friend.
They need to know they can talk to you about anything at all and you wont judge them. They need to know they need not be embarrassed about sexual matters. Teach them young because when they get older its alot harder to get thru to them.
Silverthorne
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Message 118250 (In Reply to Message 118224)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_TessaW
on Oct 14, 2003 07:50 PM | Also by x_TessaW
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If I thought they could be helped, I would not want sex offender registers. The person I spoke to about whether they reoffended said, "they never change".The person deals with them year in, year out. I want all parents to be able to let their children out to play without living in fear of them being abused. I dont think it is too much to want children to be children and not have their lives ruined by such people. I know I want an ideal world for our children . There has!!! to be something we can do to try and prevent the abuse.Maybe one day I will not feel so bitter but it is all new and it hurts.
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Message 118271 (In Reply to Message 118212)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 15, 2003 09:52 AM | Also by x_anti
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I agree.
anti
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Message 118272 (In Reply to Message 118224)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 15, 2003 09:56 AM | Also by x_anti
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silver, even if it is true where there r pedophiles who do not act out, why should they too not be on the so called shame list?
I mean looking at little boys/girls, w/ sexual violent, or even non violent thoughts, child porn, etc, that is that not something shameful?
anti
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Message 118276 (In Reply to Message 118250)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_orolan
on Oct 15, 2003 11:03 AM | Also by x_orolan
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"I want all parents to be able to let their children out to play without living in fear of them being abused. I dont think it is too much to want children to be children and not have their lives ruined by such people. I know I want an ideal world for our children . There has!!! to be something we can do to try and prevent the abuse"
Funny. I remember having free rein throughout the neighborhood as a kid, up until I was 11. I even rode my bicycle 4 miles to the shopping center just to ride in the huge parking lot. Kids were everywhere.
Child molestation is not AIDS. It isn't something that appeared from some other continent a decade ago and is now rampant throughout the country. It has ALWAYS been there.
So why do you have all this fear that my mother and the rest of the mothers in the neighborhood didn't have? True, we had no idea if the older guy down the street was a child molester or not. But we had sense enough to know we shouldn't go in his house alone. It wasn't a specific thing about him, it was a "knowledge" we had been given by our parents that such things weren't "right".
If you want a safe neighborhood, educate the kids. Don't just watch your kids. Watch ALL of them. And ask the other parents to do the same. This will do more than any registry will to protect the kids. Because you need to worry about the people who aren't on the registry, not the people who are.
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Message 118286 (In Reply to Message 118272)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 15, 2003 05:20 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"silver, even if it is true where there r pedophiles who do not act out, why should they too not be on the so called shame list?
I mean looking at little boys/girls, w/ sexual violent, or even non violent thoughts, child porn, etc, that is that not something shameful?"
Not when the thoughts are involuntary no. I'm not ashamed of my problem. Its something I live with.
In fact shame is dangerous. It leads to depression and feelings of self-worthlessnesss.
I've noticed in the past when my problem gets "worse" other things in life aren't going well - kind of a precursor to the problems.
The other question is how. How would you find these people if they knew they'd be "shamed" if they went and asked for help?
We want them to get help yet we do something to shame them - hardly motivating them.
Silverthorne
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Message 118291 (In Reply to Message 118286)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_DP1
on Oct 15, 2003 08:06 PM | Also by x_DP1
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The registry is not for people with deviant thoughts. It is a list of people who have proven to the community that they CAN NOT control their behavior and should be put on notice. Whether or not the crime was committed yesterday or 30 years ago is irrelevant. People with deviant thoughts should seek mental health intervention before they are in a position to act out.
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Message 118333 (In Reply to Message 118271)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_TessaW
on Oct 17, 2003 07:03 PM | Also by x_TessaW
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A new case today in our UK newspapers.There have been a lot of paedophiles caught through the FBI passing on names of perverts who used their credit cards to purchase child porn. A policeman had used his computer at work to buy and download thousands of child porn pictures. It was stated in the news today that the pervert had received community service because of his crime.My! goodness me, that will teach him. What a joke. The paedophiles must all be laughing their heads off. I get angrier by the minute.
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Message 118337 (In Reply to Message 118333)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_simon
on Oct 17, 2003 08:39 PM | Also by x_simon
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Do you think the light sentence was indicative of the sentence a typical child pornographer recieves or perhaps of the fact that he was a police officer? I tend to think the latter.
