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Forum: Old Message Board
Thread (Discussion): Where is the justice - Re: Marta & Trying to Survive
Message 117799
Where is the justice
Posted by x_Ashley
on Oct 08, 2003 10:46 AM | Also by x_Ashley
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My name is Ashley I'm an 18 year old freshman at Eastern Kentucky Unviersity and I'm not so proud to say that I'm the fourth victim of six assaults on this campus in the past two months. I have reported my assault among others to the Campus police and yet nothing has been done. Just because I didn't say no and I didn't give some sort of shove or something my case was declared unfounded. You know.. since when do we have to say no? Since when did I have to make a move and say hey buddy you're only 100 lbs more then me and about two feet taller, but would you get the hell off? Yeah right. You show me one woman my size thats got the guts to tell some 6'0 250 lb rugby player to get the hell off of her without being hurt or something and I'll admire that woman forever. This isnt' fair. Just because I didn't do "noticable" action I still didn't want it to happen. So why does this make me at fault? Well I just want your opinion on it... am I really at fault for this? Or am I doing the right thing. This guy should be put up or at least lose his job as an RA in a dorm. An RA see's over many people... needless to say he's in a co-ed dorm. So he's around 100's of women everyday. Yeah so he's innocent until proven guilty. But what if I am telling the truth (which i am) What if I am? Are they really going to sit around and let him get away with it one more time until theres "noticeable" evidence to at least rip the position that he holds away??
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Message 117824 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_TryingtoSurviv
on Oct 08, 2003 01:11 PM | Also by x_TryingtoSurviv
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Hell of a place to be Mate ..... I can sence from your language this just happened like right now. Presumably you have never been trained to fight - in prison I was bashed and I do know how to fight. I realised I was only getting a bitch slap those sh*itbags aint uto much - but from a lot of guys - I took a fall and cause in prison the sh*tbags are only wearing sandshoes anyhow - cant hurt much - and as it happened my jaw was a bit sore and I hid my blood from those bastards.
Sad fact Mate in this human zoo you gotta fight - however repellent it may seem. And if someone is going life threatening fight like there is no tomorow cos if you dont there wont be. Count the consequences later but at the time you gotta fight for your life and dignity or else you are dead.
If you didnt do that I understand - dont think any the worse of yourself for that - learn that if you are afraid to die you are afraid to live - it says so in the Bible .
Your manly nature is still intact ..
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Message 117828 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 08, 2003 04:02 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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If you didn't bother to at least say "NO" what do you think should happen?
What were the total circumstances of this event. Everyone sees an assault as someone breaking in. Were you with him and this happend?
Why didn't you at least say "NO"?
Silverthorne
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Message 117831 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_Lildrafire
on Oct 08, 2003 04:39 PM | Also by x_Lildrafire
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Bypass the campus police and go straight to your local police. Tell them what you've told us.
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Message 117834 (In Reply to Message 117828)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_orolan
on Oct 08, 2003 04:50 PM | Also by x_orolan
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Yes. Tell us the circumstances, if you can. How did you come to be alone with this person? Did you know about his 5 other assaults in your dorm? And also, WHY didn't you say no? Surely one scream would have brought your fellow dorm members running, wouldn't it? Do you think he would have continued, or paused to beat you, with half the dorm watching?
Something smells here, and it ain't the fish.
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Message 117836 (In Reply to Message 117799)
How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 08, 2003 05:03 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"Just because I didn't do "noticable" action I still didn't want it to happen. So why does this make me at fault?"
I guess my question to you would be if you didn't do anything to let him know you didn't want to have sex how was he supposed to know?
Silverthorne
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Message 117838 (In Reply to Message 117824)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_Sisco
on Oct 08, 2003 05:05 PM | Also by x_Sisco
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It was rape. It was not your fault. He used a weapon, YOUR FEAR -against you.
You did the right thing. You reported the rape. Now report it again - to the local police.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE RESISTANCE TO PROVE RAPE.
You sound like you are experiencing "rape trauma".
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Message 117839 (In Reply to Message 117824)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_Sisco
on Oct 08, 2003 05:06 PM | Also by x_Sisco
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It was rape. It was not your fault. He used a weapon, YOUR FEAR -against you.
You did the right thing. You reported the rape. Now report it again - to the local police.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE RESISTANCE TO PROVE RAPE.
