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Forum: Polls
Thread (Discussion): Poll 1015 - In your opinion, what is the minimum requirements for an image to be considered child po - Referenced information on types of child molesters
Message 121936
Introduction
Posted by admin
on Nov 19, 2003 04:30 PM | Also by admin
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Discuss Poll 1015 - In your opinion, what is the minimum requirements for an image to be considered child pornography (not what you consider to be inappropriate, but what you classify as child pornography)?
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Message 151940 (In Reply to Message 121936)
Pictures
Posted by mysticfyre
on May 18, 2005 06:15 PM | Also by mysticfyre
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Well lets face just about every parent has had naked pictures of there babies taken. We dont exactly come in to this world with a full outfit on, and I think the last thing on a parents mind is to think about them being in trouble for having pictures of there kids when they are first born, or running around the house as a toddler naked after getting out of the tub and your mother/father chasing you with clothes while the other parent is trying to put clothes on you so your not getting a cold. Pornographic Pictures would be more in depth then those of these pictures taken of you as a child.
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Message 151951 (In Reply to Message 121936)
Posted by orolan
on May 18, 2005 08:52 PM | Also by orolan
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Actual photographs of actual children committing actual sexual acts either on themselves or with others.
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Message 151969 (In Reply to Message 151951)
pictures
Posted by innermostfrustrated
on May 19, 2005 12:51 PM | Also by innermostfrustrated
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Orolon, I think you summed it up pretty good!! So, I second that!
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Message 153236 (In Reply to Message 151969)
Posted by meister82
on Jun 08, 2005 04:23 PM | Also by meister82
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Better get rid of much of the cartoons that come on TV and appear in the Theaters nowadays, Don't want to be sending mixed signals here. (In Reply to the First Poll Option)
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Message 155113 (In Reply to Message 153236)
Posted by mawmaw
on Jul 04, 2005 05:31 PM | Also by mawmaw
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A sex offender can take ANY photo of a child even a plain simple photo of a smiling face or watching children play to a child eating a cookie in a shopping cart and lust and desire a child.... people this is their sex desire preference (children).... this desire as other sex preferences are almost impossible to change , could therapy or anybody change your preference ? I know nobody could change mine..... therefore years can go by without assulting a child for the offender but he's out there lurking and hunting his prey for the right one at the right moment when his desire strikes wether it be from a magazine photo or hard core child porn . The sex desire preference is there . We as people "know" by instinct if its appropriate or not and we know out intentions of action.
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Message 155193 (In Reply to Message 155113)
Posted by orolan
on Jul 05, 2005 01:09 PM | Also by orolan
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A sex offender can take ANY photo of a child even a plain simple photo of a smiling face or watching children play to a child eating a cookie in a shopping cart and lust and desire a child....
You mean 'child molester', right? Not 'sex offender', since more than a few of them have adult or teen victims, if they even HAVE a victim. Get it right.
And of course if what you say is true, why do we even distinguish between pornography and the Sears catalog?
Karla Homolka.
Know who she is? Canada's most hated and reviled sex offender. So in the future be sure to say 'they' instead of 'he'.
Lastly, run a Google search on this name:
Matal Zachery Sanchez
I bet this woman would have been just like you. "I would NEVER do such a thing". "Nobody could EVER change MY mind."
Anybody is capable of anything at any time. You included.
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Message 155342 (In Reply to Message 155193)
Posted by mawmaw
on Jul 06, 2005 10:42 PM | Also by mawmaw
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orolan ........... Do you even know what the question was here ? it was ......Discuss Poll 1015 - In your opinion, what is the minimum requirements for an image to be considered child pornography (not what you consider to be inappropriate, but what you classify as child pornography)? I said ...........
A sex offender can take ANY photo of a child even a plain simple photo of a smiling face or watching children play to a child eating a cookie in a shopping cart and lust and desire a child.................
we are talking about children in this topic not adults or teens ..... GET IT RIGHT !
---------------
You are right about the sears catalog as a child sex criminal is attracted sexually to children and they dont have to do anything but just "see" a child to arouse their desire for sex with a child.
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Message 155343 (In Reply to Message 155193)
Posted by mawmaw
on Jul 06, 2005 10:47 PM | Also by mawmaw
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Karla Homolka ......... BAD to the bone ! evil.... a maggot ! she should have got what her husband got !
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Message 155392 (In Reply to Message 155343)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 07, 2005 02:25 PM | Also by 1dadof5
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Back to THE question which Orolan did a good basic description.
I would further qualify that by making sure that the CP image has a real child involved and not a drawing or computer generated image(CGI) I think that any image which also presents a child manipulating thier sex organs is also pornographic.
AND, just because somone may find the Sears catalog sexually stimulating, that does not make it porn. Abercrombie and Fitch catalogs are also NOT pornographic
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Message 155440 (In Reply to Message 121936)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 08, 2005 05:24 AM | Also by Scaye
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It's all about suggestive posing. A kid with his undies down to his knees and he is looking up at the camera, is porn.
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Message 155441 (In Reply to Message 121936)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 08, 2005 05:25 AM | Also by Scaye
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It's all about suggestive posing. A kid with his undies down to his knees and he is looking up at the camera suggestively, is porn.
