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Forum: In the News
Thread (Discussion): [Concord Monitor] Alcohol use does not cause sexual violence - Nav
Message 144771
Introduction
Posted by admin
on Jan 30, 2005 06:11 PM | Also by admin
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Discuss the article Alcohol use does not cause sexual violence, by Scott Hampton, which appeared on Concord Monitor on January 23, 2005.
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Message 144773 (In Reply to Message 144771)
Posted by orolan
on Jan 31, 2005 02:04 AM | Also by orolan
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Not a bad article once you get past the obvious bias.
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Message 144789 (In Reply to Message 144773)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Jan 31, 2005 07:55 AM | Also by 1dadof5
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even with the slight bias, it is still a very good article and makes a very good point of accountability
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Message 144796 (In Reply to Message 144773)
Posted by dp1
on Jan 31, 2005 03:06 PM | Also by dp1
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What do you consider obvious bias?
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Message 144820 (In Reply to Message 144796)
DP1
Posted by orolan
on Jan 31, 2005 09:56 PM | Also by orolan
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Start with this
while the victim's intoxication makes it more difficult for her to guard against attack.
The author ignores the very real event where the "victim" merely has a lower inhibition threshold and does things they later regret, which results in a rape charge in order to deflect the blame. Think Kobe Bryant.
Close with this
The only person who ever is responsible for a sexual assault is the perpetrator. The victim never is.
This case is only true when there indeed actually WAS an assault, instead of the aforementioned accusation out of shame or regret.
In other words, the author is biased in assuming that every "assault" is real, when in fact they are not all legitimate.
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Message 144824 (In Reply to Message 144820)
Posted by dp1
on Feb 01, 2005 02:59 AM | Also by dp1
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My my Orolan. You're overly sensitive these days. considering the topic of the article and focus of discussion is:
The recent Judicial Conduct Committee hearings on the Judge Franklin Jones case have focused attention on the overlap between alcohol use and sexual assault. Let us explore that link.
I find your assessment of "obvious bias" a simple overraction. The author never intended to discuss ALL accusations....simply providing a brief overview of the role of alcohol in sexual violence cases.
Touchy touchy lately O, what gives? Have you been wrongly accused of something lately or just going through a change of life? Enquiring minds have a need to know.
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Message 146698 (In Reply to Message 144771)
Posted by guilty1
on Mar 07, 2005 08:32 PM | Also by guilty1
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You can't get any clearer than that... Although I committed my crimes while under the influence of drugs and alcohol... I have been clean and sober for many yrs. now... "I do not and cannot" blame my use of depressants on my molesting... Because I had those thoughts when I was sober... I wanted what I wanted and my using only helped to let down what ever barriers were holding me back when sober... Alcohol is a disinhibitor but like the man says...
If you do not at least think about doing something when sober, you are unlikely to do it when drunk. No one worries about becoming so intoxicated that he will lose control and stab himself in the eye with a fork. Why? Because he would never consider doing that when sober. .
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Message 146786 (In Reply to Message 146698)
Posted by orolan
on Mar 09, 2005 03:14 AM | Also by orolan
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If you do not at least think about doing something when sober, you are unlikely to do it when drunk.
Interesting concept. So we are to assume that drunks who plow through crowds of kids at the fair or hit trees at 140 MPH or get on the freeway going the wrong way thought about and desired to do those things when sober? People who beat their wife or girlfriend half to death in a drunken rage sit at their desk during the day planning such an event? Prosecutors in Florida stand in the courtroom daydreaming about how cool it would be to do what they just got through railroading somebody else for doing?
Fascinating. I'm never going outside again.
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Message 146810 (In Reply to Message 146786)
orolan
Posted by myoung
on Mar 09, 2005 07:37 AM | Also by myoung
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don't be silly...you are missing the point. A person who hits a tree or plows into a crowd while drunk is usually falling asleep or is for sure...not in control. What they are talking about here is a desire to do something that takes a reduction in inhibition to perform. Yes, a person may sit at their desk at work thinking about how much they wanted to punch their spouse during an argument etc. Then, when they are drunk, they feel those feelings of rage again. While sober, they were able to "hold back" those impulses. While drunk, well, unlikely they'll hold back. You were comparing two totally different things there. There are very different reasons that a person might hit a tree versus hit their spouse. They are right about this. I met many people in my journey of missed diagnosis....I've been in many dual diagnosis clinics....most people report the same thing....impulse control gone wild once the drug of choice is introduced.