******************************************************
You sound like you are experiencing "rape trauma". See a counselor.
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Message 117865 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_marta
on Oct 08, 2003 09:35 PM | Also by x_marta
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Ashley wrote:
>
> My name is Ashley I'm an 18 year old freshman at Eastern
> Kentucky Unviersity and I'm not so proud to say that I'm the
> fourth victim of six assaults on this campus in the past two
> months. I have reported my assault among others to the Campus
> police and yet nothing has been done. Just because I didn't
> say no and I didn't give some sort of shove or something my
> case was declared unfounded. You know.. since when do we have
> to say no?
Since rape is defined as sex with a woman against her will. Are they supposed to read your mind? Unless it's a stranger rape, consent is far too muddled for accusers to claim they were afraid to say no.
> Just because I didn't do "noticable" action I still
> didn't want it to happen. So why does this make me at fault?
Your fault that it happened, or your fault that the guy faces no consequences?? In both cases, it's because you didn't make it clear, one way or another, that you didn't want to do what YOU ended up doing.
> But what if I am telling the truth (which i am) What if I am?
File criminal charges. Why, if a criminal act occurred, are you relying on the university to do something about it?
> Are they really going to sit around and let him get away with > it one more time until theres "noticeable" evidence . . .
uh, um . . . yeh. First off, the university doesn't really have jurisdiction to deprive someone of their rights, as they are not legally equipped to ensure due process (among myriad other reasons). Second, even if the university did have such power, AT THE MINIMUM, noticeable evidence that a rape actually occurred would be required. Otherwise reasonable doubt would certainly exist.
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Message 117866 (In Reply to Message 117834)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_marta
on Oct 08, 2003 09:40 PM | Also by x_marta
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Have you forgotten our discussion, or simply withdrawn?
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Message 117867 (In Reply to Message 117834)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_Ashley
on Oct 08, 2003 09:44 PM | Also by x_Ashley
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when the other assaults were mentioned, i did not mean that he was involved. these other assaults occurred on the eku campus, and i came to be alone with this guy because he was supposedly a trustable individual, seeing as he is an r.a. and i thought he was a friend. i guess status positions don't account for much in this world today. mainly, i wasn't looking for opinions on the case as much as recommendations as for what to do now.
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Message 117869 (In Reply to Message 117867)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_Steve
on Oct 08, 2003 10:20 PM | Also by x_Steve
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ashley wrote:
>
> when the other assaults were mentioned, i did not mean that
> he was involved. these other assaults occurred on the eku
> campus, and i came to be alone with this guy because he was
> supposedly a trustable individual, seeing as he is an r.a.
> and i thought he was a friend. i guess status positions
> don't account for much in this world today. mainly, i wasn't
> looking for opinions on the case as much as recommendations
> as for what to do now.
If you haven't yet done so, go to the local police precinct and file charges. Since you didn't provide many details I am not clear whether he commited rape in the eye of the law and whether there's sufficient evidence for criminal charges to be filed, but unless that's something you want to discuss I'll leave it at that.
-Steve, SexCriminals.com
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Message 117874 (In Reply to Message 117866)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_orolan
on Oct 08, 2003 10:50 PM | Also by x_orolan
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Marta,
No, I haven't forgotten. I'm mulling over a response, and juggling a few other plates while I'm at it. Look for something tomorrow AM.
Best.
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Message 117891 (In Reply to Message 117831)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 08, 2003 11:59 PM | Also by x_anti
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ty exactly as campus po are most times the worst.
anti
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Message 117892 (In Reply to Message 117836)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 09, 2003 12:00 AM | Also by x_anti
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ahh, silver how about fear????
anti
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Message 117903 (In Reply to Message 117838)
Re: Ashley
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 09, 2003 01:01 AM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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Ashley -
If you resisted or not is not the case. You survived it. That is all that matters. Report it immeadiatly. Bring a family member or close friend. Get this taken care of now! I'm here if you need to talk.
Survivor
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Message 117905 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 09, 2003 01:09 AM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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Ashley -
At the time of my rape, I was 110 lbs and 5'2. My rapist was 6'1 and 230 lbs. NO - I did not fight. I couldn't. I never had the chance to. He might have won the battle that night - but I won the war. You need to get to the REAL police immediately. Please! If not for you – do it for the next woman.