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Message 155491 (In Reply to Message 155193)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 08, 2005 07:50 PM | Also by confusedgf
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Orolan, I think this can be taken even further...there are also different categories of "child molesters." Not all child molesters are pedophiles, just as not all pedophiles are child molesters. Quoting from the "Criminal Law Lawyer Source" at http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/molestation.html
"There is a common misconception that all child molesters are pedophiles. A pedophile is an adult with a psychosexual disorder whose primary sexual preference is children. Pedophiles develop this condition in adolescence to early adulthood and generally have the condition their entire lives. It is estimated that only between two and twelve percent of all child molestation cases are perpetrated by pedophiles. Conversely, not all pedophiles are child molesters. It is not a crime to have a sexual preference for children per se; it is a crime to act on these feelings and inclinations."
I think it would be most helpful to educate the public, starting with our own children, as to the difference between a pedophile and a situational or regressed molester; the majority of child molesters fall into this category.
The regressed molester DOES NOT have a preference for children, nor does he or she get any sexual pleasure from looking at child pornography. This class of offenders is treatable AND curable whereas pedophilia is considered more of a medical condition. In that light, it is an untrue statement to say that ALL child molesters get pleasure from looking at children in any capacity.
My opinion on child porn? Advertisements, cartoons, video games--all have been known to exploit children in a sexual fashion. I'm unable to find the site now, but there has been extensive research on subliminal sexual messages in advertisements containing children. One particular image comes to mind of a young child--perhaps 8--long hair covering her "breasts"...where her breasts would be are two wine bottles, strategically placed to elude to the idea of the child's "breasts."
I guess we all see and believe what we want to see and believe...depending on our motives.
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Message 155496 (In Reply to Message 155491)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 08, 2005 09:22 PM | Also by dp1
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I think it would be most helpful to educate the public, starting with our own children, as to the difference between a pedophile and a situational or regressed molester; the majority of child molesters fall into this category.
What difference would it really make? If either type of pervert touched my kid or had a nude pic of my kid I would expect maximum punishment as a victim. I wouldn't plea to the Court and ask for leniancy for the Defendant because this creep molested my kid, but he was ONLY a situational molester.
I haven't read much of your background. You sound like a wife of a RSO....still trying to convince yourself that he's not all that bad because he only did whatever and didn't mean it?
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Message 155497 (In Reply to Message 155496)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 08, 2005 10:28 PM | Also by confusedgf
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I haven't read much of your background. You sound like a wife of a RSO....still trying to convince yourself that he's not all that bad because he only did whatever and didn't mean it?
Hold your horses dp1; you need to follow the thread before getting on your judgement stand. Mawmaw had stated something to the effect that all sex offenders look at any child in a lustful fashion. Orlono had replied, and my reply is to his comments. This post had nothing to do with "creeps touching children" but rather child pornography. Follow the thread, and take my comments in the context they were intended (in response to child pornography).
I'm not condoning or making excuses for anyone that harms a child in any fashion (mentally, physically, sexually). I do however believe that treatment and support (IN GETTING HELP) is the answer over condemnation and stereotyping. I would think in your professional position you, too, would be more interested in stopping the problem through prevention
What I meant by educating the public and my children is directly opposite of how you took it. Pedophiles are easier to identify, according to some sources (reference the link in my former post) than are situational molesters...these people have no known attraction to children--would probably not get off on child porn (whereas pedophiles do) and can therefore be harder to identify.
And you're right. You don't know me. You don't know my situation. You don't know what I think or feel. Therefore, I find it interesting that you're so eager to jump to conclusions. If you would like to know more about me, send me a private message. I'm not into public blastings...I'm into stopping an epidemic that's gotten way out of hand.
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Message 155505 (In Reply to Message 155497)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 09, 2005 02:47 AM | Also by dp1
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I would think in your professional position you, too, would be more interested in stopping the problem through prevention
You got that right. The best method is a simple one. Keep children away from sex offenders or any other types of people that may corrupt our children. This isn't rocket science. I spend a lot of time locking up sex offenders for having contact with children. To be honest, if I could lock up the children's mothers for letting their children associate with a known sexual offender I'd be happy going the extra mile. This is a no brainer. No contact means no abuse. It can't get any simpler.
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Message 155521 (In Reply to Message 155505)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 09, 2005 02:02 PM | Also by confusedgf
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Strange view of "prevention" dp1. How can one keep sex offenders away from their children if they don't know they are offenders? Do you lock up every sex offender twice? Does prevention not include support and counseling? And, in your opinion, should all sex offenders be locked up for life? Who pays the bill---and who cares for the families left behind without an income. What other programs that support victims of abuse will be affected because the government is paying the bill for sex offenders to sit in prison cells. And now, let's lock up the mom's as well...
Scary to think you are in a position that I would assume has a primary responsibility for finding ways to keep people out of prison...seems your goal is to get them back there.
