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Forum: Old Message Board
Thread (Discussion): Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts
Message 111989
Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jun 28, 2003 07:41 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Here is one that the 'antis' should pay attention to. I think the US courts is trying to tell them something.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aTpo1cBKxLXA&refer=us
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A convicted child sex offender can't be banned from city parks because he thought about having sexual contact with children, a U.S. appeals court ruled. The sex offender told his psychologist and self-help group that he had fantasies about children he observed playing at a city park in 2000 in Lafayette, Indiana. After his former probation officer was alerted, Lafayette officials banned the man from entering any city park, which includes the zoo and the golf course. The man, identified in court proceedings as John Doe, sued, and U.S. District Judge Allen Sharp ruled in favor of the city. The 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reversed in a 2-1 decision today, saying that while it finds Doe's fantasies ``deplorable,'' a government cannot punish someone for what he thinks. ``The idea that you could be punished for your thoughts seems to run really far from our view of our protected rights under the First Amendment,'' said Ken Falk, legal director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union, who represented Doe.
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Yeah to the Indiana Civil Liberties Union! At least someone is sticking up for people's freedom and the rampant mommyism that is ruining our legal system. You can't punish or convict someone on what they think. If that was the case there would be numerous anti's in jail for wanting to kill pedophiles.
And this is part of the difference between a child molester and a pedophile or a rapist and a male. Being attracted (while distasteful to some) to minor is not a crime. Fantasizing about minors is not a crime. Acting on those desires would be a crime.
I'm glad justice was served and I hope he has many pleasant days in the park not molesting anyone.
I would hope the dim-witted psychologist and probation officer would be punished.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 111990 (In Reply to Message 111989)
About Time
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Jun 28, 2003 08:14 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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Wow! What a great case. I think that settles that argument. I only hope the city appeals so the Supreme Court can rule the same way.
Silverthorne
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Message 111991 (In Reply to Message 111989)
Re: Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts
Posted by x_simon
on Jun 28, 2003 08:57 PM | Also by x_simon
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Here is the link from the Lafayette paper regarding this decision:
http://www.lafayettejc.com/news20030628/200306270local_news1056776185.shtml
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Message 111993 (In Reply to Message 111990)
I agree
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jun 28, 2003 11:16 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Or perhaps it will send a clear enough signal that others won't attempt it, knowing that at a minimum the ACLU will challenge it.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 111994 (In Reply to Message 111990)
Re: About Time
Posted by x_Casey
on Jun 28, 2003 11:22 PM | Also by x_Casey
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I think thats good. Though I wonder why the other judge did not vote to over-rule. Because otherwise he would be saying "it's ok to punish someone for what they think" or I guess even what they say. Sounds alot like our eastern neighbors. If I say "I wish you were dead." In no way does that mean I am gonna kill someone.
I do believe that theripist have to report anything they think would create repeat offenses. Which in of itself is bad, because these guys trust their groups to understand them and then they are turned on by the only people that will listen to their thoughts. If the guy gave a name and place, or said "I think I will molest tomorrow." That would be another story and they could have the P.O. keeping a better eye on him. That is what they are paid to do.
I do however think, if the guy has these thoughts everytime he goes to the park, he needs to go other places, if he cannot control them. How far does he go with these thoughts? I know they can just pop into your head, but does he play them out in his mind while he sits on the bench? Or does he attempt to switch his thoughts in another direction. Playing thoughts out in a place like the park, or anywhere around children in dangerous. It makes it too real. Playing them out at home, if he has to play them out, is alot safer. He could end up snatching up a kid, and then this whole ordeal will go back to court and those judges will no longer vote in the favor of sexual offenders.
Some pedos may be able to control themselfs, but not everyone has the same life. And some don't. And proudly believe that sex with a child is ok. That I strongly do not believe in. There is no logic in a sexual relationship with a juvenile, it does not play out to any positive end. Once the juvenile gets older the molester or pedo no longer has any intrest in them sexually and looks for someone else. And this is from the words of pedos/boylovers I have chatted with.
What void are you trying to fill? I'll tell you what really made me do my crime, it was being able to get sexually excited from affection. This made me combine sex and love into one pot. So sometimes, even now, when I am shown affection my body can react sexually. Not that I react that way, but I have left a room, and got very angry with myself over it. Now I understand it, as where I didn't before. If you go thru your teen years with a particular belief or habit, then it is usually there to stay after you reach adulthood. As my life moves on that in me will diminish. One do to age, but two because I am recieving the affection I want from other healthy sources.
Healthy? Yes, Healthy. Because again if you cannot have a non-sexual relationship with anyone, including children, and feel loved, then you need to re-think. And there are plenty of ehem "normal" people out there that cannot have non-sexual relationships, or they think they are not loved. So alot of people need to do alot of thinking. =P
I love kids. And there is nothing saying you can't either, but "sex" isn't love. Period. It is the way we reproduce.
I have trouble believeing anyone could read all this and go "well he's right, I'll change." I sure wouldn't have ever had you told me this a few years back. I would have just thought you were such an idiot. lol But when I started searching for more, is when certian words people would write would hit home and eventually I came to the conclusions on certain matters I have today. But when my mind starts going, I just write it out, so the usually can go into another chapter, or even book. Maybe there is someone reading the boards looking for a few words I said in here.
