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Forum: Polls
Thread (Discussion): Poll 1032 - Should people convicted of making a false sex crime claim appear on a public registry?
Message 121965
Introduction
Posted by admin
on Nov 19, 2003 08:36 PM | Also by admin
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Discuss Poll 1032 - Should people convicted of making a false sex crime claim appear on a public registry?
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Message 122001 (In Reply to Message 121965)
False Accusations Need To Be Taken Seriously Too
Posted by Navigatr1
on Nov 20, 2003 06:35 AM | Also by Navigatr1
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We have become a vindictive society that in some respects heralds back to the Victorian era. If we are going to hold sex offenders accountable long after their sentences have been completed by listing them online on a publicly accessable registry, then we need to take false accusations just as seriously. So they should appear on a public registry too for making false accusations.
Victim advocates may claim that this may hinder victims from coming forward for fear of being placed on such a registry However, the consequences for false accusations needs to be punished just as severely.
--Navigatr1
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Message 122007 (In Reply to Message 122001)
Posted by TGoodman
on Nov 20, 2003 10:01 AM | Also by TGoodman
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I agree with the fact that if a totally false claim of sexual abuse has been made that the person making the false claim needs to be held accountable. After all just the claim of sexual abuse is enough to ruin a person's life..
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Message 122031 (In Reply to Message 122001)
Posted by orolan
on Nov 20, 2003 06:58 PM | Also by orolan
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The concern of victims coming forward is a valid one, but only if the proper safeguards aren't put in place.
An acquittal should not bring about the automatic placement of the "victim" on a registry. Instead, a hearing should be held to determine if such an action is appropriate.
Such a safeguard should be all that is needed to allay any fears of unjust placement.
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Message 122183 (In Reply to Message 122031)
Trial v. Hearing
Posted by marta
on Nov 23, 2003 12:04 AM | Also by marta
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>>>
An acquittal should not bring about the automatic placement of the "victim" on a registry. Instead, a hearing should be held to determine if such an action is appropriate.
>>>
It has to be more than just a hearing, it has to be a trial. We only put convicted criminals on registries, and it should be no different where false accusations are concerned. You can argue that false accusations can be treated differently because they aren't currently categorized as crimes, but instead are viewed, if anything, as civil offenses, but if you do so, you undermine your argument for placing the person on a registry. Such a severe consequence warrants the due process ensured a defendant by the criminal justice system.
Laugh at that last bit if you'd like, but don't think it wasn't at least partly tongue in cheek.
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Message 122325 (In Reply to Message 122001)
Vindictiveness has nothing to do with it
Posted by marta
on Nov 25, 2003 05:06 PM | Also by marta
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>>>
We have become a vindictive society that in some respects heralds back to the Victorian era. If we are going to hold sex offenders accountable long after their sentences have been completed by listing them online on a publicly accessable registry, then we need to take false accusations just as seriously
>>>
A person convicted of a crime, be it a sexual offense, or making a false accusation of a crime, may be placed on a registry if society deems it necessary for the common welfare.
But it has nothing to do with vindictiveness. It has to do with public safety and public order. Don't convince yourself of anything else.
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Message 122608 (In Reply to Message 121965)
yes they should
Posted by alambert
on Dec 02, 2003 06:24 PM | Also by alambert
| Gender: Female,
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State: Missouri,
Country: United States |
I know from personal experience. My sister raped and molested my son with her boyfriend. Then when she thought that she was pregnant, out off fear of getting her and the boyfriend caught she falsely accused my husband. She was even sick enough to use an used condom out of our trash. Know there is a innocent person who has been in jail sence 1996 due to her lies. And that sicko is living next door to children.
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Message 122653 (In Reply to Message 122183)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 03, 2003 11:22 PM | Also by orolan
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That's a tough one. No state is going to want to foot the bill for a second trial.
Maybe it can be treated like the sentencing phase of capital cases? After an acquittal, have the same jury make a determination as to the truthfulness of the victim?
I don't take exception to your tongue in cheek comment about due process. But I did wonder about "such a severe consequence". Those of us on registries are constantly reminded that it is a simple administrative procedure, much like getting a permit to build a house. It isn't punitive and deprives us of no rights. So why would it be a "severe consequence" when applied to a person making false accusations? Especially if there are no criminal penalties to go along with it?