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Message 155576 (In Reply to Message 155497)
Posted by PVulcan
on Jul 09, 2005 06:49 PM | Also by PVulcan
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Pedophiles are easier to identify? Could you pass me your crystal ball please! There are pedophiles that don't offend, so how did you come to the conclusion that they can be identified? Also this 'situational molester'?? lol Can you describe that person to me also. Is it like, if the situation arises, they molest??? For the love o pete! Often times we buy into catch phrases because they give us a false sense of safety especially if the offender is a spouse/partner/family member. Newmind said it all when he said these are not mistakes by these offenders they are planned!
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Message 155583 (In Reply to Message 155521)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 09, 2005 08:05 PM | Also by dp1
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Strange view of "prevention" dp1.
So what you are saying is that it is the Government’s responsibility to control sex offenders and protect our children. YOU have no responsibility whatsoever. So it’s ok for you to date, marry or associate with a KNOWN offender and allow your children to be around this sickness. Prevention to YOU means to look every other place in the world for answers to the dilemma of sexual abuse instead of taking responsibility yourself by simply eliminating this evil element in your life. There is nothing more effective to preventing abuse than simply eliminating the possibility of abuse. Taking the abuser or the children out of the equation works. YOU have control to make this difficult decision and have chosen to live in a risky situation. I will pray for the safety of your children.
How can one keep sex offenders away from their children if they don't know they are offenders?
This is not relevant to this discussion. You know this man is an offender and are failing to keep him away from your own children. Who in the world has more control than you over this situation? Nobody. Who is charged with the responsibility to protect their kids? You are. The Government helps out by posting known offenders on the websites and places restrictions on them in regards to their parole conditions. This is not an end all to the problem as you have so graciously reminded us.
Do you lock up every sex offender twice?
Sex offenders need to be locked up when they break the law or violate their conditions of parole. It’s not important how many times they go to jail as long as they are in jail not reoffending or placing the community at risk, again.
Does prevention not include support and counseling?
Absolutely. We should always support a sex offender’s efforts when it comes to rehabilitation. Prevention is not limited to counseling. Eliminating high-risk situations is paramount. Not only should we support his efforts in regards to counseling we should also respect the fact that he has issues with children and keep them away from him so his tendencies don’t get the best of him. Teasing sex offenders with children would not be my idea of supporting a sex offender; although I would include that as one of many things some people do to enable abuse. I wouldn’t support an alcoholic by taking him to a bar for lunch; however, I’d offer him a meal in a non-alcoholic environment. Supporting sex offenders does not mean enabling risky situations. Sex offenders do not seek out women with children to date simply by accident. Likewise, an alcoholic doesn’t just by accident end up at the local friendly tavern for a bite to eat.
And, in your opinion, should all sex offenders be locked up for life?
Nope. Only some should be. Hopefully, the rest can be rehabilitated and keep their hands off children.
Who pays the bill---and who cares for the families left behind without an income.
Hopefully anyone and everyone with the exception of another abuser stepping into the scene of a vulnerable women with children buying his way into her life, befriending her and her kids, then abusing that trust. There are unfortunately so many pitiful situations where the single mom is so desperate for love, money or support that she once again makes a bad choice. It’s a vicious cycle. Abusers are well aware of this abuse cycle and are able to continue their behavior. There are plenty of women without children they could date or be friends with. But, unfortunately the attraction isn’t there if no children are involved. Sad, isn’t it?
What other programs that support victims of abuse will be affected because the government is paying the bill for sex offenders to sit in prison cells.
Prison is supporting victims or potential victims. Counseling has never been proven to be more effective than incarceration.
And now, let's lock up the mom's as well...
Sure, why not? How would you feel if your mother let you live with a pervert who molested you? What if your mother let you play on a busy highway? Or what if she locked you in a closet for a month? This is a no-brainer. It’s not 100% the offenders fault if the mom enabled the situation as well. It’s common sense to most of us not to allow sex offenders around our children. Maybe not to you. But some other things might be common sense to you. How about quitting smoking so you lower your risks of lung cancer? Makes sense, no?
Scary to think you are in a position that I would assume has a primary responsibility for finding ways to keep people out of prison...seems your goal is to get them back there.
Ah, let’s get down to business here. This one’s my favorite of all your comments. How distorted can views get? The primary responsibility is to keep the community safe. That would include you and your children by the way. Think about this and let this digest for a few moments. Think about your own thinking errors and how somehow your primary focus is not the kids but the offender. My goal is NEVER to keep the offender out of prison nor is to ALWAYS keep him in prison. If we are able to focus solely on the primary goal of safety without being sidetracked or misguided it all falls into place very easily. One must put her priorities in order first to think clearly and make responsible decisions. Would it be responsible for me as a Probation Officer to allow a sex offender to drink too much? Live with children? View porn? Skip therapy sessions? Not pay restitution for victim’s counseling? No it wouldn’t. Is it mean to lock up an offender who clearly does not comply with his conditions? No it isn’t. When I lock up an offender for VOP or reoffending does that mean I hate ALL offenders? No it doesn’t. All locking up an offender does is take the known abuser out of the equation and that’s a pretty good start to preventing future assaults. Would you agree?