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Message 118364 (In Reply to Message 118337)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_TessaW
on Oct 20, 2003 03:52 PM | Also by x_TessaW
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I believe that some judges do not live in the real world.I know in the UK the sentence sex offenders get depends on which court they appear in. If they only appear before a Sheriff court (without a jury)I think the most they can be given is two years.If high court ,they can throw the book at them. That is if a jury finds them guilty. There are too many do gooders looking after the rights of the offenders. The victims are left to fend for themselves. Re the sentence the policeman got is probably because he is a policeman and because paedophiles get such poor sentences.One judge a couple of years ago told a sex offender to give his victim £500 to go on holiday. That was the abusers punishment. I could go on forever about this. Sorry if I bore some of you.
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Message 118368 (In Reply to Message 118364)
Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders
Posted by x_S
on Oct 20, 2003 08:59 PM | Also by x_S
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What about kids who like having sex with older men. And the older men has to pay. I think that the child should have to pay to. I'm not talking about rape or anything like that. I'm talking about to people that decides to do it.
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Message 118369 (In Reply to Message 118368)
Pay for What?
Posted by x_DP1
on Oct 21, 2003 12:15 AM | Also by x_DP1
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Is this post coherent? What are you talking about? Children (victims) paying for sex with Adults? Are you nuts or just sound that way?
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Message 118371 (In Reply to Message 117997)
Re: Pay for What?
Posted by x_TessaW
on Oct 21, 2003 10:03 AM | Also by x_TessaW
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No!!!!!!!!!! child has sex with an adult willingly. What age group are you talking about S?.The older men should! pay, by being locked up and the key thrown away.What age group are you S? Are you an older man?
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Thread
117997, x_DonBaxley, Oct 10, 2003 01:53 AM [Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118040, x_Silverthorne, Oct 10, 2003 02:31 PM [I agree 100%]
118053, x_Pattie, Oct 10, 2003 06:00 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118111, x_Silverthorne, Oct 13, 2003 05:07 AM [Some facts for Pattie]
118116, x_Rob, Oct 13, 2003 05:34 AM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118130, x_HPierce, Oct 13, 2003 09:12 AM [what a crock]
118087, x_FredGarvin, Oct 11, 2003 05:48 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118118, x_anti, Oct 13, 2003 06:42 AM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118182, x_Silverthorne, Oct 13, 2003 07:30 PM [The problem is changing rules aft...]
118182, x_Silverthorne, Oct 13, 2003 07:30 PM [The problem is changing rules aft...]
118129, x_HPierce, Oct 13, 2003 09:08 AM [smart man]
118155, x_DP1, Oct 13, 2003 12:14 PM [Re: smart man]
118176, x_orolan, Oct 13, 2003 07:21 PM [Re: smart man]
118206, x_anti, Oct 14, 2003 02:33 AM [Re: smart man]
118223, x_Silverthorne, Oct 14, 2003 01:09 PM [Re: smart man]
118212, x_TessaW, Oct 14, 2003 10:52 AM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118224, x_Silverthorne, Oct 14, 2003 01:11 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex off...]
118228, x_Stephanie, Oct 14, 2003 02:36 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex off...]
118233, x_Silverthorne, Oct 14, 2003 03:41 PM [Teaching kids to be safe is go...]
118250, x_TessaW, Oct 14, 2003 07:50 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118276, x_orolan, Oct 15, 2003 11:03 AM [Re: Internet registry of all sex off...]
118272, x_anti, Oct 15, 2003 09:56 AM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118286, x_Silverthorne, Oct 15, 2003 05:20 PM [Re: Internet registry of all s...]
118291, x_DP1, Oct 15, 2003 08:06 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex off...]
118271, x_anti, Oct 15, 2003 09:52 AM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118333, x_TessaW, Oct 17, 2003 07:03 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offenders]
118337, x_simon, Oct 17, 2003 08:39 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex offe...]
118364, x_TessaW, Oct 20, 2003 03:52 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex ...]
118368, x_S, Oct 20, 2003 08:59 PM [Re: Internet registry of all sex o...]
118369, x_DP1, Oct 21, 2003 12:15 AM [Pay for What?]
118371, x_TessaW, Oct 21, 2003 10:03 AM [Re: Pay for What?]
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