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Forum: In the News
Thread (Discussion): [scotsman.com] Man jailed two years over huge child porn collection - Sorry
Message 126547
Introduction
Posted by admin
on Jan 30, 2004 11:08 AM | Also by admin
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Discuss the article Man jailed two years over huge child porn collection, by Andrew Black, which appeared on scotsman.com on January 30, 2004.
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Message 126548 (In Reply to Message 126547)
Posted by steve
on Jan 30, 2004 04:10 PM | Also by steve
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Two year in jail and one year of post-release supervision!?!?!? That's it!!! Silverthorne, are you fuming, knowing that Arizona imposes, what, a 5 year sentence PER IMAGE found? You've probably said it before, but what do you consider an appropriate sentence in a case like this and what about requirements post-release?
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Message 126568 (In Reply to Message 126548)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 30, 2004 10:40 PM | Also by Silverthorne
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Well it would've been 4.3 MILLION YEARS in prison here in Arizona with our mandatory 10 years per picture deal. I guess he would've been able to cop a plea here down to something more reasonable like 10,000 years?
Silverthorne
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Message 126578 (In Reply to Message 126547)
Daily Express Scotland UK
Posted by tessa
on Jan 31, 2004 01:07 AM | Also by tessa
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The story is in the newspaper I have named in the post title. Some of you may want to read the full story. It is sickening.
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Message 126580 (In Reply to Message 126547)
Excuses
Posted by tessa
on Jan 31, 2004 01:11 AM | Also by tessa
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Every time these perverts are caught in the act ,they say they were abused as children. They use that excuse to get a more lenient sentence. Even if this was true, all the more reason to not do what they are doing. They must know what the victims are going through then. Any excuse to save their own hides. I am sorry but it does not wash with me.
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Message 126596 (In Reply to Message 126547)
Curious about something?
Posted by Silverthorne
on Jan 31, 2004 04:21 AM | Also by Silverthorne
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"Appearing from custody at Arbroath Sheriff Court, Perrie, who had admitted making indecent photographs or pseudo-photographs at addresses in Forfar and Letham, Angus, between May 1999 and December 2002, was placed on the Sex Offenders’ Register for ten years. "
It says he was "making" these pictures yet he only got two years? Well if he was making them why wouldn't the sentence be longer? Then again what is a "pseudo-photograph"? Were theres morphed or computer generated images? Did they even involve real kids?
Silverthorne
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Message 126615 (In Reply to Message 126596)
That's My Point
Posted by dp1
on Jan 31, 2004 04:09 PM | Also by dp1
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It says he was "making" these pictures yet he only got two years? Well if he was making them why wouldn't the sentence be longer? Then again what is a "pseudo-photograph"? Were theres morphed or computer generated images? Did they even involve real kids?
I can't believe morphed pictures alone would result in a jail sentence. How bizarre. We simulate murders,rapes and everything else on TV and I don't see any movie stars or Hollywood producers going to jail. Maybe the porn industry isn't quite as profitable or powerful as the movie business. I bet HP would know.
DP1
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Message 126656 (In Reply to Message 126615)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Feb 01, 2004 12:45 AM | Also by Silverthorne
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State: Arizona,
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"I can't believe morphed pictures alone would result in a jail sentence. "
They do here. The lastest childporn bill congress passed included them (again). I remember a couple of years ago some headmaster at an exclusive school was arrested. They found adult porn with boys faces pasted on them and arrested him for that. He was molesting also and was eventually convicted.
Silverthorne
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Message 126692 (In Reply to Message 126615)
God! give me patience
Posted by tessa
on Feb 01, 2004 04:10 PM | Also by tessa
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DPI,do you really think that the sicko was not doing any harm by making his sick photographs? He used child images to gratify himself. I really despair at some peoples attitude to paedophilia and porn. Are we becoming immune to the how wrong this all is? What adults do behind closed door with each others consent, is not my business, but when children are involved we should all care and protect them.
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Message 126710 (In Reply to Message 126692)
Tessa
Posted by Silverthorne
on Feb 01, 2004 07:16 PM | Also by Silverthorne
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State: Arizona,
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"What adults do behind closed door with each others consent, is not my business, but when children are involved we should all care and protect them."
Tessa I agree with you 100% (although try telling the moral religous right to stay out of peoples bedrooms!). But what about cases where children are NOT involved? I mean "virtual porn"?
I'm starting a new thread entitled VIRTUAL PORN - CRIME OR NOT?. Please continue this discussion there I'm interested to see what people think really constitutes porn. The new thread will be in the GENERAL section here.
Silverthorne
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Message 126731 (In Reply to Message 126596)
Pseudo-photographs
Posted by steve
on Feb 01, 2004 10:15 PM | Also by steve
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It says he was "making" these pictures yet he only got two years? Well if he was making them why wouldn't the sentence be longer? Then again what is a "pseudo-photograph"? Were theres morphed or computer generated images? Did they even involve real kids?
Note that it says he admitted to making such photos, but it doesn't state how many of the 400,000 photos of child porn they found in his possession were "pseudo-photographs". Let's not forget he also had over 15,000 video clips of child porn. The article also didn't say that he was convicted of anything related to the pseudo-photographs.