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Message 155618 (In Reply to Message 155583)
Posted by mawmaw
on Jul 09, 2005 11:31 PM | Also by mawmaw
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This post .....confused mother said ...
How can one keep sex offenders away from their children if they don't know they are offenders?
dp1 said
This is not relevant to this discussion. You know this man is an offender and are failing to keep him away from your own children. Who in the world has more control than you over this situation? Nobody. Who is charged with the responsibility to protect their kids? You are. The Government helps out by posting known offenders on the websites and places restrictions on them in regards to their parole conditions. This is not an end all to the problem as you have so graciously reminded us.
Confused mom......... You need your kids took away from you IF you choose to stay with a known sex criminal ! There is help out there ,call the womens shelters.. you can get a free education and child care to help you along ........ where is your family ?? where is the mawmaw of your kids ??....... you dont have to have this pervert or what ever you want to sugar coat his title for being attracted to YOUR KIDS ............. I would get my kids and run like hell from this guy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all the stuff that you leave behind is material stuff that can be replaced !!!!!!!!
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Message 155632 (In Reply to Message 155440)
Posted by Scaye
on Jul 10, 2005 01:22 AM | Also by Scaye
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Ignore this post. I double posted. The one below this is edited. 155441 i believe.
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Message 155760 (In Reply to Message 155583)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 11, 2005 11:19 AM | Also by confusedgf
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dp, there is no point in conversing with you as you enjoy placing so many of us (myself included) into boxes. I would like for you to go back through anyone of my posts and SHOW me anywhere I've indicated that 1) I live with a sex offender, 2) that my children have been around this person since I've KNOWN he was an offender. Again, the offense took place many months before I met him and it was NOT reported by the victim until AFTER he met me. Do I try to get help for him? YES. Do I try to find encouraging ways for him to deal with his problem? ABSOLUTELY. Do I put my children's safety at risk, NO. So keep your condeming thoughts to yourself..or not..I dont' really care. You and a lot of society like you are so eager for answers without asking the first question in trying to understand. Don't stereoptype me, dp...I don't fit your cookie cutter.
Get on with you life dp...and I appreciate your prayers...that's what the world needs more of...more prayers and less condemnation.
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Message 155761 (In Reply to Message 155618)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 11, 2005 11:24 AM | Also by confusedgf
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Once again, mawmaw, read the response I placed to dp. You, and the rest of the world that want to think I'm putting this man BEFORE my children need to get some brakes for your opinions...if you have questions, ASK me...don't jump to conclusions so quickly.
First of all, none of you know anything about me, about the situation, or about my children. I'll not be posting to this forum again as I find that a few of you with God Almighty attitudes are trying so hard to HELP that you don't first identify the problem.
Perhaps you, too, should be in some sort of safe place...I'm sure, to you and to dp, everyone living around you poses some threat to you. When you find your safe, glass house, give both me and dp1 a call...I'm sure we could share it...
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Message 155762 (In Reply to Message 155576)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 11, 2005 11:36 AM | Also by confusedgf
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Look, I've tried to find educated answers, and apparently there are none. I came to this site for educated discussions. With each post of information of research or opinion, I've posted a website or article reference. If you disagree with the researcher, that's what I want...more articles or informed answers. I do not seek retaliation or more condemnation. And for the record, I value Newmind's open, honest and helpful insight into my situation as well as the situation of others. His thoughts have been very productive and helpful...unlike the many attacks I've received. I'm not sure what you people are trying to accomplish, but it's not working. To have someone jump to conclusions, not even ask me about anything, but throw me into categories of every other person they've known or throught they've known, only turns a deaf ear. If you people TRULY want to try to help...me, my children..other women and children...try first to understand where EVERYONE might be coming from before you lock us up in jail or a women's shelter
1) I am a responsible parent
2) I OWN my own house and do not share it with any man...I haven't since the children's father beat us all to a pulp more than 12 years ago
3) Child molesters have always been a threat and a fear to me
4) I did NOT know my bf was a molester until after we met, fell in love, and YES, he does have potential for seeking help, and is open to help
5) I will try to assist him at getting help
6) Most importantly, BOTH my daughters are just as safe as any of yours; I know at least one person around me (not my children, but me) is a child molester. Can you say the same? Perhaps, like me, you don't know...YET.
PVulcan, go back through my posts,...they're easy to find by clicking on "other posts by confusedgf." Read the research articles I've listed...this will tell you where I came up with the statements I made. You know, I'm not an expert on this subject...I don't profess to be. I'm just glad so many of the rest of you are....
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Message 155792 (In Reply to Message 155618)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 11, 2005 07:01 PM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
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State: Indiana,
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You need your kids took away from you IF you choose to stay with a known sex criminal
even if the offense was a prostitution charge with a grown woman?
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Message 155840 (In Reply to Message 155792)
Dad
Posted by dp1
on Jul 12, 2005 04:08 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
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State: Florida,
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Geez Dad! Must you always make sarcastic remarks and continually minimize a sex offender's actions? For crying out loud this guy molested his own daughter and this lady with kids is going with him. This is not a joking matter. You see how she pouted and ran. It makes no sense whatsoever. That does not give you the green light to make light of a serious situation.
