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Forum: Off Topic
Thread (Discussion): Tookie Williams
Message 168576
Posted by orolan
on Dec 04, 2005 04:04 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Curious what people think about Stanley "Tookie" Williams; co-founder of the worldwide "Crips" street gang, and his upcoming execution?
Should the Gropenator grant him clemency on the basis of his works to end the street violence he helped to perpetrate, efforts that garnered him nominations for the Nobel Prizes for Peace and Literature?
Or should he be executed for the 4 murders he was convicted of?
Do you think his execution will spark a violent backlash in the streets, riots that make Watts look like a playground scuffle?
Or do you think life will go on and nobody will care?
Please, no racist bigotry. I want to know what you think of the man and his past, present and future. Not his color.
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Message 168618 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Posted by rodsmith
on Dec 05, 2005 05:18 AM | Also by rodsmith
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
well using the same reasoning they use on an RSO there is NO redemption...so why should he be diff...fry him.
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Message 168665 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Posted by Renunciation
on Dec 05, 2005 06:06 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
1. His best selling book sold a little more than 300 copies. A literary giant, Tookie is not.
2. His claims to have founded the Crips are false, and additionally, even if true, would do little to bolster his position, yet he still uses it to get attention.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47666
I am not a big fan of the death penalty, so I would say no to execution based on personal feelings, however CA law permits death, and in this case, per the law, I suppose he should die.
You can expect riots, but I doubt to the level of Watts. The police are too trigger happy out here now, and the people know it. There will be some opportunistic rioting, an excuse to loot, but I doubt the level to Watts.
The Gropinator will probably deny him clemency.
R
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Message 168674 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Posted by rabbitreborn
on Dec 05, 2005 11:00 PM | Also by rabbitreborn
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I think he was found guilty by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death by the laws of this land so therefore he should be executed in accordance with the laws.
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Message 168683 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Dec 06, 2005 08:06 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
That’s a great question, Orolan, that I think needs to be addressed especially when the next step after 25 to life laws for SOs is the death penalty for fondling.
As much as I can admire what he has done while in prison, It cant excuse his particularly heinous actions which were committed in cold blood and without any regrets. To this day he has not apologized for his crimes and claims innocence. He has certainly had plenty of time to do by now. Besides, how many death row inmates HAVENT made right with God, so to speak, before Execution day.
I say, let him die. Ultimately, It will say to his followers by example “Life is special, if you take a life in cold blood with intent to o so, you deserve to lose your own life.
However, that is not to say that I think the death penalty actually deters murder, because I don’t believe it does. There are some particularly heinous things that deserve to pay the ultimate price for, and a life for a life is one of them. When it comes to gangs and terrorists and illegals, I say “kill em all and let God sort them out”
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Message 168685 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Posted by Navigatr1
on Dec 06, 2005 01:16 PM | Also by Navigatr1
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Is this the same person that Snoop Dog was rallying behind? I heard something on the radio about this, and wasn't sure if this was the same person.
--Navigatr1
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Message 168706 (In Reply to Message 168665)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 07, 2005 03:38 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
1. His best selling book sold a little more than 300 copies. A literary giant, Tookie is not.
That according to a service that monitors retail sales of books and didn't start until 2001. Tookie's gang violence books were sold through Power Kids Press, which supplies schools direct. And they published "Gangs and Violence" in 1996, 5 years before BookCount even existed.
His claims to have founded the Crips are false
Actually I believe he claims to have co-founded the gang. The media dropped the "co", not Tookie.
Not stating a position one way or the other, but I'm not going to judge him by the statements of a single Hollywood actor in a newspaper article either.
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Message 168707 (In Reply to Message 168685)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 07, 2005 03:40 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Same person.
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Message 168727 (In Reply to Message 168707)
Posted by Valerie
on Dec 07, 2005 01:49 PM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
There probably is no one on this board more pro-death penalty than myself...but I am giving myself alot of thought on this topic...its not as if the guy will walk out of prison if his sentence is commuted...if he had been convicted in a state with no death penalty....we wouldn't be having this discussion. I haven't read his books and really dont know much about him other than the media hoopla surrounding him. But I am trying to wrap my mind around the premise of crime and punishment here...tough one...