Survivor
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Message 117906 (In Reply to Message 117828)
Re: Silver
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 09, 2003 01:12 AM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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Silver -
Sometimes you can't say no. Sometimes you can't say anything but what comes to mind to save yourself.
Survivor
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Message 117908 (In Reply to Message 117891)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 09, 2003 01:38 AM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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anti wrote:
>
> ty exactly as campus po are most times the worst.
> anti
What difference does it make if he is on campus or joe blow next door or the stranger walking behind you? If he is a rapist - it is all the same.
Survivor
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Message 117920 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_TryingtoSurviv
on Oct 09, 2003 04:37 AM | Also by x_TryingtoSurviv
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I disagree with the other posters .. for mine ..I would put it down to experience. "Mistake" or "concent" are a complete defence in rape and I dont think you will make it stick. Even if you can prove he had sex with you the defendent will just say you smiled sweetly right through the thing and was he supposed to be a mind reader ? I dont think you will get it past reasonable doubt. The defendent will in addition be very pissed off at you ...
Tough Luck Mate I am sorry.... next time stick up for yourself ..
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Message 117931 (In Reply to Message 117920)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_Ashley
on Oct 09, 2003 09:35 AM | Also by x_Ashley
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who gives a @!#$ if he's mad at me the bastard ruined my life. What? he gets to live a normal life while I go through hell and cry every night to get myself to sleep.. I get to put my boyfriend through hell and all the people around me. Yeah thats almost fair. What if you're too afraid to fight? You don't know you've never been there. So how can all you people that keep saying "well you should have fought" sit there and say that. YOU'VE NOT BEEN HERE.. OR IN THAT SITUATION.
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Message 117932 (In Reply to Message 117903)
Survivor
Posted by x_Ashley
on Oct 09, 2003 09:38 AM | Also by x_Ashley
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Thanks so much for understanding.. some of the people on here *cough* tryin to survive *cough* really have no idea. They place the blame completely on me and thats NOT the reason I came on here. Do they really not think I blame myself as it is??? I mean come on... But whatever. Thanks for understanding it really is appreciated. :)
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Message 117947 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Survivor
Posted by x_TryingtoSurviv
on Oct 09, 2003 12:13 PM | Also by x_TryingtoSurviv
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No way Ashley am I doing that. I feel for your predicament and I understand how my post may have been seen as dismissive of your position. All I am saying is that the world of sex offenders - real or alledged is not a place you are used to being in - me niether. I wish you would re read my origional post so you could see the naunces you describe and I understand. I know this is one tough time for you .. no way am I being an ars*hole over this .. I certianly am not calling you a pansy for staying doggo on that one. Fact is you did and the likelyhood of getting a bust on it is nill ... Deal with it ...
You can rant and rave but fact is you are part of a human zoo ...you better pick the feed trough.
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Message 117955 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Survivor
Posted by x_PVulcan
on Oct 09, 2003 12:56 PM | Also by x_PVulcan
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Ashley
You did what it took to be alive, that is the most important thing. People say 'you should have fought back' because THEY think they would have if the situation happened to THEM, which is a false sense of safety to by into that. Every case is situational and you do what ever it takes to get out alive.
Ashley did you go the hospital and have a rape kit done within the first 72 hours after the assault? Do you have a Women's Center on your campus? They could/would hopefully refer you to your local Sexual Assault Center for services, if not you can contact www.rainn.com and they could put you in contact with a CSAP (County Sexual Assault Program) in your area. Also, it is probably a good idea, if you didn't have a forensic exam done, to make an appointment with your dr and have a 'well check' done, for your own piece of mind.
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Message 117967 (In Reply to Message 117836)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_Daphne
on Oct 09, 2003 02:51 PM | Also by x_Daphne
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What, are you kidding? Deliberately making a statement so confrontational and so contrary to the basic comprehension of forced sexual contact that it would shock and inspire debate? Or are you just being cruel? Or are you a man, and therefore far less likely to understand the feeling of complete helplessness?
