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Forum: In the News
Thread (Discussion): [Newsday.com] Sex offenders to face risk hearings - dp1
Message 136706
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Posted by admin
on Jun 28, 2004 11:34 PM | Also by admin
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Discuss the article Sex offenders to face risk hearings, by Zachary R. Dowdy, which appeared on Newsday.com on June 28, 2004.
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Message 136707 (In Reply to Message 136706)
Posted by dp1
on Jun 29, 2004 03:52 AM | Also by dp1
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State: Florida,
Country: United States |
There are about 18,000 sex offenders registered in New York according to this article, but As many as 7,200 sex offenders in New York have eluded the scrutiny of Megan's Law will undergo risk-assessment hearings to determine the category in which they will be listed. Due to a 1998 U.S. District Court ruling, sex offenders who were convicted before Megan's Law went into effect on Jan. 21, 1996 have not had their information released.
What are they saying? Before Megan's Law there were 7,200 SO's convicted and in the last few years they convicted 10,800? Whether it's 7,000 or 18,000 how is New York going to get all these assessment hearing done before the SO's die of old age?
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Message 136708 (In Reply to Message 136706)
Posted by Navigatr1
on Jun 29, 2004 05:01 AM | Also by Navigatr1
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Last week, state officials sent out letters notifying offenders they have an opportunity to appear in court to challenge the risk levels assigned to them.
I hope all the offenders take the state up on their offer, and challenge their risk level in court. It should be up to the court to decide what level of risk the sex offenders present. A recent US Supreme Court decision means that a jury and not a judge would have to decide what the risk level would be. The decision essentially said that a judge cannot rule on what facts are "exceptional", and that it would have to be decided by a jury. I think that this decision would also apply in a risk level determination. Screw what the scoring tools say. Let a jury decide.
The risk level determinations in court are going to cost the state of New York more money than they expect if all the sex offenders decide to challenge their risk level. It will also mean a delay in posting this information on the web until the risk level determinations are done. New York may have to assign special prosecutors for this task. New York did this to themselves by making Megan's Law retroactive. Hope they budget for it.
--Navigatr1
CopWatch.com News Moderator
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Message 136719 (In Reply to Message 136708)
Posted by dp1
on Jun 29, 2004 01:11 PM | Also by dp1
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State: Florida,
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I agree Nav. This problem in New York appears to be way out of control. Now I know why Florida doesn't have all this. It seems so much more simplistic to have 2 levels and to base it on the crimes themselves. Why all the fuss with evaluations and court hearings? Is their system really all that?
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Message 136720 (In Reply to Message 136706)
inflammatory
Posted by LostTime
on Jun 29, 2004 01:15 PM | Also by LostTime
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State: Wisconsin,
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I love the syntax used in this piece. Makes it look like all these sex offenders are out on the lam hiding and using their devious talents to avoid the registry when the only avoidance taking place is the system avoiding following the constitution and getting their act together and doing the required hearings. The so's are just going about their lives.
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Message 136825 (In Reply to Message 136707)
DP1
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jul 02, 2004 05:51 AM | Also by Silverthorne
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State: Arizona,
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DP1 you ask how long to get the reviews done. Well FLA has about 300 people in the commitment center and it takes 18 months to get an evaluation. So I suppose using "government math" (like the iRS) to process 7,000 SO's would take 18 years each?
Silverthorne
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Message 136849 (In Reply to Message 136719)
dp1
Posted by Navigatr1
on Jul 03, 2004 05:22 AM | Also by Navigatr1
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But is it a judge or a jury in Florida that determines whether a sex offender is a predator or not? I think the US Supreme court ruling will mean that a jury will have to make that determination and not left solely up to a judge. A jury would have to decide if the sex offender meets the legislative definition of a predator. Florida may have to rewrite their laws as a result, and it could put current determinations in jeopardy. The ramifications of the ruling is widespread.
BLAKELY v. WASHINGTON
No. 02-1632. Argued March 23, 2004--Decided June 24, 2004
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=02-1632
So the question becomes, does a sex offender have a federal constitutional right to have a jury determine beyond a reasonable doubt all facts legally essential to the determination of a sex predator status? The question could further be extended to having a jury determine beyond a reasonable doubt all facts legally essential to the inclusion in a sex offender registry. Hopefully these questions will be brought before the courts.
