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Forum: Off Topic
Thread (Discussion): And now a "Deadbeat" list is coming! - Orolan
Message 122476
Where will it end?
Posted by lj
on Nov 30, 2003 01:06 AM | Also by lj
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: California,
Country: United States |
http://www.rrstar.com/localnews/your_community/springfield/20031129-4947.shtml
‘Deadbeat’ Web list stirs more debate
By AARON CHAMBERS, Rockford Register Star
SPRINGFIELD — There’s one more reason a person’s photograph could wind up posted on a state Web site — and one more reason for civil libertarians to complain the government is pushing the bounds of personal freedom.
The Illinois Department of Public Aid’s announcement Monday that it will post the names and photos of “deadbeat” parents on its Web site marked the expansion of this state’s practice of using the Internet to spotlight people who break the law.
llinois government increasingly uses the Web to alert the public as to the whereabouts of sex offenders. It also employs the tactic to encourage citizens to settle public debt.
Court-ordered child support is the issue with “deadbeat” parents. The department is using its Web page to highlight parents who owe $5,000 or more in child support.
Lonnie Nasatir, administrator of the department’s child support program, said the scheme should cause delinquent parents to materialize and agree to payment plans with custodial parents. In the alternative, Nasatir hopes third parties will help lead authorities to a delinquent parent’s assets or employment information.
He said the display also should motivate delinquent parents not on the list to pay up.
“Those similarly situated people who owe over $5,000 in the Illinois system hopefully will hear about this,” he said. “And I think shame is a pretty good motivating source for them to say, ‘I don’t want to be the next person on this Web site. I need to contact the department and find a way to get back on track and pay what I owe.’”
Civil libertarians have long complained about proliferation of personal information on the Internet. The information at issue is public record. But previously, somebody interested in retrieving it had to contact the state or a county clerk. That severely limited the flow of information.
“What is it that we are trying to accomplish with these sites?” asked Ed Yohnka, communications director for the Illinois American Civil Liberties Union. “It seems that we look at these lists as a way to embarrass or shame people. And the question is whether that is a legitimate tool for the government to use to enforce laws and regulations.”
Nasatir said the public aid department was careful to scrutinize records relative to each case. In addition, he said, the custodial parent in each case agreed to have the case publicized.
“We did a lot of due diligence on the cases that we put there (online),” Nasatir said. “And we will do the same for those cases that will appear in the future.”
The state Department of Revenue ordinarily publishes a similar list — of tax scofflaws — on its Web site, but the list is temporarily unavailable. Department spokesman Mike Klemens said this is due to a staff shortage.
“We will go forward with that in some fashion,” he said.
The revenue department has credited Internet publicity of scofflaws with helping the department recoup millions of dollars in delinquent tax revenue. At one point, the list included 19 scofflaws from the Rock River Valley who owed more than $400,000.
The Department of State Police hosts the sex offender database — the most notorious of Internet offender lists. Visitors to the state police Web site can search for registered sex offenders by ZIP code, city or county.
Dominic Iasparro, deputy chief of detectives at the Rockford Police Department, said the public is interested in this information, and police routinely field phone calls from people asking about local sex offenders.
The reporting system does have limitations. Sex offenders are required by law to register their whereabouts and they do not always do so.
“The burden is on them to come forward, and the burden is on us to follow up and make sure they provide accurate information,” Iasparro said. “If somebody moves into town and doesn’t register, we may not have knowledge they moved into town unless they are stopped for a particular crime and we determine they are a sex offender from another city. That has to catch up to itself.”
Yohnka noted the range of crimes for which a convict must register has evolved well beyond pedophilia. The General Assembly has given extraordinary attention to this class of criminals in recent years and there are at least 31 such offenses. They include possession of child pornography, sexual relations within families and first-degree murder of a child.
The state police database includes more than 14,000 registered adult sex offenders.
“It’s difficult to say that something has been prevented from taking place,” Iasparro said. “But I think people and children are safer because of the sex registration laws and the fact that it’s publicly available.”
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Message 122975 (In Reply to Message 122476)
Posted by TGoodman
on Dec 12, 2003 04:03 AM | Also by TGoodman
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Kansas,
Country: United States |
I initially tought of responding to this by saying that I think a "deadbeat" database is a great idea. But the more I think about it the more I am against this type of registry. While I have an ex that would be one of the first to be placed on such a registry, I just don't think this type of information should be made public in this way.
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Message 122994 (In Reply to Message 122975)
I like the idea
Posted by marta
on Dec 12, 2003 03:16 PM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
>>>
. . . I just don't think this type of information should be made public in this way.
>>>
Why? Do you object to any list of parents that don't pay child support? Or are you worried that some parents will unfairly end up on such a registry when they fall on hard times?