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Message 169125 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Update
Posted by Renunciation
on Dec 10, 2005 05:41 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/5503561/detail.html?rss=la&psp=news
sporadic-yet-credible threats of civil unrest
Clever use of words.
>>>
"I'm standing here as a white guy that represents the 11th District
Oh brother...........................
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Message 169289 (In Reply to Message 169125)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 12, 2005 03:34 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Oh brother...........................
No kidding. What an idiot. He should have NEVER mentioned skin color.
Then there's this story:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13384820.htm
For the record before Arnie announces his decision today, I think Tookie should die. He has never expressed remorse or regret or apologized for the murders he was convicted of. His appeals are all based on imagined procedural errors and the typical "because I'm a black man" claim of injustice. I don't buy it.
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Message 169296 (In Reply to Message 169289)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Dec 12, 2005 04:43 PM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
I don't buy it.
me neither. can we just stick the needle in and get it over with?
and if the folks riot as a result, thats why the police have guns. use them. dont let it get out of control. If a few rioters die then maybe the rest of them will go home and finally see that he got what he deserved.
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Message 169314 (In Reply to Message 169296)
Posted by Renunciation
on Dec 12, 2005 07:36 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
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State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
LOL
One thing the cops in Los Angeles are not afraid of is using their guns.
Renny
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Message 169321 (In Reply to Message 168576)
No
Posted by Renunciation
on Dec 12, 2005 09:44 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
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State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
All is quiet so far .
Reb?? Any rioting by you?
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Message 169341 (In Reply to Message 169321)
Posted by Valerie
on Dec 13, 2005 02:03 AM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
as most of you know I work in a medical office and am in contact and conversation with about 20 people a day on lots of subjects...everyone says fry him..I was amazed, I thought there would be more descention about this....but tonight is the night right? as adamant about the death penalty that I am.. I actually write Jeb Bush every month and ask him if he will have the kahunas "this month" to do the will of the people on one of the issues he was elected on. Needless to say I dont hear much back on that subject..North and South Carolina are jumpin lately, you dont see too many "stayed" in their state...I am still on the fence on this one...all the guys I talk too say fry him, and Arnold would, but then they say, Maria might not let him...
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Message 169353 (In Reply to Message 169321)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 13, 2005 03:29 AM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
"If Stanley Williams does not deserve clemency," said attorney Peter Fleming Jr., "what meaning does clemency have in this state?"
What it "means" dear sir is that people like this
...Williams had never expressed remorse for the four murder victims. Williams has steadfastly maintained his innocence.
don't get any.
As stated before, I would view things differently had Williams done exactly that all those years ago when he allegedly "reformed". Admitted his guilt, express his sorrow and remorse. Not for his pending fate but for the victims and their families. Tookie Williams thought of one thing all these years. Tookie. Selfishness. Without that remorse, everything he has done since then has not been for the kids. It's been for Tookie.
If he is indeed telling the truth and is innocent, God will take care of the screwup.
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Message 169355 (In Reply to Message 169353)
Posted by PVulcan
on Dec 13, 2005 04:50 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Oh what a surprise, Jesse Jackson has appeared at the final hours yet again! He's constistant when it come to opening his mouth and changing feet!
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Message 169364 (In Reply to Message 169353)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Dec 13, 2005 08:18 AM | Also by 1dadof5
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Indiana,
Country: United States |
45 more minutes to go. Arnold says no to clemmancy, and O'Connor said No to his last ditch efforts as well. bout time.
anyone seen the picures of his victims? horrible, horrible photos of the crime scene and the victims. Lets get this over with so the families can finally have justice after 25 years
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Message 169365 (In Reply to Message 169321)
Posted by rebel51
on Dec 13, 2005 08:20 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
I was out and about earlier and there was not a peep of anything even resembling riots...road rage yes...checkstand rage definatly...but no rioting.
I feel that the exacution should go forth as planned. EVERYONE gets religion when they get the actual date they will be standing before Him.