Peace,
Casey
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Message 112003 (In Reply to Message 111994)
Good and bad
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jun 29, 2003 10:29 AM | Also by x_HPierce
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Casey I agree with some of your points about thought crimes. There are other aspects of your post I'm not so sure I agree with.
Casey says:
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I do however think, if the guy has these thoughts everytime he goes to the park, he needs to go other places, if he cannot control them. How far does he go with these thoughts? I know they can just pop into your head, but does he play them out in his mind while he sits on the bench? Or does he attempt to switch his thoughts in another direction. Playing thoughts out in a place like the park, or anywhere around children in dangerous. It makes it too real.
>>>
Pedophiles think exactly the same way that heterosexual think, and the way homosexuals think. I agree that if he has had a problem allowing himself to be involved with minors then as you said he should really be going other places. Just as any male who has a history of not taking "No" for an answer shouldn't be putting himself in situations such as going to strip clubs. The part I want to get across is pedosexuals do not have uncontrollable urges. We don't struggle with wanting to molest a child anymore than a man struggles with the notion of 'taking' a pretty woman. It is more about respect than it is control. Those with little to no respect for others will be more likely to commit a sexual offense. Having no respect for others can be present in every orientation, do you agree? The notion that pedosexuals are drooling monsters whose every moment is tortured by 'should I molest her or not', is best left for Oprah and the National Inquirer. Makes a great story or ratings but not factual.
Casey says:
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And some don't. And proudly believe that sex with a child is ok. That I strongly do not believe in. There is no logic in a sexual relationship with a juvenile, it does not play out to any positive end. Once the juvenile gets older the molester or pedo no longer has any intrest in them sexually and looks for someone else. And this is from the words of pedos/boylovers I have chatted with.
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I don't think so, Casey. This sounds something straight out of therapy or a child saver site. It is perfectly normal to have relationships with minors. When consensual, there are exactly the same possibilities of a positive or negative end as any adult relationship. Your comments about once a minor gets older the molester moves on would be correct. But a molester isn't always a pedosexual nor is that as you say a healthy relationship. What you elected not to tell the readers is that the majority of pedosexuals are not child molesters.
So you're trying to tell me it isn't logical,right or healthy for pedosexuals to want CONSENSUAL relationships based simply on how sex offenders(child molesters) treat children? Now tell me how that is any different than the men or womean that goes to bars every Saturday night and picks a new partner to go home with? Tell about how women who use men to get what they want in life is a healthy relationship with a positive end? So using the logic you presented as reasons that adult/minor relationships are unhealthy, you would have to arrive at the same conclusion about adults. Ahhh but you know in reality that the majority don't live that 'one night stand' lifestyle. Sorry that is two-faced.
What you aren't telling the folks is those ASPECTS ARE PRESENT IN EVERY ORIENTATION. The fact in itself doesn't mean everyone in that orientation behaves that way or that even a majority do. You apparently haven't talked to many boy lovers or girl lovers or you would have found that the majority of pedosexuals, just like the majority of homosexuals and heterosexuals desire a lasting relationship and in fact many have gone on to marry their child lover and remain faithful to them all through life. Take your statement to a pedosexual message board and watch the reaction you will receive. If you think I'm kiding I'll be happy to supply the URL for both the boylovers and girllovers message board and you can try that line with them. Talking to child molesters about how pedosexuals behave make as much sense as talking to rapists to understand how the average male should date.
The other aspect you left out is one that should be obvious but perhaps it is only to pedosexuals is girls and boys as they begin to grow up tend to 'play the field', to a large degree. It is much more likely for a girl who has had a relationship with an adult male, to at some point ditch him in favor of someone new she has met than it is for the adult to have ditched her. Girls and boys will end the relationship more often than the pedosexual will. Again I invite you to talk to pedosexuals not sex offenders on their message board and see what experience has shown.
You painted an unreal world because you mixed child molesters (who are the minority) with responsible pedosexuals (who are the majority). It is neither factual nor representative of the average pedosexual lifestyle or their relationships.
Casey says:
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I love kids. And there is nothing saying you can't either, but "sex" isn't love. Period. It is the way we reproduce.
>>>
That is a too simplistic, Casey, and one I'd hope most would have a hard time swallowing. Sex isn't love but it is an integral part of love. It can be inclusive or exclusive. Sex outside of love is purely physical but sex is a part of love if you have feelings for the other person. Perhaps you haven’t heard the phrase “Make love to me”? Most people associate sexual intimacy as a very real part of love and their relationship.
I love kids too. Guess what? kids love too and are sexual human beings also.