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Message 123003 (In Reply to Message 122994)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 12, 2003 04:50 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
From my standpoint, I see it as a bad idea. I pay my support to a court clerks office, who forwards it to state Dept. of Families, who send a check to my ex. These people know that not only am I current, I'm overpayed by around 37 months. Trouble is, the local Dept. of Families in my ex's state thinks that I haven't paid a dime in over 12 years, and swear I am $15,000 behind. This is because they never see the checks. They have no jurisdiction at all, but that doesn't stop them from continually trying to have me arrested. Odds are they would place me on a "deadbeat" registry.
Due to the totally inadequate record-keeping skills of our government employees, the whole thing would be a mess. And the "innocent" would be forced to spend their own money to get themselves removed.
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Message 123004 (In Reply to Message 123003)
Posted by steve
on Dec 12, 2003 06:06 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
> Due to the totally inadequate record-keeping skills of our government
> employees, the whole thing would be a mess. And the "innocent" would
> be forced to spend their own money to get themselves removed.
I don't doubt that. It appears to happen too often. Though the employees entering and working with the data should share some of the blame, they're only part of the problem. Work culture, attitudes and lack of appropriate supervision and controls is a big part of it.
There needs to be more of a focus on accurate data, funding needs to ensure it, and there needs to be both penalties for failure and incentive to ensure accuracy. Sharing bad data quickly doesn't benefit anyone.
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Message 123024 (In Reply to Message 123004)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 12, 2003 11:50 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Another issue I have seen, and one that played a part in my problems, is privatization. My ex's home state has outsourced their support management and collection to a national company (based in Virginia, I think). I'd like to know how this company gets paid, ie support collected or support "on the books".
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Message 123028 (In Reply to Message 123003)
Unbelievable
Posted by marta
on Dec 13, 2003 12:36 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
>>>
I pay my support to a court clerks office, who forwards it to state Dept. of Families, who send a check to my ex. These people know that not only am I current, I'm overpayed by around 37 months. Trouble is, the local Dept. of Families in my ex's state thinks that I haven't paid a dime in over 12 years, and swear I am $15,000 behind. This is because they never see the checks.
>>>
Seems like something that could be readily resolved by sending copies of your cancelled checks to the Dept of Families in your ex's state.
Although I probably shouldn't be surprised, I have a very hard time believing that this situation has remained as is for 12 years with any kind of effort on your part to set it to rights. What have you done and why hasn't it worked?
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Message 123046 (In Reply to Message 123028)
Posted by orolan
on Dec 13, 2003 03:52 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Actually, it has been resolved at this point.
Three years ago, when they finally managed to intercept my tax refund check, the you-know-what hit the fan. Certified letters to the national office from my attorney, with cc's to the US Attorney's Office. Threats to bring the company and it's officers up on Federal charges. Demands by me that the entire staff of the local office be fired.
I got my refund check via Federal Express within 2 days, and didn't hear from them for 18 months.
Then one day my ex called me to ask if I knew what was going on with my payments. Seems she had not received one in five weeks, and the local Dept. of Families in her state were seekng an arrest warrant. I checked with the Clerk's Office in my state, who indicated that my payments had been duly received, logged and passed on. On to the Dept. of Families in my state. They indicated that they had indeed received the payments, had not passed them on, and had already mailed a letter to me asking what to do with the money. It seems that they had been told via verified fax by Dept. of Families in my ex's state to NOT send any more money 6 weeks earlier, because the file had been closed. The same agency that was now seeking an arrest warrant because no payments had been received. The judge put a stop to that one. They had to seek a warrant in my home state, because their local court held no jurisdiction and refused to get involved. My local judge took great exception to this agency attempting to muscle in on his jurisdiction once the facts were put before him, and he threatened them with contempt charges if they ever tried such a thing again.
I never heard from them again, and my payments stopped this past Monday when my middle child turned 18. I have custody of my youngest, so the support payments have flip-flopped. Now she is supposed to pay me for the next 18 months, but I'm not planning on asking for it.
In all truthfullness, I could have permanently resolved the issues about 7 years ago. But I actually enjoyed the sparring with them. It's pretty easy when you know without a doubt that there is nothing they can do to you.
But that doesn't change the fact that they are incompetent.
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Message 123059 (In Reply to Message 123046)
Orolan
Posted by TGoodman
on Dec 13, 2003 09:00 PM | Also by TGoodman
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: 30 - 39,
State: Kansas,
Country: United States |
Hey, would you consider moving to FLA and intervening in my CSE case???? I can't get this state to do anything to enforce his child support!
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Thread
122476, lj, Nov 30, 2003 01:06 AM [Where will it end?]
122975, TGoodman, Dec 12, 2003 04:03 AM
122994, marta, Dec 12, 2003 03:16 PM [I like the idea]
123003, orolan, Dec 12, 2003 04:50 PM
123004, steve, Dec 12, 2003 06:06 PM
123024, orolan, Dec 12, 2003 11:50 PM
123028, marta, Dec 13, 2003 12:36 AM [Unbelievable]
123046, orolan, Dec 13, 2003 03:52 PM
123059, TGoodman, Dec 13, 2003 09:00 PM [Orolan]
123029, Rejected
122996, Rejected
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