My cousin who is the most evil person that I had ever met was VERY religious each and every time he got out of prison. One time he was even going to become a preacher...I think that was just before he knocked out his mothers teeth and bit a chunk out of his brothers back.
So I have no faith in the "good guy" who is trying to get out of being executed...I say do it.
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Message 169369 (In Reply to Message 168576)
Has Been Executed
Posted by Navigatr1
on Dec 13, 2005 12:38 PM | Also by Navigatr1
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I heard on the radio that Tookie has been executed. While I am usually against the death penalty, it would have been a travesty of justice not to execute him. I am sure the victim's advocates would agree for that was the sentence prescribed to him by law. The gropinator had denied him clemency, and the US Supreme Court declined to intervene. I am sure some future governor of California will give him clemency postpartum in an effort to garner favor from some group because it will be to his political advantage at the time.
My feelings on the death penaly is that a life sentence is worse than the death penalty for you have to spend the rest of your life in prison rather than enjoying the freedoms afforded you on the outside. The death penaly doesn't give victim's any closure. The only thing the death penalty does is save the tax payers money by not warehousing him in a prison and paying the associated medical expenses as he ages. There have been cases where a person was exonerated AFTER they were put to death. By then it is too late.
--Navigatr1
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Message 169445 (In Reply to Message 169369)
Posted by Valerie
on Dec 14, 2005 11:26 AM | Also by Valerie
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Bits and pieces are coming out to the media by prison guards who had the "pleasure" of interacting with this guy for the past many years. Haven't heard anything of any redemption etc...hearing alot of "he wont be missed" and a "real troublemaker" not to mention threats from gang members to anyone who actually interacted with him. In three months people wont remember his name. Obviously this is a good riddance example..
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Message 169479 (In Reply to Message 169445)
Posted by Renunciation
on Dec 14, 2005 04:57 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
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State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
In three months people wont remember his name.
Who's name?
Not even the Crips themselves are speaking out on this issue. No cries for retribution, no calls for violence, nothing.
It was like the entire Tookie issue died when he died. The official statement from the Gropinator was quite moving. I read it and though I am not a huge fan of the DP, I felt that since CA passed that sentence, he seemed a perfect candidate to receive it.
It is a hard thing to do, to kill a man. People who talk big about being able to do it have never actually killed someone, or they are psychpaths who enjoy doing it. Even police cope with this when they have to kill someone to protect themselves.
Williams bragged about doing it, and planned to do it again. That told me he received the correct sentence under CA law and that the people of CA have seen justice served.
What was his name again?
Clarence Allen is next.
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Thread
168576, orolan, Dec 04, 2005 04:04 PM
168618, rodsmith, Dec 05, 2005 05:18 AM
168665, Renunciation, Dec 05, 2005 06:06 PM
168706, orolan, Dec 07, 2005 03:38 AM
168674, rabbitreborn, Dec 05, 2005 11:00 PM
168683, 1dadof5, Dec 06, 2005 08:06 AM
168685, Navigatr1, Dec 06, 2005 01:16 PM
168707, orolan, Dec 07, 2005 03:40 AM
168727, Valerie, Dec 07, 2005 01:49 PM
169125, Renunciation, Dec 10, 2005 05:41 PM [Update]
169289, orolan, Dec 12, 2005 03:34 PM
169296, 1dadof5, Dec 12, 2005 04:43 PM
169314, Renunciation, Dec 12, 2005 07:36 PM
169321, Renunciation, Dec 12, 2005 09:44 PM [No]
169341, Valerie, Dec 13, 2005 02:03 AM
169353, orolan, Dec 13, 2005 03:29 AM
169355, PVulcan, Dec 13, 2005 04:50 AM
169364, 1dadof5, Dec 13, 2005 08:18 AM
169365, rebel51, Dec 13, 2005 08:20 AM
169369, Navigatr1, Dec 13, 2005 12:38 PM [Has Been Executed]
169445, Valerie, Dec 14, 2005 11:26 AM
169479, Renunciation, Dec 14, 2005 04:57 PM
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