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Message 122694 (In Reply to Message 122653)
Oh no, no. Can't have that.
Posted by marta
on Dec 04, 2003 04:09 PM | Also by marta
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>>>
That's a tough one. No state is going to want to foot the bill for a second trial.
>>>
First of all, if falsely accusing someone of rape is a crime, it's not a second trial, it's a different one with a new defendant. A defendant who has every right to all of the due process protections afforded the person accused of rape.
The state will pay for what trials need to be had. If a crime has been committed, they are duty bound to pursue it vigorously.
>>>
Maybe it can be treated like the sentencing phase of capital cases? After an acquittal, have the same jury make a determination as to the truthfulness of the victim?
>>>
This will NEVER be the case. One can not be forced to serve as both witness and defendant in a trial for one's life or liberty. It has to be a separate trial. There is no way around it. You can not short-change someone's right to due process by doing it any other way.
>>>
But I did wonder about "such a severe consequence". Those of us on registries are constantly reminded that it is a simple administrative procedure, much like getting a permit to build a house. It isn't punitive and deprives us of no rights. So why would it be a "severe consequence" when applied to a person making false accusations? Especially if there are no criminal penalties to go along with it?
>>>
When I say any of the above things, I'll respond to this query. Until then, this line of questioning doesn't apply to me. I have never belittled the consequences of putting someone on a registry, and I refuse to answer for those who have.
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Message 122695 (In Reply to Message 122694)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 04, 2003 07:22 PM | Also by orolan
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I think the problem here has to do with "crime". The poll question asks simply if false accusers should be on some form of public registry. It doesn't ask if they should be charged with a felony criminal offense. So why the necessity for a trial and due process protections? As I see it, this is an administrative action, a "record-keeping" move. Nothing more. People are put on "lists" all the time without being afforded full trials by jury to decide if they indeed should be on that list. Just look at the CPS abuse registries for an example.
You said:
"One can not be forced to serve as both witness and defendant in a trial for one's life or liberty"
True. But we aren't talking about taking away anybody's life or liberty, are we?
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Message 122708 (In Reply to Message 122695)
Hmmm
Posted by marta
on Dec 05, 2003 05:02 AM | Also by marta
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>>>
I think the problem here has to do with "crime". The poll question asks simply if false accusers should be on some form of public registry. It doesn't ask if they should be charged with a felony criminal offense. So why the necessity for a trial and due process protections?
>>>
In my first post I wrote that such measures should be reserved for those who had been tried and convicted. This remains my belief even if the person in question is accused of child abuse, rape, or falsely accusing someone of rape. The state should not be able to compile lists of people and associate their names with crimes if the people have not, in fact, been convicted of a crime. Period.
If it happens with other crimes, it isn't an argument to do the same with those who have allegedly falsely accused someone of rape, but rather something OBVIOUSLY unjust that I'm surprised I haven't heard about it until now, given the community of posters here at sexcriminals.com. I'd like to hear more about these CPS abuse registries. In what way are they the same as the sex offender registries that most people seem to be refering to when they use the term? Are they in any way available to the public? Obviously this will vary from state to state, but just give me what you know first-hand so I can investigate further.
>>>
"One can not be forced to serve as both witness and defendant in a trial for one's life or liberty"
True. But we aren't talking about taking away anybody's life or liberty, are we?
>>>
Um. I sort of assumed that, were falsely accusing someone of rape to become a crime, there'd be an actual sentence for it, not just the registry. The registry is to warn off all the poor suckers the person runs into after they get out of jail and/ pay a huge fine (and let's not start that argument again - thanks).
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Message 142515 (In Reply to Message 122608)
Posted by rebel51
on Dec 18, 2004 12:38 PM | Also by rebel51
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I dont know if a registry would be the answer or not but I do feel that something should happen to anyone who falsely accuses anyone of a sex crime.