I'm glad whatever help you received has made it possible for you to not to reoffend. You are certainly entitled to your views but I also have an obligation to point out as I have above where your views don’t meet the real world.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112018 (In Reply to Message 111989)
Re: Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts
Posted by x_CJ
on Jun 30, 2003 12:09 PM | Also by x_CJ
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HP,
While I do find your fascination with the sexuality of children repugnant, it is beyond me how anyone can believe that a person can be convicted of a crime for THINKING unacceptable thoughts! Is there anyone who hasn't ever had a fight with a neighbor, co-worker, or other acquaintance who has not had a momentary fantasy about blowing his/her head off with a shotgun (or other murderous action)? Should we be convicted of murder just because we thought about it? The Constitution in this country says we must DO something before we can be punished. I vaguely remember something like, "I disagree with what you say, but shall defend to the death your right to say it!" (In this case, I disagree with that you think, but will defend until the death your right to think it!)
I read the citation posted by Simon and noted something that seems to have been overlooked. John Doe had the fantasy, removed himself from the presence of the children in the park, went to his therapist, and discussed/worked through the episode. Personally, I find that a pretty laudable behavior! Without knowing the details of his prior conviction, one could assume that he had performed an illegal sexual act with a child at an earlier time . . . to be able to realize another act might be in the process of triggering, remove himself, and seek professional help BEFORE re-offending says to me that this offender may truly be one of the rehabilitated ones!
With this kind of continuing persecution, why should any offender seek help to work through troubling thoughts BEFORE anyone is injured? Given the scenario in the newspaper article, the offender would be better off to keep such troubling thoughts to himself and risk re-offending rather than seeking support to NOT re-offend. The logic seems contrary to what those who feel the urgent need "to protect children" seem to be demanding.
Another example of the hysteria continuing and the urgent need for healing for EVERYONE in these situations. Fear breeds fear; hatred breed hatred; hysteria breeds hysteria.
CJ
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Message 112020 (In Reply to Message 112003)
Re: Good and bad
Posted by x_Casey
on Jun 30, 2003 01:59 PM | Also by x_Casey
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""Pedophiles think exactly the same way that heterosexual think, and the way homosexuals think. I agree that if he has had a problem allowing himself to be involved with minors then as you said he should really be going other places. Just as any male who has a history of not taking "No" for an answer shouldn't be putting himself in situations such as going to strip clubs. The part I want to get across is pedosexuals do not have uncontrollable urges. We don't struggle with wanting to molest a child anymore than a man struggles with the notion of 'taking' a pretty woman. It is more about respect than it is control. Those with little to no respect for others will be more likely to commit a sexual offense. Having no respect for others can be present in every orientation, do you agree? The notion that pedosexuals are drooling monsters whose every moment is tortured by 'should I molest her or not', is best left for Oprah and the National Inquirer. Makes a great story or ratings but not factual.""
I was merely saying if he goes to the park, and has thoughts and plays them out then he don't need to go. I did not exclude any other orientation, but we were not talking about other orientations. I agree it's the same for anyone.
""I don't think so, Casey. This sounds something straight out of therapy or a child saver site. It is perfectly normal to have relationships with minors. When consensual, there are exactly the same possibilities of a positive or negative end as any adult relationship. Your comments about once a minor gets older the molester moves on would be correct. But a molester isn't always a pedosexual nor is that as you say a healthy relationship. What you elected not to tell the readers is that the majority of pedosexuals are not child molesters.""
You still have sexual contact with a minor, and that is illegal and unmoral. I understand your state of mind, because I was there, but it is incorrect. There is no such thing as a healthy "sexual" relationship with a minor. Not saying you can't have really great freindships with a minor, but the sex part is "YOU" being self-ish. But I cannot change your mind about it, no one could mine.
""So you're trying to tell me it isn't logical,right or healthy for pedosexuals to want CONSENSUAL relationships based simply on how sex offenders(child molesters) treat children? Now tell me how that is any different than the men or womean that goes to bars every Saturday night and picks a new partner to go home with? Tell about how women who use men to get what they want in life is a healthy relationship with a positive end? So using the logic you presented as reasons that adult/minor relationships are unhealthy, you would have to arrive at the same conclusion about adults. Ahhh but you know in reality that the majority don't live that 'one night stand' lifestyle. Sorry that is two-faced.""
Child molesters are different, I didn't mean to imply you were one and the same. But your really not far from it. If you were arrested, they would charge you as a child molester, not a "Proud Pedosexual" That's fact. And I am not saying adult sex is any more moral when they sleep around. But adults have sexual drives, children do not. And I have been around a lot of kids H. I know what I am talking about. I know how children usually come around to any kind of wanting to do something sexual. It's always curiosity. After that you and all the other pedos are dropping hints that you want to have sex, and they will usually do it, to make you happy because they love you. Are you gonna prey on that? SEX is not LOVE. There are plenty of people unable to have sex H, and they are married and happy. Tell me.. how that can possibly be? If you cannot have a non-sexual relationship, then you need to do alot of thinking.
""What you aren't telling the folks is those ASPECTS ARE PRESENT IN EVERY ORIENTATION. The fact in itself doesn't mean everyone in that orientation behaves that way or that even a majority do. You apparently haven't talked to many boy lovers or girl lovers or you would have found that the majority of pedosexuals, just like the majority of homosexuals and heterosexuals desire a lasting relationship and in fact many have gone on to marry their child lover and remain faithful to them all through life. Take your statement to a pedosexual message board and watch the reaction you will receive. If you think I'm kiding I'll be happy to supply the URL for both the boylovers and girllovers message board and you can try that line with them. Talking to child molesters about how pedosexuals behave make as much sense as talking to rapists to understand how the average male should date.""