--Navigatr1
CopWatch.com News Moderator
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Message 136855 (In Reply to Message 136849)
Nav
Posted by dp1
on Jul 03, 2004 11:40 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
But is it a judge or a jury in Florida that determines whether a sex offender is a predator or not? I think the US Supreme court ruling will mean that a jury will have to make that determination and not left solely up to a judge.
It is the Judge not a Jury that determines predator status. It sort of sounds more complicated than it really is. While in Court upon conviction, the State simply files a notice if the Defendant meets the criteria of a pred. It's pretty much automatic. I never heard of a situation where a person was noticed and the Judge did not officially determine the status as a pred. It's not quite the process other states have. It's a piece of paper thrown in front of the Judge that he simply signs. There's no discussion or evaluation.
I hate the mere thought of the system getting bogged down with more red tape and processes, but maybe it shouldn't be automatic. Although, in Florida everyone is on the internet anyway, I wonder if the preds will really care one way or another. It should be interesting.
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Message 136857 (In Reply to Message 136855)
Florida Looking At A Challenge
Posted by Navigatr1
on Jul 03, 2004 01:55 PM | Also by Navigatr1
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dp1 wrote:
It is the Judge not a Jury that determines predator status. It sort of sounds more complicated than it really is. While in Court upon conviction, the State simply files a notice if the Defendant meets the criteria of a pred. It's pretty much automatic.
Sounds like Florida could be looking at a possible challenge to its system of classifying predators since a judge and not a jury is making the determination. It could throw Florida's system in legal limbo should it be successfully challenged. Florida would have to send notices out to all those that they classified as predators that they have a legal right to challenge their predator status by jury in court. Could end up being costly for Florida. The Florida legislature better start rewriting thier statutes so that it is a jury who makes the predator classification.
dp1 wrote:
I hate the mere thought of the system getting bogged down with more red tape and processes, but maybe it shouldn't be automatic. Although, in Florida everyone is on the internet anyway, I wonder if the preds will really care one way or another. It should be interesting.
Remember that it was the system that created all this red tape in the first place. If Florida got rid of the registries, all the red tape would disappear. So what is happening in the courts is a direct consequence of the red tape already in place. You are correct that it should be interesting to watch. I hope that one of the Florida sex predators does challenge thier predator status by requesting that a jury should have made the determination, and not a judge. Maybe one of them will take it even further by asking the question of the courts that a jury should make the determination whether they appear on a registry. While Florida may require all felons to register, it may end up that a jury decides who ends up on the online registry. Either way it should be interesting to watch.
--Navigatr1
CopWatch.com News Moderator
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Message 136899 (In Reply to Message 136857)
Nav
Posted by dp1
on Jul 04, 2004 01:31 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
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State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I've thought about the preds that I personally know and none of them went to jury. They simply pled out accepting the terms of probation and sex pred status. I tend to think that it might not be quite the burden one might think. Surely, there must be preds that went to jury trial and did not accept a plea, but they would be few and far between. Even though few cases in the big sceme of things go to trial, the process would still be a pain in the butt and cuase stress on the system.
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Message 136905 (In Reply to Message 136899)
dp1
Posted by Navigatr1
on Jul 04, 2004 05:57 PM | Also by Navigatr1
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dp1 wrote:
Even though few cases in the big sceme of things go to trial, the process would still be a pain in the butt and cuase stress on the system.
You are correct that the process would be a pain in the butt; however, the problem was created by the system in the first place. So it is the system to blame. Get rid of the registries and the predator status, and the problem would disappear as would an undo stress on the system. They knew this when they created the registries.
--Navigatr1
CopWatch.com News Moderator
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Thread
136706, admin, Jun 28, 2004 11:34 PM [Introduction]
136707, dp1, Jun 29, 2004 03:52 AM
136825, Silverthorne, Jul 02, 2004 05:51 AM [DP1]
136708, Navigatr1, Jun 29, 2004 05:01 AM
136719, dp1, Jun 29, 2004 01:11 PM
136849, Navigatr1, Jul 03, 2004 05:22 AM [dp1]
136855, dp1, Jul 03, 2004 11:40 AM [Nav]
136857, Navigatr1, Jul 03, 2004 01:55 PM [Florida Looking At A Challenge]
136899, dp1, Jul 04, 2004 01:31 PM [Nav]
136905, Navigatr1, Jul 04, 2004 05:57 PM [dp1]
136720, LostTime, Jun 29, 2004 01:15 PM [inflammatory]
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