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Message 155841 (In Reply to Message 155761)
mawmaw
Posted by dp1
on Jul 12, 2005 04:11 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
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I find that a few of you with God Almighty attitudes are trying so hard to HELP that you don't first identify the problem.
Can't you see Mawmaw the problem is not him?
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Message 155844 (In Reply to Message 155760)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 12, 2005 04:36 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
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without asking the first question in trying to understand.
For DECADES I've been trying to understand why women with children date, get friendly, hang around, have sex with, have dinner with, live with or marry (pick one that fits) sex offenders. I'm over asking questions. It seems you are the one in a position to explain. It's pretty clear to me. I have seen FAR more sex offenders reoffend than I care to talk about. I am fully aware that most sex offenders molest people they know (that would be you - the cookie cutter). For someone in your position to leave in such a huff without even being able to discuss this intelligently is one big RED FLAG. I HIT A NERVE with you. I am sorry you are offended. It's sad that you can't just say "No" and that you view other's that have no tolerance for abuse as condemning people. With all priorities in order one day you will see that loving and protecting your children come first. Men that hurt children (that would be your boyfriend who abused his own daughter) are NOT a high priority when raising children. This powerlessness you describe since you fell in love with him is most disturbing.
Please pass the crystal ball onto PVULCAN before you leave the site. We are going to need it. With all these crazy risk assessment tools we have we are still unable to predict who is most likely to reoffend. Glad you were able to use it to get the real deal.
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Message 155896 (In Reply to Message 155844)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 12, 2005 01:45 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
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State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
In your God Almighty wisdom, dp1, I'd think you should have all the crystal balls. You, without any knowledge, are all knowing. For the record, I am not tucking my tail and running. However, I fail to see how any of this is an "intelligent" discussion as you refer to it. Being stereotypical, being assuming, being all knowing is far from intelligent. Others here may find you refreshing, reassuring, caring, and in whatever stretch of the imagination, intelligent. I find you none of these. Afterall, though, I'm the poor little girlfriend. You've jumped to conclusions so many times over my situation that your calves must be sore. No, I'm not tucking my tail and running...and you can see all the red lights you want...I just refuse to have any conversation with a person that is so dead set on "this is the way of the world" that they can't even see the world...by the way...you never answered my questions...are you married? Do you have children? Have you ever had to deal with this from a PERSONAL basis versus on the outside looking in? If so, perhaps your opinions may mean more to me.
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Message 155899 (In Reply to Message 155844)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 12, 2005 02:02 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Oh, and by the way, what does any of this have to do with this thread of posts? Ah, that's right...a post I made about child pornography was taken out of context and used as an opportunity by the glass house dwellers to throw more attacks.
For those who didn't know before dp shared with you a bit of information I had shared with her in PRIVATE message. I, not knowing what is true, and what is not, came here (to the victim's corner first, and then to this forum) to learn more about child molestation, what the warning signs are, how to know what is true and what is not true, and to find effective means for all of us to deal with the emotions surrounding this.
That said, it may be viewed as I'm tucking my tail, that I don't want to hear the truth, whatever you want. Afterall, we all see what we want to see....including dp. Just a side note...careful what you say in a private message (even though you intended it to be private or else you would have publicly posted it), when someone gets backed against a wall, they may choose to share it on an open forum to get the support they may otherwise not have to prove their point.
touche, dp.
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Message 155902 (In Reply to Message 155841)
mawmaw and dp
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 12, 2005 02:14 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Can't you see Mawmaw the problem is not him?
Ok, mawmaw, is the problem HIM? or is the problem CHILD MOLESTATION...regardless of whom it is? I am not protecting him...I do not condone his actions...I do not in any way uphold anything he might have done to a child...repeatedly I have said this.
Please tell me dp and mawmaw...what is so wrong with trying to find help (counseling, programs that will assist him in dealing with this problem)? What is WRONG with that. dp, you repeatedly contradict yourself. You seem to make several posts suporting counseling and rehabilitation and even provide support to select posters on here that are in counseling programs and who are seeking help. Would this all mean more if it were the bf making these posts instead of me? Is that it? Is it that every female in the world should see men as the problem, and not the problem itself? Should you be the only woman in the world to provide encouragement to a child molester or could-be child molester?
I'm still waiting mawmaw and dp for effective answers from either of you.
Oh, and for you convicted molesters out there...I assume you should never have a meal, a friendly conversation, words of encouragement, nothing...ever from a woman..oh, and don't even entertain the thought that love may go deeper than the problem...for if it does, it will be misconstrued that the person loving you can only love you and not their children.
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Message 155908 (In Reply to Message 155902)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 12, 2005 02:51 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
What is WRONG with that. dp, you repeatedly contradict yourself. You seem to make several posts suporting counseling and rehabilitation and even provide support to select posters on here that are in counseling programs and who are seeking help.
Don't kid yourself, puleeze.I have never not supported counseling unless the person is too much of a danger to society then obviously incarceration would be the only solution. The issue is not about whether or not you support counseling - it's about healthy boundaries. Is it healthy for a women to get emotionally involved with a sex offender if she has kids? I have children and do not date sex offenders so obviously I have no personal experience with this. This is not a slam against you or him. I'm questioning the boundary that's all.