No that's ok. I have been apart of 3 message boards that were all BOYLOVE msg boards. I know exactly what is said, and how people think. I respected the ones that never touched anyone. They said they just couldn't bring themselfs to do it. Others were very carefree about how they had this many boys and that many this. I had a guy trying to get closer to me.. and here I am 21 at the time... I just look young. Sad. I was trying to have a regular conversation and the guy was trying to start a relationship. "Let me send you some energy." he says. So I DO KNOW what I am talking about. And why can't you wait until the child turns 18? If it's really love then once they are 18 then you can marry and legally have sex. No comment?
""The other aspect you left out is one that should be obvious but perhaps it is only to pedosexuals is girls and boys as they begin to grow up tend to 'play the field', to a large degree. It is much more likely for a girl who has had a relationship with an adult male, to at some point ditch him in favor of someone new she has met than it is for the adult to have ditched her. Girls and boys will end the relationship more often than the pedosexual will. Again I invite you to talk to pedosexuals not sex offenders on their message board and see what experience has shown.""
Play the feild? It's more like boys are not gay and they want to have girlfriends. BY all means H, have friendships with these boys, god knows some of them desperately need it, but having sex with them is only gonna further confused there lifes. Why can't you see that? Once they are 18 and if they want to have sex, hey whatever you want. But... why can't you wait?
""You painted an unreal world because you mixed child molesters (who are the minority) with responsible pedosexuals (who are the majority). It is neither factual nor representative of the average pedosexual lifestyle or their relationships.""
Responsible pedos, do not have sex with kids.
""That is a too simplistic, Casey, and one I'd hope most would have a hard time swallowing. Sex isn't love but it is an integral part of love. It can be inclusive or exclusive. Sex outside of love is purely physical but sex is a part of love if you have feelings for the other person. Perhaps you haven’t heard the phrase “Make love to me”? Most people associate sexual intimacy as a very real part of love and their relationship.""
And that is why you are having sex with kids H. Because you have that "days of our lives" sex scene in your head. As most humans do. LOVE is just there. Sex is reproduction. Seperated the two, you will be alot happier.
""I love kids too. Guess what? kids love too and are sexual human beings also.""
Yes, kids do love. And usually more purely than adults, because they are not judgemental. But, they are not sexual until puberty sets in. And then, they don't even know whom they are for years to come. Guide them, and stop having sex with them.
""I'm glad whatever help you received has made it possible for you to not to reoffend. You are certainly entitled to your views but I also have an obligation to point out as I have above where your views don’t meet the real world.""
Real World? The one you have created. It does not make it right. Same for any other person and their own reality. Your life, but why drag others into it? I don't think you understand the confusion you can cause in a child from something like this. Like I said... guide them, let them grow into an adult and then if they decide they want to have sex with you that's another story.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112025 (In Reply to Message 112018)
Re: Good and bad
Posted by x_Sisco
on Jun 30, 2003 03:41 PM | Also by x_Sisco
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I support your position.
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Message 112030 (In Reply to Message 112018)
Re: Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jun 30, 2003 09:49 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Gee CJ.
CJ says:
>>>>
While I do find your fascination with the sexuality of children repugnant.......
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I don't really have a facination with the child sexuality. I am however attracted to minors and find them sexy in the same balanced way that many adults including myself find other adults sexy. The fact that I'm forever correcting many of you people's myths about adult/minor relationships is only an indication that I won't stand for lies and myths being spread.
The rest of what you said I agree with. We should never be punished or denied freedoms simply because of what we think. I believe you gave some good examples.
And yes the reaction of the therapist and P.O. undermines the programs requirements for people confess or state what they are feeling. I can't picture too many people giving any answer except what the therapist wants to hear from this point on. He/she has ruined what little credibility they ever possessed.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112034 (In Reply to Message 112020)
Not really, Casey
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jun 30, 2003 11:18 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Casey says:
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You still have sexual contact with a minor, and that is illegal and unmoral. I understand your state of mind, because I was there, but it is incorrect.
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It is illegal and it maybe immoral but one is a society law and the other is a religious/sociological view. Neither reflect 'what is good or bad', only what society wants as good and bad. Perhaps you remember from history, prohibition? Booze was illegal and immoral. What finally happened? People came to their senses and prohibition was struck down. Alcohol in itself isn’t immoral or illegal anymore. There is great damage a person can do if they drink too much or allow it to run their life, but responsible people know better. The same is true of adult/minor relationships. You can try to tell me they are illegal and immoral and I will tell you the laws need to change, as do the uneducated, immature attitudes towards it. I’ve seen numerous adult/minor relationships flourish with very positive endings. I’ve had many other relationships told to me by people I trust. They had no reason to embellish the story to paint a happy ending.
You were never where I am. I’ve never been in your state of mind. I have never committed a sexual offense. That is the big difference in our state of minds. Yes what you did was illegal. I don’t know your story so I won’t comment if it was correct or not.
Casey says:
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There is no such thing as a healthy "sexual" relationship with a minor.
