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Forum: General
Thread (Discussion): To: Marta Continued
Message 120054
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 18, 2003 06:45 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Author: marta (Hostname/IP logged)
Date: 10-17-03 19:28
Survivor Forever wrote:
> Marta,
> You are so correct.
> Ironically, if we all look and the number of women who post
> to this board alone, who are looking for help in a rape
> situation., what is the first thing MOST of the posters
> say????They don’t believe them at all.
>
> Survivor
While I see what you're saying, I think it's important to remember the composition of a community when evaluating its behavior. Many of the people who post here are legitimately afraid of the justice system because of their sexual proclivities and the hysteria that surrounds sex.
I do agree that some others on this board seem to have . . . how should we say it, irrational, hysterical streaks? But even those people seem only to be reacting poorly to the experiences that they've had. It is a common enough error to assume that what you see around you is the same stuff of which the universe is composed.
What can you do?
_____________________________
Marta & anyone
Take them for their word. The reason I am here today is due to looking for information on my rapiest. It was just dumb luck I found this board. I can't be the only one.
Here is my proof.
http://www.sexcriminals.com/news/11437/
Survivor
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Message 120083 (In Reply to Message 120054)
Sexist comment??
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 19, 2003 02:59 AM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
SurvivorForever says:
>>>>
...what is the first thing MOST of the posters
> say????They don’t believe them at all.
>>>>
Name one poster... cut and paste comments from MOST of the posters on this board that do not belive rapes happen. I was disgusted with that sexist comment. I've never seen evidence that ANYONE on this board didn't believe rapes happen.
However, there has been proof shown where women have lied about rapes. That is also a fact. False rape claims are frequent.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120105 (In Reply to Message 120054)
What am I missing?
Posted by orolan
on Oct 19, 2003 04:11 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I saw this comment on the old board, also.
"Here is my proof.
http://www.sexcriminals.com/news/11437/ "
I read it, and I still don't get it. What is this "proving"? Are you the "victim" in that case? Elaborate, please. Because I'm totally lost.
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Message 120128 (In Reply to Message 120083)
Take A Look
Posted by DoTheCrimeDoTheTime
on Oct 19, 2003 11:32 PM | Also by DoTheCrimeDoTheTime
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I think HP if you take a look at the post here, when victims post their story, very few, if any respond.
However, take a look at Orlans story, and look at the number of repsonse. Also, there has been other cases in which victims post and they get bashed-far more (in my opinion) than those who have offended or support different view on sex crimes.
I posted to survivors story, making note of the fact that hardly anyone responded -like DP1 and myself, who are involved with victims almost daily. Don't know what happened to that post - it never made it (Steve-can you help here).
Not bashing anyone, just making an observation.
DTCDTT
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Message 120130 (In Reply to Message 120128)
Posted by steve
on Oct 19, 2003 11:41 PM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
> Don't know what happened to that post - it never made it
> (Steve-can you help here).
All posts made to this board have been approved and are visible, except for 2 which were rejected because they were duplicates of other approved messages. It's possible that there's a bug that prevented yours from being saved to the database. Please repost it.
BTW, I haven't announced it yet, but there's a URL which lists each user's post history. Here is yours.
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Message 120136 (In Reply to Message 120083)
Reply to what was actually posted
Posted by marta
on Oct 20, 2003 12:32 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
H. Pierce wrote:
I've never seen evidence that ANYONE on this board didn't believe rapes happen.
That's not what she wrote. She said that, when people post to this board about their rape experiences, the response from the board community is often unnecessarily suspicious and defensive.
Hmmm . . . much like your irrelevant response to her message.
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Message 120139 (In Reply to Message 120128)
Posted by simon
on Oct 20, 2003 01:14 AM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
During the Christmas holidays last year a friend invited me to her home for dinner. Me, my friend and her landlord (a lady of about 70).
We had a fine meal. I ate too much. After dinner while having coffee, my friend told of being molested and raped by a man (a family friend) when she was 14. It was a sad story. And I expressed all those comforing noises that people make. You know...to show my concern and empathy.