How was he supposed to know she didn't want to have sex? How about her failure to make any effort at being a sexual partner engaged in the act? How about the fact that he had to MAKE it happen? When I woke up to my estranged husband subjecting my sleeping body to sexual intercourse, how did he know I didn't want it...after all, I hadn't had the opportunity to say no...I suppose he knew because of EVERYTHING THAT HAD ALREADY OCCURRED LEADING UP TO THAT ACTION. Use some sense, if not sensitivity...Silverthorne wrote:
>
> "Just because I didn't do "noticable" action I still didn't
> want it to happen. So why does this make me at fault?"
>
> I guess my question to you would be if you didn't do anything
> to let him know you didn't want to have sex how was he
> supposed to know?
>
> Silverthorne
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Message 117970 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Survivor
Posted by x_Sisco
on Oct 09, 2003 04:19 PM | Also by x_Sisco
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Anger can be overcome by activism. GO TO THE POLICE.
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Message 117983 (In Reply to Message 117920)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_Lildrafire
on Oct 09, 2003 08:56 PM | Also by x_Lildrafire
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What an insulting, condescending post! How dare you tell this young lady to just forget about it and chalk it up to experience. Let soemone violate you and see if you are willing to let it go. You don't know all of the story..none of us do...just because she didn't resist doesn't mean she didn't express to the guy she didn't want to be raped. Sometimes being a passive victim means the difference between getting hurt or getting hurt badly.
The guy is innocent until proven guilty, but you guys don't want to even give Ashely the chance to prove he is guilty!
Ashley, press the matter. If you were raped you deserve justice. It sounds as if the campus police and other officials there take a lax stance on abuse. Show them that you won't be victimized twice...fight for your right to be heard. You may save another woman the trauma of having to go thru the trauma of what you are suffering thru.
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Message 117984 (In Reply to Message 117920)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_marta
on Oct 09, 2003 09:18 PM | Also by x_marta
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trying to survive wrote:
>
> I disagree with the other posters .. for mine ..I would put
> it down to experience. "Mistake" or "concent" are a complete
> defence in rape and I dont think you will make it stick.
I agree, but here's the legal explanation why:
Mistake is a complete OBJECTIVE defense, i.e. it's a complete defense only where any reasonable law-abiding person could have made the same mistake. It is not a complete SUBJECTIVE defense, e.g. it is insufficient (in the face of obvious lack of consent) to simply say that you REALLY thought the other person was o.k. with it.
All of this is founded in the mistake-as-defense concept. Mistake is an affirmative defense, raised when it is clear that the criminal act was committed but where the requisite criminal mindset is not so clear, i.e. a person did in fact walk off with your car, but he did so because he thought it was abandoned. Both criminal act and criminal mindset must be present to convict of rape.
But here's where it gets tricky: sexual intercourse is not typically a criminal act, so before a rape victim even starts, she has more to prove than any other victim of crime, (a murder/ robbery/ torture victim). She has to prove that not only did he have sex with her against her will, but that he SHOULD HAVE known that it was against her will.
In cases of acquaintance/date-rape, that burden of proof soars through the roof if the girl does not fight or say "no." And rightly so. After all, if all that was required to obtain a rape conviction was the act of sexual intercourse and the mere existence of lack of consent on the girl's part (without any ostensible sign to that effect) ANY woman could say that any man raped her ANY time they had intercourse.
> Tough Luck Mate I am sorry.... next time stick up for
> yourself ..
NO DOUBT!!!!
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Message 117993 (In Reply to Message 117970)
Re: go to the police
Posted by x_jess
on Oct 10, 2003 01:26 AM | Also by x_jess
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it doesnt matter if you think it might be your fault or not... use your head and go to the police...no is no wither you started the intercource or not... once no is said its no.
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Message 118001 (In Reply to Message 117967)
Daphne - excuse me lady!
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 10, 2003 03:09 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"When I woke up to my estranged husband subjecting my sleeping body to sexual intercourse, how did he know I didn't want it...after all,"
Daphne (whoever you are). The question was for the orginal poster here who commented they didn't say "NO". I have no idea what your talking about or who you are.
Get a grip ok?
BTW I'm a rape survivor who DID say no (and was raped anyway because I was only 10) so if you feel like chewing someone out find someone else ok?
Silverthorne
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Message 118002 (In Reply to Message 117892)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 10, 2003 03:11 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"ahh, silver how about fear????"
What fear? All I've seen is a post that it was "unwanted" yet I've also seen her state she did nothing to let him know it was unwanted.
How did they end up in bed in the first place? Never seen an answer for that one either?