I have a good male friend who used to live with a female friend and her daughter. One day my male friend overheard the daughter and her friend talking about how the friends Dad had not let her go to a party and that now "the 'Basterd' will be sorry because the cops should be at the house anytime..boy wont he be surprised when he goes to jail for child molesting" giggle giggle. Needless to say my friend moved out that same day..he said that the last thing he wanted to do was upset eather one of those girls and be next on the list!!
Once you are accused of the crime, I dont think that you ever get rid of the stigma, even if it was false. I think that most people still feel that "where there's smoke there's fire".
So yes..I think that if you are found to have made a false accusation..you need some jail time and maybe your name should be on a list to warn other people what type person you are.
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Message 142539 (In Reply to Message 142515)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 19, 2004 02:49 AM | Also by orolan
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I dont think that you ever get rid of the stigma
Nope. Because rather than accept the person's innocence, society sees it as "he got away with it".
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Message 143488 (In Reply to Message 142539)
1032
Posted by oioi
on Jan 08, 2005 05:23 PM | Also by oioi
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There must be due process. If we are to take child abuse seriously, we have to make people who cry "wolf" accountable. Such persons should be tried and their names become a matter of public record if and when they are found guilty. I think that fines should be a matter of course and repeat offenders should do time.
An accusation of child abuse is an extremely serious matter. Those who would make false accusations are damaging the credibility of real victims, thereby perpetuating the culture of victim-blaming. They also damage the accountability of actual perpetrators by treating such accusations as tools for personal revenge rather than as protests against the inhumane act of abusing children and damaging them for life.
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Message 147933 (In Reply to Message 121965)
Posted by monkey4u
on Mar 24, 2005 04:31 AM | Also by monkey4u
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i dont know, i know people who have been assaulted who have been made to look like something they are not and police did not believe them therefore thier information never got to the da but this would huh?
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Message 151936 (In Reply to Message 122001)
Absolutely
Posted by mysticfyre
on May 18, 2005 05:48 PM | Also by mysticfyre
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Why should the accused be the only one who gets to have the type of treatment they get. For instance when a Wife/Husband get mad at one another and start making these False Accusations the only one who gets punished is the one being accused, the other one walks away with there very freedom they took away from the "Accused". Not only the Adults in this situation but also if the "Adult" is coaching a child into telling lies so that the other "Adult" is punished. When nothing happens to the ones making these accusations it makes society only look at the one Falsely Accused just because someone didnt get his/her way. Justice System doesnt look into the fact the one they are staring out could possibly be the INNOCENT ONE, and the accusers are the ones GUILTY! What happen to INNOCENT TIL PROVEN GUILTY?
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Message 156449 (In Reply to Message 122007)
Posted by mawmaw
on Jul 17, 2005 07:44 AM | Also by mawmaw
| Gender: Female,
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State: Pennsylvania,
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yes, .....I agree with the fact that if a totally false claim of sexual abuse has been made that the person making the false claim needs to be held accountable. After all just the claim of sexual abuse is enough to ruin a person's life..
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Thread
121965, admin, Nov 19, 2003 08:36 PM [Introduction]
122001, Navigatr1, Nov 20, 2003 06:35 AM [False Accusations Need To Be Taken Seriously...]
122007, TGoodman, Nov 20, 2003 10:01 AM
156449, mawmaw, Jul 17, 2005 07:44 AM
122031, orolan, Nov 20, 2003 06:58 PM
122183, marta, Nov 23, 2003 12:04 AM [Trial v. Hearing]
122653, orolan, Dec 03, 2003 11:22 PM
122694, marta, Dec 04, 2003 04:09 PM [Oh no, no. Can't have that.]
122695, orolan, Dec 04, 2003 07:22 PM
122708, marta, Dec 05, 2003 05:02 AM [Hmmm]
122325, marta, Nov 25, 2003 05:06 PM [Vindictiveness has nothing to do with it]
151936, mysticfyre, May 18, 2005 05:48 PM [Absolutely]
122608, alambert, Dec 02, 2003 06:24 PM [yes they should]
142515, rebel51, Dec 18, 2004 12:38 PM
142539, orolan, Dec 19, 2004 02:49 AM
143488, oioi, Jan 08, 2005 05:23 PM [1032]
147933, monkey4u, Mar 24, 2005 04:31 AM
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