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Message 146908 (In Reply to Message 144771)
Posted by guilty1
on Mar 10, 2005 08:49 PM | Also by guilty1
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Interesting concept. So we are to assume that drunks who plow through crowds of kids at the fair or hit trees at 140 MPH or get on the freeway going the wrong way thought about and desired to do those things when sober? People who beat their wife or girlfriend half to death in a drunken rage sit at their desk during the day planning such an event? Prosecutors in Florida stand in the courtroom daydreaming about how cool it would be to do what they just got through railroading somebody else for doing? Fascinating. I'm never going outside again.
No, The person who gets a DWI or into an accident or kills themselves or others while drinking and driving, doesn't plan or scheme or fantasize about doing just that. What they do though is introduce intoxicants into their system quite on purpose...Then they choose to get behind the wheel of a 2 ton vehicle. And if they are doing 140 mph a quite powerful one at that... Trust me on this, as a Recovering Alcoholic and Drug Addict, who has owned his own share of powerful cars and who was also a black-out drinker, I KNOW...When I drank or used nobody and I mean nobody could take my car keys from me. I consider it a miracle none of those things happened when I was drinking and using.
I doubt many domestic abusers plan on beating up the ones that love them...What you do have though, is a person with very deep anger and self esteem issues, who takes out their frustrations on others...Period...
The problem is not so mush the intoxicant but the underlying problems underneath...You have anger issues get help...You have a drinking or drug problem get help... You have an attraction to underage kids, for Gods sake GET HELP...
DENIAL as far as I'm concerned is a disease to many of us suffer from... I was in denial about my problems with alcohol, drugs and an attraction to underage girls... I was too much of a coward to get help all the while telling myself that a real man figures out how to handle his own problems...
Don't mean to be so scathing... But I do know cause I've been there done that...
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Message 147376 (In Reply to Message 146908)
guilty1
Posted by orolan
on Mar 16, 2005 03:28 PM | Also by orolan
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No problem with the 'scathing'. I'm used to it:-))
I understand where your coming from on substance abuse. Never been there myself, as I was able to recognize the dangers before I got to hooked to quit.
I just don't see the rationale that a person who committed a sex offense while intoxicated or stoned is inherently bad and would have done so sober if given the chance.
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Message 147378 (In Reply to Message 146810)
Posted by orolan
on Mar 16, 2005 03:39 PM | Also by orolan
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I hear ya, but I disagree. Yes, drugs and alcohol lower your inhibitions. They also tend to give certain people a feeling of being all-powerful, or indestructible, or immortal. They also virtually shut down your ability to have some common sense and reasoning.
Couple those with the strongest biological urge the human body has, being the sex drive, and its quite easy to see how a person can find themselves in a situation they would not otherwise be in sober. And finding ones self in such a position drunk in no way implies that one would seek out the same illegal activity sober. Or desired to do so when sober.
I'm certainly not saying that intoxication should be a valid defense to a sex crime. But I don't believe all persons who committed a sex crime while intoxicated are in fact pedophiles when sober. Heck, I don't even believe all people who committed a sex crime SOBER are pedophiles or deviants.
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Message 147391 (In Reply to Message 147376)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Mar 16, 2005 07:03 PM | Also by 1dadof5
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I just don't see the rationale that a person who committed a sex offense while intoxicated or stoned is inherently bad and would have done so sober if given the chance..
I agree, Orolan BUT, I can remember waking up a couple times with someone I never would have been with had I been sober. eeeww!
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Message 147404 (In Reply to Message 147391)
Posted by orolan
on Mar 16, 2005 10:24 PM | Also by orolan
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That is true. Alcohol certainly is the best beauty treatment. The more you drink, the better they look:-))
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Message 147420 (In Reply to Message 147404)
email
Posted by myoung
on Mar 17, 2005 04:26 AM | Also by myoung
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tell me you've never received the email that was going around for the past two years where you press a button that looks like a beer and the more of them you press, the prettier the ugly lady in the middle of the screen gets. Eventually she looks as good as Carmen Electra...too funny!! I actually think it's titled beer goggles or something like that.