Some details as to what happend here would really help us make a judgement. Otherwise all we have is "you didn't say no" yet expected him to know.
Silverthorne
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Message 118003 (In Reply to Message 117983)
We need details - how it happend?????
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 10, 2003 03:14 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"Ashley, press the matter. If you were raped you deserve justice. It sounds as if the campus police and other officials there take a lax stance on abuse. Show them that you won't be victimized twice...fight for your right to be heard. You may save another woman the trauma of having to go thru the trauma of what you are suffering thru."
That would be fine if she at least said "no" or "stop". Ashley said she did "nothing noticable" to let him know it was unwanted. From the looks of her post the police already investigated and probably ruled it was consensual.
The point is you at least have to say "NO" to mean "NO". Nothing was done here.
Where not being mean Ashley. How did you end up with him anyway? Did you invite him up? Did you change your mind? What happend. You didn't post any details here at all. From what you posted it looks like you weren't "raped" technically but had sex and feel quilty about it afterwards. Sorry if that sounds cold but you've given us nothing in the way of an explanation how this all happend.
Silverthorne
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Message 118004 (In Reply to Message 117955)
Timeline???
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 10, 2003 03:16 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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"Ashley did you go the hospital and have a rape kit done within the first 72 hours after the assault? Do you have a Women's Center on your campus? "
Excellent questions. What did you do immediately after this happend? Did you call the police as soon as he left you? What was the timeline?
Silverthorne
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Message 118005 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Who did you tell?
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Oct 10, 2003 03:17 AM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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Ashley,
It looks like you talked to someone about this because you posted about "noticable refusal". My question is did you report this to someone already (who?) and if so did they investigate?
Thanks,
Silverthorne
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Message 118017 (In Reply to Message 117984)
Marta
Posted by x_Ashley
on Oct 10, 2003 10:11 AM | Also by x_Ashley
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> Tough Luck Mate I am sorry.... next time stick up for
> yourself ..
NO DOUBT!!!!
Excuse me??? First of all, who in the hell would want it to happened a second time, and mistake? COME ON WHAT KIND OF MISTAKE IS IT WHEN SOMEONE JUST LAYS THERE. do you really dig a chick just laying there while you put your tiny penis all up in her... I dont think so. So think again bastard
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Message 118038 (In Reply to Message 118017)
Re: Marta
Posted by x_marta
on Oct 10, 2003 02:09 PM | Also by x_marta
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ashley wrote:
>
> > Tough Luck Mate I am sorry.... next time stick up for
> > yourself ..
>
>
> NO DOUBT!!!!
>
> Excuse me??? First of all, who in the hell would want it to
> happened a second time, and mistake? COME ON WHAT KIND OF
> MISTAKE IS IT WHEN SOMEONE JUST LAYS THERE. do you really dig
> a chick just laying there while you put your tiny penis all
> up in her... I dont think so. So think again bastard
It is the person laying there like a log's mistake. I hate to be callous but some men are too naive to know/think about what you laying there like a log means, others consciously don't care, and still others will figure you're just a cold fish. Unless you say "no," or otherwise communicate your lack of consent, it simply isn't rape.
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Message 118057 (In Reply to Message 117920)
Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 10, 2003 07:12 PM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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trying to survive wrote:
>
> I disagree with the other posters .. for mine ..I would put
> it down to experience. "Mistake" or "concent" are a complete
> defence in rape and I dont think you will make it stick. Even
> if you can prove he had sex with you the defendent will just
> say you smiled sweetly right through the thing and was he
> supposed to be a mind reader ? I dont think you will get it
> past reasonable doubt. The defendent will in addition be very
> pissed off at you ...
>
> Tough Luck Mate I am sorry.... next time stick up for
> yourself ..
Well let me tell you - my defendent can be as pissed off as he wants - he also said I wanted it. He is sitting "ROTTING" in jail for the next 6 years and must register as a SO the rest of his life. I could care less if he is pissed off or not. And neither should ANY rape survivor!!!
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Message 118058 (In Reply to Message 118003)
Re: No - Sometimes can NOT be said
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 10, 2003 07:20 PM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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Look People -
In a ton of cases - you are in TOTAL fear and denial of the event happening. Some women don't realize it is happening until penatration. You cant say anything accept what you will think will work to survive.