This page Pseduo-photographs discusses the UK's Protection of Children Act's use of the term "pseudo-photograph". An excerpt follows:
A pseudo-photograph is a photo-realistic image that has been created by non-photographic means. In Blackstone’s ‘Textbook on Civil Liberties’ (now published by Oxford University Press, ISBN 0199255148), Richard Stone says: ...The concern is with the possibility, facilitated by new computer technology, that a photograph can be manipulated so that, for example, a child’s face can be superimposed on an adult’s body, or vice versa, or the appearance of physical characteristics can be altered. The resulting picture may be indistinguishable from a real photograph...
The page is actually pretty long and I haven't read it all. I've read about plenty of people who have edited photos to put an adult's head on a child's body, a child's head on an adult's body, insert a nude photo of themselves into a photo of a child, add male genetalia to a photo of a child, edit a photo so it appears the child is committing a sex act, etc. Along with completely computer-generated life-like images of children that's what I think of when I hear "pseudo-photo", but I'm not sure which fall under the UK's definition.
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Message 126784 (In Reply to Message 126692)
Tessa
Posted by dp1
on Feb 03, 2004 02:29 AM | Also by dp1
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DPI,do you really think that the sicko was not doing any harm by making his sick photographs? He used child images to gratify himself.
That's sick indeed. But is it really a grave crime? Can you describe the victim impact in this case? I had the impression that he was making pictures...meaning no victim used or abused.
Are we becoming immune to the how wrong this all is?
Not at all. It's disgusting and sick. But is it really a felony? A grave crime?
Are people becoming immune to what a felony crime is and the fact that they are punishable by incarceration in prison?
How can people put CP that wasn't even generated with a real victim in the same category as other felonies, ie. rape, murder, child molestation, armed robbery?
DP1
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Message 126814 (In Reply to Message 126784)
Posted by Silverthorne
on Feb 03, 2004 05:47 AM | Also by Silverthorne
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"How can people put CP that wasn't even generated with a real victim in the same category as other felonies, ie. rape, murder, child molestation, armed robbery? "
They do under the mistaken belief that CP causes sexual abuse.
Now I've gone on record as saying that masturbating to pictures of kids is BAD and will reinfoce a deviant fantasy (thats right out of the textbooks and I agree). I will add though that for some thats ALL they'll ever do. I don't really see it as CAUSING sexual abuse like some would claim.
I mean looking at the extreme right wingers who claim adult pornography leads to rape. We'd have 20,000,000 in prison right now for sexual assault crimes if that were true.
Silverthorne
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Message 126833 (In Reply to Message 126784)
Posted by orolan
on Feb 03, 2004 07:47 PM | Also by orolan
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Are people becoming immune to what a felony crime is
Yes, they are. "Tough on crime" has elevated the severity of offenses to the point that so many crimes are felonies that the distinction is lost. When a person can get 4 DUI's without it being a felony, but some poor slob who transposed his apartment number on an SO registration form commits a felony and gets 5 years, something is wrong.
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Message 126985 (In Reply to Message 126547)
Scottish Paper,
Posted by tessa
on Feb 08, 2004 12:01 AM | Also by tessa
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I buy the "Scottish daily express". Friday 6th February has a piece by Mitchell Symons about web paedophilia and porn. He and others in our newspapers are bringing this subject out in the open. They are demanding that servers take all porn from their sites. Just thought some of you may want to read it. I was looking to post this as a "New Thread" but cannot find where to click on "New thread".
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Message 127007 (In Reply to Message 126985)
Posted by steve
on Feb 08, 2004 08:22 PM | Also by steve
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I was looking to post this as a "New Thread" but cannot find where to click on "New thread".
tessa, sorry for the confusion. There isn't a way for users to start a new thread in the In the News forum. If you send me the URL of the article I'll add it to the News Archive and a thread will be created automatically for the article which you can post to.
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Message 127012 (In Reply to Message 126985)
Sorry
Posted by tessa
on Feb 08, 2004 11:11 PM | Also by tessa
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Sorry Steve I thought the article may be on the web but I cannot find it.
It is an interesting article. I will scan it some time this week and copy it on here.
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Thread
126547, admin, Jan 30, 2004 11:08 AM [Introduction]
126548, steve, Jan 30, 2004 04:10 PM
126568, Silverthorne, Jan 30, 2004 10:40 PM
126578, tessa, Jan 31, 2004 01:07 AM [Daily Express Scotland UK]
126580, tessa, Jan 31, 2004 01:11 AM [Excuses]
126596, Silverthorne, Jan 31, 2004 04:21 AM [Curious about something?]
126615, dp1, Jan 31, 2004 04:09 PM [That's My Point]
126656, Silverthorne, Feb 01, 2004 12:45 AM
126692, tessa, Feb 01, 2004 04:10 PM [God! give me patience]
126710, Silverthorne, Feb 01, 2004 07:16 PM [Tessa]
126784, dp1, Feb 03, 2004 02:29 AM [Tessa]
126814, Silverthorne, Feb 03, 2004 05:47 AM
126833, orolan, Feb 03, 2004 07:47 PM
126731, steve, Feb 01, 2004 10:15 PM [Pseudo-photographs]
126985, tessa, Feb 08, 2004 12:01 AM [Scottish Paper,]
127007, steve, Feb 08, 2004 08:22 PM
127012, tessa, Feb 08, 2004 11:11 PM [Sorry]
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