I was so moved by her experience and caught up in the night that I decided to share my abuse (at 11 & 12) with both of them. This is something that I don't normally do. It's been many years ago. I don't know what I expected from them. Not much. Maybe some discussion, some empathy... What I got was laughter. My friend started laughing and shrugged off my experience. I must have looked stunned or something because she felt the need to justify herself. She explained to me that I was a man and so it didn't matter. Apparently she felt that only girls and women can be raped and molested. Talk about sexist. I left pretty quickly after that and haven't spoken with her since. And I have no desire to ever again.
It's hard for me to have sympathy for women when they ask for it but don't seem able to give it.
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Message 120156 (In Reply to Message 120105)
orolan
Posted by myoung
on Oct 20, 2003 04:30 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
How can you be lost? The fishing trip, the lake, they met earlier that day, he drugged her then assaulted her, he drove a truck.....ring any bells. I'm just being a goof but it is definitely her story. The news gave the less detailed version. Maybe when listening to her story we never imagined him to be homeless?
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Message 120170 (In Reply to Message 120139)
Simon
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 20, 2003 05:56 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Please understand you were dealing with a 70 or so year old woman. Depending on her upbringing, in her day, men would never admit rape. Therefore no one ever talked about that. It was a different time.
SurvivorForever
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Message 120192 (In Reply to Message 120170)
Posted by simon
on Oct 20, 2003 03:02 PM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
I wasn't clear I suppose. The landlord was 70ish. She was very nice and understanding. The 'friend' was 50, about 8 years older than me.
And in any event that time was then this is now. That excuse would never fly for a man...it doesn't fly for a woman.
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Message 120248 (In Reply to Message 120128)
Not exactly
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 21, 2003 02:02 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
DTCDTT says:
>>>
I think HP if you take a look at the post here, when victims post their story, very few, if any respond.
>>>
I haven't really noticed this. I have seen quite a few victim stories rape or otherwise that have received a lot of replies.
I think what you and survivor are missing is that the posts from victims that have little response are those from 'one post wonders' that never have the curtesy to reply to questions by those that do ask questions. In the case of Orolan, he is a regular poster who people know will answer.
I think victims and offenders both get equal time here. Anything else is in the mind of the reader.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120250 (In Reply to Message 120139)
I agree
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 21, 2003 02:13 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Well said, simon. I think many believe that women can’t rape a man. I think the same goes for spousal abuse. I’ve known a few men who were beat by their wives. The wives got away with it because they knew the men were raised not to hit women. Perhaps its time women were raised not to hit men.
The same goes for sexual harassment. At one client site there was a group of women that would male bash all the time. One of the office guys got tired of hearing it every break and turned them in to HR. He was listened to politely, told that someone would tell them to stop but didn’t take his complaint. Men are supposed to accept it I guess. However, when a male office worker told a joke about women, one of the ladies in the group turned him in. There was no ‘we’ll talk to him about it’.. it was immediately documented, and he was charged with sexual harassment. I think corporate society like the rest of society has a long way to go.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120251 (In Reply to Message 120136)
That isn't what she said.
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 21, 2003 02:24 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
suvivor posted in this thread:
>>>
Ironically, if we all look and the number of women who post
> to this board alone, who are looking for help in a rape
> situation., what is the first thing MOST of the posters
> say????They don’t believe them at all.
>
Her intent may have been that(from the old message board) but that isn't what the above says. It says rape victims who post here find that most posters don't believe them at all. I'm not reading anything in what she wrote. Thanks for your interpretation but your response isn't what she is saying above. That is all.
marta says:
>>>
the response from the board community is often unnecessarily suspicious and defensive.
>>>>
I think that depends on what facts the 'alleged victim' gives the posters to go on. In my opinion most victims on this forum get treated with 'kid gloves' unless they present obviously flawed or biased accounts.
marta says:
>>>>
Hmmm . . . much like your irrelevant response to her message.