In my case, by the time I realized what was happening (he drugged me) I could not do a thing to stop him. At that time I was still awake but focusing on how to control my motor skills: IE: Walking without falling - keeping my eyes focused and KNEW he was taking off my shirt. But could not say a thing.
If you have NEVER been through it - you have no CLUE what is going on in the survivors mind. If you say NO - if you don't and it happens anyway and your alive to talk about it - that is all that matters because whatever you did it worked.
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Message 118074 (In Reply to Message 117908)
Re: Where is the justice
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 11, 2003 01:31 AM | Also by x_anti
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???? ahh I was talking about campus police, if you read my post.
was not saying anything re the rapist, so what are you talking about?
anti
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Message 118090 (In Reply to Message 117905)
Re: Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_anti
on Oct 11, 2003 08:57 PM | Also by x_anti
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great advice, ty, anti
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Message 118131 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_TryingtoSurviv
on Oct 13, 2003 09:28 AM | Also by x_TryingtoSurviv
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I can understand you being p*issed at me and I forgive you for calling me a bastard. The point I am making is that you never gave the guy the oportunity to decide to stop or not. To send a guy to prison under those circumstances is not fair.
" Hey pal you got the wrong idea here !! Stop now !! " If you had said that much I would be all for the law nailing the guy. If he had attacked you at that point and you decided to buckle under superior force then I would think none the worse of you for giving in.
The Legal system is about keeping the peace and not a mechanism for retribution in all cases. If you were to report the matter and the cops were to front the guy and tell him that from your view point you were raped and caution him fully as to his actions being so close to criminal he was skating on the brink of disaster it might be the wake up he needs.
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Message 118139 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_TryingtoSurviv
on Oct 13, 2003 10:15 AM | Also by x_TryingtoSurviv
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Dear Survivor Forever,
I agree completely but this poster is not saying she was drugged. As to what you are saying about your case I think they call that " administering a drug to stupify " or something ( I do not know the law ) . No way would a failure to "say no" in a case like that qualify as "mistake" or "concent" . I am a man facing rape charges that I consider malicious and frivoulous. If it were me that spiked a drink I would plead guilty to spare the complainant the ordeal of the trial and feel that the time in prison was for the public good. Mea Culpa.
BUT When a woman leads a man on with asking for sex explicitly then changes her mind but wont "say no" with no external pressure other than some post fact perception of threat then alledges rape and wants a man locked away I think this is unfair. I am not saying this happened with Ashley !!! It happened to me.
Prison is hell and I wonder how many of you posters have been there except from the vicarious comfort of your armchairs.
If that guy spiked your drink and used the ensuing stupifaction to use you physically he is beyond contempt and six years in prison is six years where the community is safe from him . He may even wake up to himself and seek help. Both good outcomes.
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Message 118141 (In Reply to Message 117838)
Re: Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_Sisco
on Oct 13, 2003 10:30 AM | Also by x_Sisco
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Report the rape to the police. Whether or not it "sticks" is the district attorney's problem.
If you are granted a warrant, even if he is not taken to trial, he will have a criminal record with a charge of rape.
The next time he rapes someone - there will be a paper trail.
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Message 118156 (In Reply to Message 117799)
Re: Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_TryingtoSurviv
on Oct 13, 2003 12:20 PM | Also by x_TryingtoSurviv
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Hey sisco Hey Pancho .... guy has done nothing provably criminal well you can just go back to your wild west .. string him up anyhow .. he even looks like " the Kid " .. and you americans wonder why the rest of the planet think you are barbarians ?
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Message 118183 (In Reply to Message 118139)
Re: Ashley - Please Read
Posted by x_marta
on Oct 13, 2003 07:31 PM | Also by x_marta
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trying to survive wrote:
>
> Dear Survivor Forever,
>
> I agree completely but this poster is not saying she was
> drugged. As to what you are saying about your case I think
> they call that " administering a drug to stupify " or
> something ( I do not know the law ) . No way would a failure
> to "say no" in a case like that qualify as "mistake" or
> "concent" . I am a man facing rape charges that I consider
> malicious and frivoulous. If it were me that spiked a drink I
> would plead guilty to spare the complainant the ordeal of the
> trial and feel that the time in prison was for the public
> good. Mea Culpa.
You are correct. The definition of rape (in most states) includes overcoming someone's will by administering drugs.