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Message 147425 (In Reply to Message 147420)
Posted by 1dadof5
on Mar 17, 2005 07:40 AM | Also by 1dadof5
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yes, you kind also find it on funnyjunk.com
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Message 148235 (In Reply to Message 144771)
Posted by guilty1
on Mar 28, 2005 09:52 PM | Also by guilty1
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So now I am confused on everyones outlook on this thread...Are you saying I should be forgiven for my crimes because I was wasted???
Maybe be taken off the SO list...perhaps even a pardon from the govenor????
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Message 148271 (In Reply to Message 148235)
Posted by dp1
on Mar 29, 2005 01:59 AM | Also by dp1
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Maybe be taken off the SO list...
Sure why not. RSOs are nothing but Romeo and Juliets, drunken mooners, kids that play spin the bottle and consenting touching games, and ridiculous women who date younger people or commit crimes against nature.[/sarcasm]
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Message 148382 (In Reply to Message 148235)
guilty1
Posted by Navigatr1
on Mar 29, 2005 05:59 PM | Also by Navigatr1
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guilty1 wrote:
Are you saying I should be forgiven for my crimes because I was wasted???
I don't see why not. People on this board seem to think getting wasted on their drug of choice , and then driving is a valid excuse. If they happen to hit someone, perhaps kill them, it is just an accident. So if you happened to sexually abuse someone while under the influence, it is just an accident.
I am sorry, but if you kill someone while intoxicated it is manslaughter -- not an accident. Alcohol or drug consumption is just an excuse, and is not not taking responsibility for your actions. Sure it may lower your inhibitions, but you knew the consequences of consuming that drug before you took it. Society if more willing to make excuses for someone who commits a crime while they are intoxicated perhaps because they have gotten wasted a few times themselves. Society needs to stop minimizing these type of crimes. Drug consumption is a CHOICE, not an accident.
--Navigatr1
CopWatch.com News Moderator
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Message 148388 (In Reply to Message 144771)
Posted by guilty1
on Mar 29, 2005 07:25 PM | Also by guilty1
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If you would of read my two previous replys to this thread, you would of realized I was being sarcastic...I have never mimimized nor denied my crimes...Nor have I blamed the use of intoxicants on them...It seem by others replys though that maybe I should or perhaps I misunderstood them...But I wont because I of all people know better....
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Message 148441 (In Reply to Message 148382)
Nav
Posted by myoung
on Mar 30, 2005 05:47 AM | Also by myoung
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who said it was just an accident if someone, who is wasted, kills a person?? I think we all agree that it's manslaughter, no? I think we do.....at least I do. it's no accident that your arm bends and your hand, holding the glass of booze, finds its way to the mouth.... no one forces anyone to drink. Did someone on this forum ever actually say that driving drunk and killing someone while under that influence was an excusable accident?? I don't recall that
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Thread
144771, admin, Jan 30, 2005 06:11 PM [Introduction]
144773, orolan, Jan 31, 2005 02:04 AM
144789, 1dadof5, Jan 31, 2005 07:55 AM
144796, dp1, Jan 31, 2005 03:06 PM
144820, orolan, Jan 31, 2005 09:56 PM [DP1]
144824, dp1, Feb 01, 2005 02:59 AM
146698, guilty1, Mar 07, 2005 08:32 PM
146786, orolan, Mar 09, 2005 03:14 AM
146810, myoung, Mar 09, 2005 07:37 AM [orolan]
147378, orolan, Mar 16, 2005 03:39 PM
146908, guilty1, Mar 10, 2005 08:49 PM
147376, orolan, Mar 16, 2005 03:28 PM [guilty1]
147391, 1dadof5, Mar 16, 2005 07:03 PM
147404, orolan, Mar 16, 2005 10:24 PM
147420, myoung, Mar 17, 2005 04:26 AM [email]
147425, 1dadof5, Mar 17, 2005 07:40 AM
148235, guilty1, Mar 28, 2005 09:52 PM
148271, dp1, Mar 29, 2005 01:59 AM
148382, Navigatr1, Mar 29, 2005 05:59 PM [guilty1]
148441, myoung, Mar 30, 2005 05:47 AM [Nav]
148388, guilty1, Mar 29, 2005 07:25 PM
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