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Hmm that’s odd, They were always healthy and happy for the last hundred thousand years or so until about 75 years ago. No, what is happened is SOCIETY WON’T ALLOW PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN HEALTHY SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH A MINOR. It happens all around them, has since the beginning of man, but society believes anything that is told them loud enough and often enough. I know for a fact that there are healthy relationships with minors.
Casey says:
>>>
But adults have sexual drives, children do not
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That is 100% incorrect. Children are sexual beings and everyone to some degree is sexual from birth. I’ve noticed a lot of 10 year old girls that have raging hormones. I could tell you about boys and girls that begin their sexual exploration at an even earlier age. I’m a father and I have raised children of my own so I too know quite a bit about children and watched them grow up. That being said, I’ve also mentioned that it should be child that decides when they are ready for sexual intimacy. Kids need to be kids as long as they desire. No one should be introducing sexual intimacy until it is the child that is doing the initiating and expresses a desire. Maybe that is another reason I don’t find girls younger than about 10 sexual. They usually aren’t ready or looking for sex before that age. Responsible pedosexuals understand this just as adults understand when the one they love isn’t ready yet. Most pedosexuals do not endorse making the child uncomfortable and allow the child to control the pace of the relationship. Again you confuse a molester who coerces, or persuades a child into doing what they want (selfish) compared to what RESPONSIBLE pedosexual would do. This should be obvious to you.
Casey says:
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Play the feild? It's more like boys are not gay and they want to have girlfriends. BY all means H, have friendships with these boys, god knows some of them desperately need it, but having sex with them is only gonna further confused there lifes.
>>>
Huh? Number one I’m a girl lover. I’m not gay. Number two, boys want to get in girl’s pants and also have them be their girlfriends. Girls want sex but don’t want to come across as being easy but they want it just like the boys do. That is why there is so much teen sex. Sex in itself will never mess up a minor’s life if they wanted the sex and consented to it. It doesn’t mess them up when they have it with their teen boyfriends/girlfriends (we are all proof of that) and unless you have some scientific data that can show that while teens in sexual relationships with peers suffer no ill effects, those who engage with adults do because what? The age of the penis? Come on! I’ve already stated that in a consensual relationship, there IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE POTENTIAL OUTCOME OF THE RELATIONSHIP REGARDLESS OF EITHER PARTNERS AGE. You know it, everyone knows it.. they just can’t accept it. Anything else doesn’t even make sense. I’ve seen numerous relationships with no messed up teens or children.
Casey says:
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And that is why you are having sex with kids H. Because you have that "days of our lives" sex scene in your head. As most humans do. LOVE is just there. Sex is reproduction. Seperated the two, you will be alot happier.
>>>
Well no, I’ve never had sex with a child or perhaps you have forgot that. Sex is more that reproduction. I don’t know what shrink has brainwashed you, but it is a very real and important facet in most people’s lives. It is also pleasurable, you forgot that. People like sex, Casey. If they didn’t you sure wouldn’t hear so much about in our music, see it in our TV and movies. Separate the two? Well men are kind of like that anyway. I can fantasize about having sex with a lovely tween girl but my wife says someone she didn’t have feelings for could never arouse her. I think society is pushing for less separation and more sex should be an extension of love. But I’ll try your approach next time I’m horny. “Honey, no foreplay tonight….. I’m suppose to separate love from sex….What didn’t you hear? Sex has nothing to do with love….. So baby, make SEX to me!. I think I know where I’d be sleeping. Can I ask if this idea of sex and love being separate is something you picked up from Sunday school or your S.O. counseling? At any rate I can enjoy sex without love (I remember those occasions before being married), but sex is much more fulfilling when it is with someone you care for. So again I say I don’t put credence in this notion. I’d bet most other non-sexually repressed moralistic who aren’t living in denial, wouldn’t either.
Casey ends with:
>>>
Real World? The one you have created. It does not make it right. Same for any other person and their own reality.
>>>
The world I refer to is the one I see all around me. The one made up of mostly good people and some nasty ones. It’s the one I see, not the one I’m led to believe in because someone on CNN said so, or Oprah said so. I have a mind I can read, and I can draw my own conclusions as well as validate them with others. It’s the one I’ve come to recognize without the blinders and self-denial you are under. I see the good and I see the bad. I know what is right and what is wrong. Likewise I know what should be allowed and what is perpetrated as the truth is often the lies society wants us to believe. If the laws allowed me I would simply be friends and lover of a girl until she WAS ready for something more. If that was 18.. so be it.. if it was 8 so be it. Her body and mind isn’t set to the “Eighteen year old “ rule imposed for no purpose except for morality sake.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112035 (In Reply to Message 112025)
I'm glad you support my postion.
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jun 30, 2003 11:22 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Thanks *cough*.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112054 (In Reply to Message 112034)
Re: Not really, Casey
Posted by x_Casey
on Jul 01, 2003 03:42 AM | Also by x_Casey
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What's funny is you sound like you have an addiction. You talk the same way anyone does when addicted to something. It is not I, but you whom refuse to see the truth. Unfortunately, until someone falls way down, they usally do not see what they are doing.