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Message 155910 (In Reply to Message 155899)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 12, 2005 03:04 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
has been accused of molesting a child (not my own).
Forgot what you posted in your first thread? Obviously if it wasn't your kid it was his. Oops, I forgot the very small possibility he molested a complete stranger. Either it was his kid or a stranger, either way we know it wasn't YOUR kid. If it was his kid and you care to discuss whether it was his biological or step child then fine. Either way, you never discussed who the victim was and who their natural father was in PM.
You are certainly going to great lengths to avoid the touchy issue of healthy boundaries.
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Message 155915 (In Reply to Message 155899)
Privacy of private messages
Posted by steve
on Jul 12, 2005 03:18 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Just a side note...careful what you say in a private message (even though you intended it to be private or else you would have publicly posted it), when someone gets backed against a wall, they may choose to share it on an open forum...
confusedgf and others, if you tell someone something in confidence privately and it's shared on the forums, be sure to discuss the situation with that person and if you can't work it out or feel that a post should be edited or removed as a result, let me know via Private Message. I don't know the circumstances of this particular issue, but I do know that for me personally it's sometimes hard to remember what a person shared publicly versus privately, so it's even possible I could share something that the other person wouldn't want shared.
I guess this also begs the question, should the information shared in PM between two users here be considered implicitly confidential, or only confidential if one person explicitly states it is? I thought there was a forum guideline about sharing information from a Private Message or email without the other user's permission, but apparently not. That was addressed a while ago, but I think it's time to revisit it. I've created a thread Information in private messages - explicitly or implicitly confidential? where discussion of this should proceed (not here in this thread).
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Message 155939 (In Reply to Message 155908)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 12, 2005 06:46 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Is it healthy for a women to get emotionally involved with a sex offender if she has kids?
dp, what part of "I did NOT know he was a sex offender when I met him and became involved" do you not understand?
What part of "NO ONE except him and his daughter knew he was a sex offender when I met him" do you not understand?
What part of "I did not GET involved with a child molester but with a handsome, successful business man whom I would LATER learn would be charged with molesting his daughter" do you not understand?
What part of "I have ALWAYS and will continue to keep my daughters safe at all cost" do you not understand?
What part of "I care about him and his family and want them ALL to get the help they need" do you not understand?
What part of "I, too, need help in dealing with the pain and suffering all of us are going through" do you not understand?
You indicate that you have children and do not date sex offenders...hmmm...in April of this year I could have said the same thing...and THOUGHT I was making a factual statement. That's not the case now. So what do you do when you care about a good person who has done a bad thing (you seem to agree based on another of your posts that good people can do bad things, even sex offenders).
If you'll recall, my original post here was "what do you think about punitive versus corrective measures?" I didn't say no one should be punished for molesting children...I didn't say HE was totally innocent...I didn't say "I agree with everything he's done and he just had a bad day that's all." I asked, rather, WHAT measures should be taken to CORRECT A PROBLEM. I did not say it is NOT a problem! I did not say HE does not have a problem...
Please stop with the bashing...stop with the "let's arrest this person for helping a child molester get counseling because he's after her children." Let's stop with placing people in boxes and keeping them there. Instead, would it not be more beneficial to address my questions with positive, effective answers...suggestions for programs that might help us all?
Look for a moment at what you write in response to one of "dad's" postings, referring to me:
For crying out loud this guy molested his own daughter and this lady with kids is going with him. This is not a joking matter. You see how she pouted and ran.
Definitely a mature, supportive response, don't you think? I don't ask you to agree with my decision to try to help him in finding corrective measures, but don't portray me to be the blinded-by-love girlfriend who is dressing my little girls in thongs and training bras, having them prance around in front of him, leaving the room so he can get his jollies, and then returning to say, "Oh, I trust you with her..I know you would never harm her because you love me." Get real! I am not offering my children as sacrifices to some monster because I love him! And see how I pouted and ran?!! Or, could it have been that I don't appreciate being attacked in a public forum where no one, not even you, knows the details of the situation (including my or my children's contact with this person).
No, I don't expect you to agree with me...two months ago *I* wouldn't have agreed with me or anyone else taking this stance. However, it is different when you walk in the shoes...perhaps you would make a different decision..perhaps you would throw him back to the wolves (whatever caused the problem to start with) to fend for himself...perhaps you would come here and brag as to how you did it. I'm not you! That doesn't make me wrong and you right. That doesn't make my children any less safe than yours.
dp, you're in a position to make a positive influence on a lot of lives. Please take that opportunity to be helpful.
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Message 155941 (In Reply to Message 155910)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 12, 2005 06:51 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Either way, you never discussed who the victim was and who their natural father was in PM.
dp, from a private message I sent to you on July 8:
As with most stories of this nature, it's long and complicated. And you're right...bottom line is, whatever the story, it doesn't matter. What he did was wrong and he is being punished as he should be (the pain he's brought on his family--and in particular his daughter-- being the worst punishment of all).