>>>
Awww still pouting about losing to the Kanin study. How immature.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120256 (In Reply to Message 120139)
To Simon - Empathy
Posted by dp1
on Oct 21, 2003 03:13 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Simon,
Your point is well taken and a very important one. Lack of empathy particularly towards males is by and large a major issue which I suspect contributes to the beginnings of pedophilia. I don't know if you've posted your story, but you brought out such a powerful point that I believe merits it's own thread. There have been books written on this subject which have always enlightened me.
Basically, why do we live in a society were it is so totally uncool to be a victim if you are a man? Men are supposed to be the perpetrators, right? The strong ones? The one's in control? To show a powerless moment is to be feminine, right? To show sensitivity (empathy) is to be feminine, right? It's amazing how we all have these sterotypical ideas in our heads which are as a result of our upbringing and experiences in the environment.
Bummer about your Christmas dinner with your friends. It would be normal to expect empathy from our friends and you were disappointed you didn't get what you expected. The same goes for the posters on this board that expect empathy when they post their story. They don't realize that they are posting to some people who obviously have little or no empathy for victims because they view themselves as the perpetrator. Empathy is a must for all sex offenders to learn if they expect not to re-offend.
DP1
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Message 120274 (In Reply to Message 120251)
Kanin
Posted by marta
on Oct 21, 2003 09:03 PM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I thought we were going to wait until Steve posts the Kanin study, involve everybody who cares to join in the discussion, and then go back to arguing about who said what and when, no? Or do you feel the need to get in a few more self-righteous jabs before it's no longer possible for you to do so? In that regard, I would caution you: the more you try to make yourself look like a winner, the harder you're going to fall when the study goes public.
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Message 120281 (In Reply to Message 120248)
Look At The Numbers
Posted by DoTheCrimeDoTheTime
on Oct 21, 2003 11:12 PM | Also by DoTheCrimeDoTheTime
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Orlons Story 67
Survivors Story 18
Think those numbers speak for themselves.
Most story from victims do not get the responses as the Offenders.
DTCDTT
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Message 120282 (In Reply to Message 120274)
Nothing to discuss
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 21, 2003 11:32 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
marta says:
>>>
I thought we were going to wait until Steve posts the Kanin study, involve everybody who cares to join in the discussion, and then go back to arguing about who said what and when, no?
>>>
Perhaps that is what you thought but I already stated that Steve emailed me a copy of the Kanin study. While additional comments from others is appreciated, I really don't need anyone else comments to validate my comments. I know what I read.
Now back to the topic of the thread... care to make some comments about my reply to you, or do you agree?
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120290 (In Reply to Message 120281)
DTCDTT
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 22, 2003 12:54 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
Yes and no. I am guessing I'll get close to Orolans total when I post my story this week.
I think alot of it has to do with the circumstances of his case. I mean he hardly fits the profile of an evil "sex offender" regardless of what some registry says.
I would imagine when a "regular" sex offender posts here it will be pretty "normal" to as far as reply numbers. Orolans was a unique case with some obvious faults.
Silverthorne
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Message 120293 (In Reply to Message 120281)
Doubt ratios
Posted by lj
on Oct 22, 2003 01:07 AM | Also by lj
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
What is the ratio of responses to Orolan's post that distrust his story compared to those who doubt Survivor's horrific experience?
That might have something to do with it--you think?
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Message 120294 (In Reply to Message 120281)
Posted by simon
on Oct 22, 2003 01:07 AM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
I not sure a simple count of posts means anything. Most people posting about abuse get several replies: both expressing empathy and requesting more information. Sometimes both in the same reply, somtimes one or the other. I've noticed that many posters are not forthcoming about details or post ambiguous information that naturally prompts a response asking for more information. Many, if not most, of those request for information are not answered.
As for the high number of responses to other posts -- for example the two you quote -- look at the subject matter. Generally they are subjects that provoke strong visceral replies, retorts, attacks and all the other emotionally laden responses that you would expect. The high number of these posts doesn't surprise or distress me. It's natural.