My conclusions are my own. I hate shrinks, and I follow no religions, no Oprah or CNN or JOhn walsh influenced my decisions. I followed my heart.
What you do in your own mind, home, with yourself is your own buisness H. And I hope you never touch a girl. The second you do you are gonna get ripped apart, and seeing all the stories and the laws that come across this place and on the news, you were informed. And you have been informed well. I was 17 when I commited my crime. It was consensual, but that didn't make it right. I was not informed. I am now. And you haveing been a father... I can't imagine why you cannot see.
Your long-winded when you write your responses, which only means your constantly trying to convience yourself that your right. You sound like a teenager explaining sex, "It feels good."
Hey look, do what ya want. But I would suggest you take a time-out and look for the answers from whatever source you want. Reach deep down inside yourself and really think about where you are, and where you are heading.
And btw morals are not directly derived from religion. I have no religion, but I still have morals. Which again come from my heart.
Peace,
Casey
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Message 112063 (In Reply to Message 112054)
thanks Casey
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jul 01, 2003 11:22 AM | Also by x_HPierce
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I have an addiction? To what, Casey? You confuse a passion for spreading the truth and eliminating myths like you have spread, with addiction. You see things as black and white. You are unable to see how life truely unfolds. You think consensual sex with minors is wrong and immoral. Fine. I'm just pointing out that your notion that minors are always victimized or never reach happy endings is lame and you seriously need to understand that NOT all relationships are indictive of the one you were in. You fail to apply the same logic to one group (adults) as you do another (minors) and you come off as grossly uninformed.
I'm long winded? I call it being detailed and complete. I take your childish remarks about me justifying my view as proof you have NO facts to back your own. Why is it whenever a pedosexual states their view they are justifying it. Yet when you were up on your soapbox you weren't? And just so you know.. you are the one with the view that believes it is immoral and should be illegal. What I belive is biologically natural and needs no justification. However, your laws and morals are all based on justification. Ponder that one awhile.
Casey says:
>>>
You sound like a teenager explaining sex, "It feels good."
>>>
Sex does feel good. But like everything else in life it needs moderation and the person needs to understand when it is appropriate and when its not. You on the other hand have been on the sh*t end of the offender's stick. You strike me as someone who fears sex and has completely alienated yourself from the pleasure it does bring. Yes it is for procreation, but it is much more than that. You live in denial.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112066 (In Reply to Message 112063)
--_--
Posted by x_Casey
on Jul 01, 2003 12:37 PM | Also by x_Casey
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Your to deep in your human reality for you to understand. I know where I am at H. My true self is in charge now, not my human reality, not my private parts.
Just know that your taking out all your issues on any girl you choose to have a "consensual" relationship with. And then your creating issues for them. *Hats off to you*
Peace,
Casey
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Message 112084 (In Reply to Message 112066)
Have to see both sides
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jul 01, 2003 03:19 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Casey says:
>>>
Just know that your taking out all your issues on any girl you choose to have a "consensual" relationship with. And then your creating issues for them. *Hats off to you*
>>>
Can I ask in a polite way what you feel these issues are? Put the fact that it is illegal to the side. I ask that because I think that is the only issue there is. Without it being illegal there isn't anything I'd be taking to the relationship that doesn't get brought to any peer relationship involving sex.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112092 (In Reply to Message 112084)
Re: Have to see both sides
Posted by x_Casey
on Jul 01, 2003 06:31 PM | Also by x_Casey
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""Can I ask in a polite way what you feel these issues are? Put the fact that it is illegal to the side. I ask that because I think that is the only issue there is. Without it being illegal there isn't anything I'd be taking to the relationship that doesn't get brought to any peer relationship involving sex.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)""
First and foremost is the fact that you go into this "relationship" with alot more knowledge then the girl does. At least with another peer, they are both just as inexpierenced as the other one. It would be awkward, and weird, and for anyone whoms sexual drive hasn't started, it would be fuled by curiousity.
Society teaches that (love = sex) so IMHO this is why kids are even curious about sex in the first place. You watch two people on "Days of Our Lives" in a bed, ontop of each other, and they are naked, and they say to each other "I love you." To a child lacking affection they remember that. Clearly. And they will start making it apart of their lives. "If someone does that to me, it means they REALLY love me." This causes confusion for their future relationships with peers.
By a girl learning this type of stuff from you it would be basically the same outcome. She will look back at her childhood and think "While my friends were outside playing and hanging out, I was having sex with this older guy." She could very well come to hate herself, believing it was her fault, because you had never forced her to have sex. And girls are even more emotionally unstable then guys, and because of society sex is usually very special to them, as where with guys we are taught, the more scores the merrier.
If you look at a battered woman, she keeps going back truly believing that the guy loves her, and it was her fault he beat her. Unconditional love. Women usually hang onto this much better then men through life. And all children have it, because they have not been taught that there is a limit to love. So a child will actually want to have sex, one to make you happy, or because it makes them FEEL loved. Of course they will actually initiate the sexual contact as well on occasion. So that only helps to make people believe that "they wanted it, I didn't ask or force them."