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Message 118200 (In Reply to Message 118183)
Re: Marta & Trying to Survive
Posted by x_SurvivorForeve
on Oct 14, 2003 01:44 AM | Also by x_SurvivorForeve
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Actually, it is aggravated criminal sexual assault (8 counts on this winner). It is a class X felony. We got a guilty plea two days before the trial was to begin.
Survivor
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Thread
117799, x_Ashley, Oct 08, 2003 10:46 AM [Where is the justice]
117824, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 08, 2003 01:11 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117838, x_Sisco, Oct 08, 2003 05:05 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117903, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 09, 2003 01:01 AM [Re: Ashley]
117932, x_Ashley, Oct 09, 2003 09:38 AM [Survivor]
117904, Rejected
118141, x_Sisco, Oct 13, 2003 10:30 AM [Re: Ashley - Please Read]
117839, x_Sisco, Oct 08, 2003 05:06 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117828, x_Silverthorne, Oct 08, 2003 04:02 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117834, x_orolan, Oct 08, 2003 04:50 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117866, x_marta, Oct 08, 2003 09:40 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117874, x_orolan, Oct 08, 2003 10:50 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117867, x_Ashley, Oct 08, 2003 09:44 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117869, x_Steve, Oct 08, 2003 10:20 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117906, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 09, 2003 01:12 AM [Re: Silver]
117831, x_Lildrafire, Oct 08, 2003 04:39 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117891, x_anti, Oct 08, 2003 11:59 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117908, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 09, 2003 01:38 AM [Re: Where is the justice]
118074, x_anti, Oct 11, 2003 01:31 AM [Re: Where is the justice]
117836, x_Silverthorne, Oct 08, 2003 05:03 PM [How was he to know if you dont say no?]
117892, x_anti, Oct 09, 2003 12:00 AM [Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?]
118002, x_Silverthorne, Oct 10, 2003 03:11 AM [Re: How was he to know if you don...]
117967, x_Daphne, Oct 09, 2003 02:51 PM [Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?]
118001, x_Silverthorne, Oct 10, 2003 03:09 AM [Daphne - excuse me lady!]
117865, x_marta, Oct 08, 2003 09:35 PM [Re: Where is the justice]
117905, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 09, 2003 01:09 AM [Ashley - Please Read]
118090, x_anti, Oct 11, 2003 08:57 PM [Re: Ashley - Please Read]
117920, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 09, 2003 04:37 AM [Re: How was he to know if you dont sa...]
117931, x_Ashley, Oct 09, 2003 09:35 AM [Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?]
117983, x_Lildrafire, Oct 09, 2003 08:56 PM [Re: How was he to know if you dont say...]
118003, x_Silverthorne, Oct 10, 2003 03:14 AM [We need details - how it happend?...]
118058, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 10, 2003 07:20 PM [Re: No - Sometimes can NOT b...]
117984, x_marta, Oct 09, 2003 09:18 PM [Re: How was he to know if you dont say no?]
118017, x_Ashley, Oct 10, 2003 10:11 AM [Marta]
118038, x_marta, Oct 10, 2003 02:09 PM [Re: Marta]
118057, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 10, 2003 07:12 PM [Re: How was he to know if you dont...]
117947, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 09, 2003 12:13 PM [Re: Survivor]
117950, Rejected
117951, Rejected
117955, x_PVulcan, Oct 09, 2003 12:56 PM [Re: Survivor]
118004, x_Silverthorne, Oct 10, 2003 03:16 AM [Timeline???]
117970, x_Sisco, Oct 09, 2003 04:19 PM [Re: Survivor]
117993, x_jess, Oct 10, 2003 01:26 AM [Re: go to the police]
118005, x_Silverthorne, Oct 10, 2003 03:17 AM [Who did you tell?]
118131, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 13, 2003 09:28 AM [Re: Ashley - Please Read]
118139, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 13, 2003 10:15 AM [Re: Ashley - Please Read]
118183, x_marta, Oct 13, 2003 07:31 PM [Re: Ashley - Please Read]
118200, x_SurvivorForeve, Oct 14, 2003 01:44 AM [Re: Marta & Trying to Survive]
118156, x_TryingtoSurviv, Oct 13, 2003 12:20 PM [Re: Ashley - Please Read]
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