Ok, I *thought* this said it was his daughter, no? And, let's see...does it not say "he should be punished???"
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Message 155942 (In Reply to Message 155915)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 12, 2005 06:54 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Steve, sorry. I did not see your post before sending my response to dp...I do appreciate your efforts in addressing private posts. Although nothing posted on the internet is "confidential," I do expect those I correspond with here to keep private message information private. I'll discuss in the appropriate spot you indicate.
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Message 155955 (In Reply to Message 121936)
Posted by Teft
on Jul 13, 2005 01:53 AM | Also by Teft
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
You mean 'child molester', right? Not 'sex offender', since more than a few of them have adult or teen victims, if they even HAVE a victim. Get it right.
Hey Orlan, mawmaw is right. I second her post and wording. She "got it right" pal.
To answer the poll, I say that, like mawmaw points out, any photo of a child can be desirable to a "Sex Offender". But she points out that our instincts (non-Sex Offenders that is) tell us what's pornography.
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Message 155964 (In Reply to Message 155941)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 13, 2005 04:25 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Whatever floats your boat. If it's important for you to take the position that there's no way in the world I could have made the assumption that he molested his own kid before you PMd me then so be it. With or without your PM my comments in the forum would have been the same. I see nothing to argue about though. My ego isn't that fragile and God only knows I've figured out much bigger mysteries. I was hoping to go ahead and suggest that Steve delete or edit any or all the posts at your request; however, it appears it's a moot point now.
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Message 155967 (In Reply to Message 155939)
Posted by PVulcan
on Jul 13, 2005 07:02 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
So what is he doing to help himself? What is he doing to seek counselling? Why are you seeking counselling for him? You said he's a successful business, so he's not a derilect, why are you doing all the leg work? Is he actually in counselling or no?
I would like to be able to offer you words on how to support him after molesting his daughter, but I really don't know how to. I guess if this is a committed relationship and you see a future with this man you could attend counselling with him? Obviously this has upset your world and your kids and there are sites for partners of sex offenders to get support. I don't know what those sites are, but someone here will know them.
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Message 155974 (In Reply to Message 155967)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 13, 2005 08:56 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
http://sohopeful.org/
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Message 156018 (In Reply to Message 155939)
Posted by dp1
on Jul 13, 2005 01:54 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I understood everything you were saying. Although I was confused about the time line. You mentioned that you started your relationship in April? Isn't it like only July? I'll have to admit I was under the impression that there was a much greater emotional investment in the relationship.
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Message 156030 (In Reply to Message 155967)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 13, 2005 03:03 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
Pvulcan, I know you haven't read all my posts, but I have acknowledged that he is in counseling, he sought counseling himself, but unfortunately, because he has not been convicted, the "official sex offender" programs aren't being offered to him, or, if they are, they are so expensive he can't afford them.
He's meeting regularly with an LCP and also with a minister (yes, he actually does believe in God and has always practiced Christianity...good thing God doesn't place a value on sin as society does).
Although not a spouse of a SO, I am very close to this man and would welcome any resources helpful in working through this. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Message 156031 (In Reply to Message 155974)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 13, 2005 03:06 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
dp, thanks. I've gone to the site, and it appears to have some useful information. I appreciate the reference.
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Message 156034 (In Reply to Message 156018)
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 13, 2005 03:09 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
I learned of the abuse in late April, and we had been seeing each other for a while. The abuse occurred several months prior. As for the emotional investment, what I'd like for you to understand is that this has little to do with the fact that the person is my bf...it has more to do with I feel he is a good person and needs support.
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Message 156252 (In Reply to Message 155942)
what makes me sick
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 15, 2005 07:10 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
i get sick and tired of you right wingers equating the term and interchanging "sex offender" with "child molester" or "pedophile"
What most of you are referring to in your posts are CHILD MOLESTERS and not the average sex offender. and as silverthorne has correctly pointed out but you all fail to comprehend, most pedophiles are NOT child molesters and not everyone who looks at a picture of a child on the internet are guilty of possessing child porn.
Perhaps some of you can use FACTUAL terms when addressing the issues. when you use stereotypical terms that are NOT accurate it only shows ignorance and a severe lack of education
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Message 156253 (In Reply to Message 155618)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 15, 2005 07:17 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
mawmaw. I have learned on this forum that there are some people that should not even be allowed to have children in the first place, including those with a limited education.
confused is doing a great job in these circumstances. She takes good care of her kids and protects them while at the same time being a good friend to another human being who is in need of support and guidance
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Message 156255 (In Reply to Message 155342)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 15, 2005 07:21 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
quick, lock up the ad designers and photographers of every major department store or retail outlet in this worlds because they are producing child pornography!! AAAHHHHH the horror of it all!!
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Message 156256 (In Reply to Message 155955)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jul 15, 2005 07:27 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
She "got it right" pal
no PAL, she got it waaay wrong and doesnt seem to have any knowledge of what goes on beyond her 16th century salem village where witch killing is still enVogue.
So teft, tell me something, since I have one of those teens who poses in many retailers advertising supplements, does that mean I am promoting child pornography? or are you simply envious because she makes more money at it than you make every year?