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Message 120298 (In Reply to Message 120282)
That's What You Think
Posted by marta
on Oct 22, 2003 02:25 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
H. Pierce wrote:
> Perhaps that is what you thought but I already stated that Steve
> emailed me a copy of the Kanin study.
Steve also said that he would post the study in a public place once the board got up and running. I plan to invite people to discuss it once he does. Whether you participate is entirely up to you.
> While additional comments from others is appreciated, I really
> don't need anyone else comments to validate my comments. I
> know what I read.
If you're so full of self-confidence, why did you spend so much time defending yourself by arguing with me???? And, as it has always been, my point is that you DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU READ.
I dared you to post the entire study. You did not respond to the challenge. Perhaps you should if Steve doesn't. Perhaps I will.
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Message 120299 (In Reply to Message 120250)
Posted by marta
on Oct 22, 2003 02:31 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
H. Pierce wrote:
> Perhaps its time women were raised not to hit men.
You say this like the number of spouse beaters (of either sex) is huge. The fact is that MOST people know that hitting people is wrong. Only ignorant people in bad circumstances resort to violence.
> The same goes for sexual harassment. At one client site there
> was a group of women that would male bash all the time.
And this involved what????
> However, when a male office worker told a joke about women, one of the ladies in the group turned him in.
And the joke was???
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Message 120301 (In Reply to Message 120251)
Read More Carefully, Piercy
Posted by marta
on Oct 22, 2003 02:53 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
SURVIVOR POSTED IN THIS THREAD:
>>>
Ironically, if we all look and the number of women who post
> to this board alone, who are looking for help in a rape
> situation., what is the first thing MOST of the posters
> say????They don’t believe them at all.
TO WHICH YOU RESPONDED:
Name one poster... cut and paste comments from MOST of the posters on this board that do not belive rapes happen. I was disgusted with that sexist comment. I've never seen evidence that ANYONE on this board didn't believe rapes happen.
TO WHICH I RESPONDED:
That's not what she wrote. She said that, when people post to this board about their rape experiences, the response from the board community is often unnecessarily suspicious and defensive.
TO WHICH YOU REPLIED:
Her intent may have been that(from the old message board) but that isn't what the above says. It says rape victims who post here find that most posters don't believe them at all. I'm not reading anything in what she wrote. Thanks for your interpretation but your response isn't what she is saying above. That is all.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LET ME SUM UP:
Survivor said (in the old AND new forum) that rape victims who post about their experiences frequently meet with suspicion.
To which I replied that I could see why she thought so, but that such suspicion is understandable given the composition of the messageboard community.
Then you come in with some hysterical, IRRELEVANT, and nonsensical post accusing her of implying that the posters at sexcriminals.com don't believe that rape occurs (which wasn't her point), and suggest that she is sexist (which would only make sense if all of the posters who questioned such stories were male - which they weren't).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEXT, YOU CUT AND PASTED:
marta says:
>>>
the response from the board community is often unnecessarily suspicious and defensive.
>>>>
I think that depends on what facts the 'alleged victim' gives the posters to go on. In my opinion most victims on this forum get treated with 'kid gloves' unless they present obviously flawed or biased accounts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Too bad you have such selective reading habits. The quote of mine that you cut and pasted was my description of what Survivor thought, not what I thought. If you weren't so busy reading your own posts, you'd know that I have been one of the harshest critics of one of the posters talking about their rape experience. You would also realize that I was defending most of the people here at sexcriminals.
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Message 120304 (In Reply to Message 120298)
Hold off a week or two?
Posted by steve
on Oct 22, 2003 03:42 AM | Also by steve
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Virginia,
Country: United States |
> Steve also said that he would post the study in a public place once the board
> got up and running. I plan to invite people to discuss it once he does
I'm working on the file library for studies, reports, etc. including the Kanin document. It'll likely be in 1.5 - 2 weeks, though it could be as early as early next week. Perhaps you two can take a break from the battle to see who's right until then? I can't speak for everyone, but I'm interested in seeing how others interpret the study and statements made by both of you.