Something else to think about is humans can adapt. ANd that basically sums up all the problems we have in society. People will adapt when one thing dosen't seem to work. Children are no different. "If mom and dad are not paying attention to me for being good, then I will misbehave to get it." Adapting. We all do it, and we may not even notice the change. If a child has an "adult friend" they will probably feel more loved then they were before that, so adapting to the sex is worth it to them.
The only reason childen and even teenagers will have so much sex is because they feel unloved in some capacity. By you or any other adult having a sexual relationship with them we further help to plant into their heads that sex is love. All most guys want anymore is to "Do it." As where females are looking for more but give in, because its some of the only time they can get any attention.
If sex was love, if without having sex, we could not love, then we would be having sex with friends, parents, grandparents, the dog (no comment) and anything else we loved.
Peace,
Casey
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Message 112106 (In Reply to Message 111989)
Not a danger?
Posted by x_Silverthorne
on Jul 01, 2003 09:46 PM | Also by x_Silverthorne
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FROM THE ARTICLE:
"Doe, convicted of child molesting 10 years before this incident and in therapy, admitted to fantasizing about the children after watching them for 15 to 30 minutes. He left the park and reported the incident to his psychologist without taking any action toward the children.
He also shared the incident during a group therapy session. After that, Doe's former probation officer received an anonymous tip about the incident. The probation officer told Lafayette Police Department officials about it and they notified Vicki Mayes, superintendent of Lafayette parks, and city attorney Eric Burns."
It seems to me he is in therapy, hasn't reoffended in 10 years, is reporting sexual thoughts to his doctor as he is supposed to. What is he doing wrong he left the park when he had the thoughts!!!! This is EXACTLY what he is supposed to do.
Sounds like someone in group (another sex offender) who doesn't like him "finked" on him. To be honest I'd sue the group, the doctor and the patient (who told) for turning over confidential treatment records.
A law like this is no different then requiring a convicted rapist to stay away from women?
Silverthorne
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Message 112110 (In Reply to Message 112092)
Thanks for the reply
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jul 01, 2003 11:56 PM | Also by x_HPierce
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Casey says:
>>>
First and foremost is the fact that you go into this "relationship" with alot more knowledge then the girl does. At least with another peer, they are both just as inexpierenced as the other one. It would be awkward, and weird, and for anyone whoms sexual drive hasn't started, it would be fuled by curiousity.
>>>
You consider knowledge an issue? I would agree with you if it was a NON-consensual relationship and I'm using my experience to coerce her to have sex, that is one thing. However, you and I know that isn't the type of relationship we are talking about.
But ok.. lets take your comments and go from there. Obviously you are aware there are teens that much more experienced than other teens. In fact there are teens sexually more experienced than many adults. Would you say it is a healtier for a teen girl to get involved with a 'dreamy' classmate who has quickly learned that girls his age are easy if you give them a few lines and promises? Top that off he and she aren't really sure they understand safe sex (since the moralists won't allow sex ed in school).
Now consider a 45 year-old man and 15 year old girl. Your issue is he is more knowledgeable. Ok, she may at first feel inadaquate but an experienced lover won't be giggling at her questions etc. He/she will try to make her feel at ease. The adult is in a better position to delay having sex if he/she feels the teen is rushing things or for the wrong reasons. Who better than an adult to squelch misconceptions of poor birth control and/or safe sex.
So I'm left feeling the adult/minor relationship has more to offer in regards to a healthy, happy relationship that includes sex than maybe possible with a peer.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112111 (In Reply to Message 112106)
I agree
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jul 02, 2003 12:02 AM | Also by x_HPierce
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I think the article said that the therapist reported it to the SO's probation officer. That is why I said the therapist should be talked to/removed from that line of work etc. He/She has ruined whatever small credibility they had with the offenders.
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Message 112152 (In Reply to Message 112110)
?? adult/minor relationships
Posted by x_Katie
on Jul 03, 2003 02:02 AM | Also by x_Katie
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First off I want to state that I am not against adult minor relationships. I do believe in marriage! If they love let them marry. Which society doesn't like either. I think 'all' love/sex relationships should be in marriage. But I also understand that it is not this way in world we live in.
My question is, don't you think that without the laws to seprerate child from adult that there would be more adults drawn to children? These adults may not have the careful, gentle, respectful thoughts and ways you do. I think more children would be hurt because there would not be any laws to keep the "bad" people away from them.
Your thoughts...
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Message 112165 (In Reply to Message 112152)
We already have laws
Posted by x_HPierce
on Jul 03, 2003 11:00 AM | Also by x_HPierce
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katie asks:
>>>
My question is, don't you think that without the laws to seprerate child from adult that there would be more adults drawn to children? These adults may not have the careful, gentle, respectful thoughts and ways you do. I think more children would be hurt because there would not be any laws to keep the "bad" people away from them.