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Message 156292 (In Reply to Message 155576)
Referenced information on types of child molesters
Posted by confusedgf
on Jul 15, 2005 04:40 PM | Also by confusedgf
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
One comment in the quote is relevant to this poll discussion as it mentions a possible link between adolescent abusers and exposure to sexually explicit material.
In response to other posts trying to educate people on the different profiles of child molesters, I quote the following.This is one of many resources available, based on research of the different types of child molesters.
From http://www.indianngos.com/issue/child/sexual/resources/types.htm
Types of Child Sex Offenders
Preferential Child Molester
Preferential Child Molesters have a definite sexual preference for children. Their sexual fantasies and erotic imagery focus on children. They have sex with children not because of some situational stress or insecurity but because they are sexually attracted to and prefer children. If this individual does not act on his urges, then he is not a child molester.
Situational Child Molester
Situational Child Molesters do not have a true sexual preference for children, but engage in sex with children for varied and complex reasons. This type of molester may engage in sex with a child, ranging from a once-in-a-lifetime act to a long-term pattern of behavior. The more long-term the behavior is, the more difficult it is to distinguish from a preferential molester. Members of lower socioeconomic groups tend to be overrepresented among situational child molesters.
Adolescent Offenders
An area of increasing attention is that of adolescent offenders. This type of offender can fit the characteristics of the preferential or situational child molester. Adolescent (or younger) offenders should always be viewed as past or current victims of sexual abuse. This may include psychological sexual abuse, inappropriate exposure to sexually explicit materials, and/or the repeated or inappropriate witnessing of adult sexual activity.
Source : 'Child Molesters: A Behavioral Analysis' by Kenneth V. Lanning.
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Thread
121936, admin, Nov 19, 2003 04:30 PM [Introduction]
151940, mysticfyre, May 18, 2005 06:15 PM [Pictures]
151951, orolan, May 18, 2005 08:52 PM
151969, innermostfrustrated, May 19, 2005 12:51 PM [pictures]
153236, meister82, Jun 08, 2005 04:23 PM
155113, mawmaw, Jul 04, 2005 05:31 PM
155193, orolan, Jul 05, 2005 01:09 PM
155342, mawmaw, Jul 06, 2005 10:42 PM
156255, 1dadof5, Jul 15, 2005 07:21 AM
155343, mawmaw, Jul 06, 2005 10:47 PM
155392, 1dadof5, Jul 07, 2005 02:25 PM
155491, confusedgf, Jul 08, 2005 07:50 PM
155496, dp1, Jul 08, 2005 09:22 PM
155497, confusedgf, Jul 08, 2005 10:28 PM
155505, dp1, Jul 09, 2005 02:47 AM
155521, confusedgf, Jul 09, 2005 02:02 PM
155583, dp1, Jul 09, 2005 08:05 PM
155617, Rejected
155618, mawmaw, Jul 09, 2005 11:31 PM
155761, confusedgf, Jul 11, 2005 11:24 AM
155841, dp1, Jul 12, 2005 04:11 AM [mawmaw]
155902, confusedgf, Jul 12, 2005 02:14 PM [mawmaw and d...]
155908, dp1, Jul 12, 2005 02:51 PM
155939, confusedgf, Jul 12, 2005 06:46 PM
155967, PVulcan, Jul 13, 2005 07:02 AM
155974, dp1, Jul 13, 2005 08:56 AM
156031, confusedgf, Jul 13, 2005 03:06 PM
156030, confusedgf, Jul 13, 2005 03:03 PM
156018, dp1, Jul 13, 2005 01:54 PM
156034, confusedgf, Jul 13, 2005 03:09 PM
155792, 1dadof5, Jul 11, 2005 07:01 PM
155840, dp1, Jul 12, 2005 04:08 AM [Dad]
156253, 1dadof5, Jul 15, 2005 07:17 AM
155760, confusedgf, Jul 11, 2005 11:19 AM
155844, dp1, Jul 12, 2005 04:36 AM
155896, confusedgf, Jul 12, 2005 01:45 PM
155899, confusedgf, Jul 12, 2005 02:02 PM
155910, dp1, Jul 12, 2005 03:04 PM
155941, confusedgf, Jul 12, 2005 06:51 PM
155964, dp1, Jul 13, 2005 04:25 AM
155915, steve, Jul 12, 2005 03:18 PM [Priv...]
155942, confusedgf, Jul 12, 2005 06:54 PM
156252, 1dadof5, Jul 15, 2005 07:10 AM [what makes me...]
155576, PVulcan, Jul 09, 2005 06:49 PM
155762, confusedgf, Jul 11, 2005 11:36 AM
156292, confusedgf, Jul 15, 2005 04:40 PM [Referenced info...]
155440, Scaye, Jul 08, 2005 05:24 AM
155620, Rejected
155632, Scaye, Jul 10, 2005 01:22 AM
155441, Scaye, Jul 08, 2005 05:25 AM
155955, Teft, Jul 13, 2005 01:53 AM
156256, 1dadof5, Jul 15, 2005 07:27 AM
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