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Message 120314 (In Reply to Message 120299)
Your point??
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 22, 2003 11:45 AM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
marta says:
>>>
You say this like the number of spouse beaters (of either sex) is huge. The fact is that MOST people know that hitting people is wrong. Only ignorant people in bad circumstances resort to violence.
>>>
And you make it sound like it is trivial. There is more spouse abuse than their is rape. Go talk to a police officer and ask him/her how many domestic fights they are called out to per nite as compared to rape.
I'd say most people have been told hitting people is wrong. However, when I walk through a Wal-Mart and see a mother back-hand a child, If you take the time to look at a police log for a night and see all the domestic disturbance calls (spouse related) it makes you realize that MANY people either don't care that it's wrong or never learned it.
You are wrong that only ignorant people in bad circumstances resort to violence. Check out domestic disturbances at universities. Many of these kids aren't ignorant nor were they in bad circumstances.. For many, they saw their mom or dad be beat and they end up doing the same when they have a family.
More sad is that many of these spouses keep coming back to this person. If they divorce they seem to always find the same types.
marta asks:
>>>
And this involved what????
>>>
Making crude comments about males... making sexist comments about their gender, etc.
marta asks:
>>>
And the joke was???
>>>
It was a dumb blond joke
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120315 (In Reply to Message 120298)
Ohh come now...
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 22, 2003 12:27 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
marta says:
>>>
If you're so full of self-confidence, why did you spend so much time defending yourself by arguing with me???? And, as it has always been, my point is that you DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU READ.
>>>
If I remember correctly you were the one that started the thread about it being a sham..... you were the one that was hell-bent on defending what turned out to be a false interpretation of his findings on your part. I will always argue with people that spread false information. Now in regards to knowing what I read...considering you are zero for two in reading comprehension so far, I'll just consider the source.
marta says:
>>>
I dared you to post the entire study. You did not respond to the challenge. Perhaps you should if Steve doesn't. Perhaps I will.
>>>
I discounted your dare since Steve already stated he was going to include it in the new board. I knew that if anyone was REALLY that interested in it, they would email Steve and request it.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120317 (In Reply to Message 120314)
You misunderstood
Posted by marta
on Oct 22, 2003 02:06 PM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
H. Pierce says:
>You are wrong that only ignorant people in bad circumstances >resort to violence. Check out domestic disturbances at >universities.
And you should check out the definition of the word ignorant. Education level doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. And you can be rich as all get out and still be in bad circumstances.
You sure assume some odd defintions of words.
H. Pierce says:
>Making crude comments about males... making sexist comments >about their gender, etc.
Can you be more specific? I'm wondering because sexual harassment has a VERY SPECIFIC definition.
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Message 120321 (In Reply to Message 120281)
Yes. Lets look at the numbers, DTCDTT
Posted by orolan
on Oct 22, 2003 03:52 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
"Orolans Story 67"
25 of these posts are by me. Another 18 are by DP1, because he and I have been engaged in a lively debate on several issues within the story. Eliminate our debate and the numbers aren't anywhere near as bad as you allude. Incidentally, NONE of the posts are by you.
"Survivors Story 18"
1 of these posts is by me. Once again, NONE are by you.
If you have nothing to say about either story, why do you even care how many other people do?
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Message 120337 (In Reply to Message 120315)
We'll see
Posted by marta
on Oct 23, 2003 12:01 AM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I've made copies of all of the related posts (going back to Aug. 2003). Once Steve posts the study, we'll see who has what reading comprehension.
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Message 120341 (In Reply to Message 120301)
Two Answers
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 23, 2003 02:37 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Marta,
You are correct in what I was implying. I NEVER meant ANY of my comments to be sexist. Women and men alike, on this board, question when a supposed rape victim comes forward to the board. I am guilty of that behavior myself. I am a woman. And I am not sexist. If anything
HP - You called them “One Post Wonders”?