>>>
No I don't. If we removed the age of consent laws children would still be protected under adult laws such as RAPE, sexual assault, sexual harrassment just to name a few. People sometimes think the elimination of the AOC would create an open season on kids. That simply isn't the case. The outcome would be that healthy relationships would be allowed where both partners are happy, and freely consent. Those people who would force themselves on children would still be dealt with by laws that adequately protect adults today. No longer would you have people victimized by law simply because one partner was too young. These people aren't victims (except once LE and social service get through with them). It would take away the incentive of those who would falsely accuse others of touching them when they were 15 years old even though they had consented to it back then. Cases in court would be based on actual damage done to the individual not the wrongly perceived notion that any underage intamicy is wrong. Convict those that hurt, violate or coerce others... Don't victimize innocent people who are in relationships or freely consent.
It properly puts the burden of raising the child back on the parents where it belongs. It takes government out of raising the children by laws that don't protect a child anymore than the laws that protect adults.
If a sex offender wants to molest a child, they will do so no matter if the law they break is child molestation or rape. They will do it no matter what. It does make a difference to those in relationships where society and the law dictate morals in the form of laws.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 112178 (In Reply to Message 112152)
Re: ?? adult/minor relationships
Posted by x_Casey
on Jul 03, 2003 04:21 PM | Also by x_Casey
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If society would do a 360 we would not need laws. But that is wishful thinking.
Yes without the threat of the laws there would be more. And it is important for every parent to sit there kids down, espically the boys, and explain to them about the sex offender stuff when they are at the age for the sex talk. Because if your son goes out and does a 14 year old at 17, then he's a sex offender. If you don't sit down and have that talk with him, you can just blame yourself. If you do and he still does, then you can at least say "I told ya so." =P
Peace,
Casey
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Message 112185 (In Reply to Message 112178)
Re: ?? adult/minor relationships
Posted by x_anti
on Jul 03, 2003 06:31 PM | Also by x_anti
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casey, ohh how sic* you really really are, or are you just trying to get attention?
seriously now though, no laws? wow, as much as I esp dont appreciate some of our laws, and just not re pedos, or so, all different things, I sure know what we would be like w/ NO laws, esp w/out laws on childrens issues, as so, pedophiles, molesters, etc.
there has to be more stronger, harder laws as it is now , we have come along way, le is getting tired of our children being hurt, judges are tired of seeing repeat offenders in court.
society, will not tolerate you all anymore.
anti
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Message 139978 (In Reply to Message 112185)
Posted by paulina831
on Sep 23, 2004 08:17 AM | Also by paulina831
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 21 - 29,
State: Texas,
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Im 18 yrs old and i live with my parents, an older brother (19), and my younger sister(14) . we've all been pretty good kids. You know my parents have never had a call from school pretty good grades, all of us. Recently though we've been having problems with my younger sister. A couple of months ai found out one of my brothers friends(21) (exfriend) has been trying to date her I felt the responsibility to tell my parents. After that we all tried to help her understand it wasn't right for her to date him. We went to a couple of crisis I even went to talk to his parents and they understood our concern. Then she promised it would stop and that it wouldn't happen again, but i just found out she is still "dating" him. Is there anything we can do legally to stop this? I mean is there any laws out there to keep him away from her? I'm not sure, and I really don't think there has been any sexual relations between them. Please help with any info.
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Thread
111989, x_HPierce, Jun 28, 2003 07:41 PM [Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts]
111990, x_Silverthorne, Jun 28, 2003 08:14 PM [About Time]
111993, x_HPierce, Jun 28, 2003 11:16 PM [I agree]
111994, x_Casey, Jun 28, 2003 11:22 PM [Re: About Time]
112003, x_HPierce, Jun 29, 2003 10:29 AM [Good and bad]
112020, x_Casey, Jun 30, 2003 01:59 PM [Re: Good and bad]
112034, x_HPierce, Jun 30, 2003 11:18 PM [Not really, Casey]
112054, x_Casey, Jul 01, 2003 03:42 AM [Re: Not really, Casey]
112063, x_HPierce, Jul 01, 2003 11:22 AM [thanks Casey]
112066, x_Casey, Jul 01, 2003 12:37 PM [--_--]
112084, x_HPierce, Jul 01, 2003 03:19 PM [Have to see both sides]
112092, x_Casey, Jul 01, 2003 06:31 PM [Re: Have to see bo...]
112110, x_HPierce, Jul 01, 2003 11:56 PM [Thanks for th...]
112152, x_Katie, Jul 03, 2003 02:02 AM [?? adult/mi...]
112165, x_HPierce, Jul 03, 2003 11:00 AM [We alr...]
112178, x_Casey, Jul 03, 2003 04:21 PM [Re: ?? a...]
112185, x_anti, Jul 03, 2003 06:31 PM [Re: ??...]
139978, paulina831, Sep 23, 2004 08:17 AM
111991, x_simon, Jun 28, 2003 08:57 PM [Re: Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts]
112018, x_CJ, Jun 30, 2003 12:09 PM [Re: Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts]
112025, x_Sisco, Jun 30, 2003 03:41 PM [Re: Good and bad]
112035, x_HPierce, Jun 30, 2003 11:22 PM [I'm glad you support my postion.]
112030, x_HPierce, Jun 30, 2003 09:49 PM [Re: Pedophile can't be punished for thoughts]
112106, x_Silverthorne, Jul 01, 2003 09:46 PM [Not a danger?]
112111, x_HPierce, Jul 02, 2003 12:02 AM [I agree]
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