Would anyone going through a horrific situation, that came here looking for information that might help her or him come forward in a rape situation, (with the exception of me) ever post again with the torment they receive?
I think not. Some of you think (some = less then 3) that being a “Regular Poster” means you know everything and every situation. I would even go so far as to say that you think you own the board. If they did come back – would you rip them apart and continue to bully them until they left anyway?
They have other options and don’t need the sarcasm. Give me one reason why they would want to post again. Or – better yet - maybe – They got their advice –good or bad, and didn’t need anymore.
SurvivorForever
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Message 120402 (In Reply to Message 120248)
H. P. and silver...no resonse
Posted by myoung
on Oct 24, 2003 05:27 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I asked a bunch of questons to the both of you......no response as of yet:( Did you think I was a one post wonder? You are only a continual victim if you allow! I do not aspire to that allowance:) Just think of me as gender neutral, non victim....how's that?
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Message 120407 (In Reply to Message 120054)
Irrational?
Posted by tessa
on Oct 24, 2003 01:09 PM | Also by tessa
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United Kingdom |
I do not think most of the fears quoted on here are irrational. We have a uk wide text news on our Television. Because my family is scattered around Britain ,I read all news from all areas. You can guarantee most nights there is a story of a rapist or a paedophile. Why are there so many?
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Message 120412 (In Reply to Message 120407)
Why are there so many?
Posted by orolan
on Oct 24, 2003 03:47 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
There are no more rapists or pedophiles now than there were in the past. You see the stories on the news all the time now because it is the current "hot topic". Eventually the public will become numb to the stories, and the media will move on to some other topic.
Being in the UK, I'm sure you can imagine what would be on your TV every night if Prince Harry started dating Britney Spears!
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Message 120422 (In Reply to Message 120317)
No, I understood
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 24, 2003 08:03 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
marta says:
>>>
And you should check out the definition of the word ignorant. Education level doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it. And you can be rich as all get out and still be in bad circumstances.
>>>
I understand the definition quite well. What I do though was give you a sample that even those at universities that one would expect to be exposed to newer-brighter ideas, etc can still be very ignorant.
marta asks:
>>>
Can you be more specific? I'm wondering because sexual harassment has a VERY SPECIFIC definition.
>>>>
I wasn't told what specific comments or jokes he referred too when he met with HR. I was just an IT consultant on site. But I do know that about three or four days before he talked to HR he was sitting at a table next to ours. One of the Ladies made a comment about how worthless her new boyfriend's sex was. This led to a discussion about men and sex in general. One of the ladies said something "...well men are just rutting animals when it comes to love making anyway". It was at this point that this guy told them from his table (loud enough for all us to hear) that he found their comments offensive and asked them to stop. They moved further away from him but went right back in male bashing.
On the occasion that a male told a blond joke, the woman that filed the complaint never said anything to him about stopping.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120423 (In Reply to Message 120301)
Wrong again, marta
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 24, 2003 08:22 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
marta attempts:
>>>
LET ME SUM UP:
Survivor said (in the old AND new forum) that rape victims who post about their experiences frequently meet with suspicion.
>>>>
Your lack of details will be your worst enemy if and when you pass your bar exam.
Her statement on this board DOES NOT SAY "experiences frequently meet with suspicion"
She said in this thread "...what is the first thing MOST of the posters
> say????They don’t believe them at all.
>>>
I hate to burst your bubble again but she clearly said THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEM AT ALL. That is a far cry from "frequently met with suspicion".
Suspicion indicates that the person's mind isn't necessarily made up, but that they question something about the statement(s).
If you say someone doesn't BELIEVE IT AT ALL.. that implies that their mind has already been made up.
So while the two may have the same meaning to you... they sure don't to me. Saying I'm suspicious about comments in a document means there is room for discussion and/or clarification. If I say I don't believe your document at all... that isn't the same at all.
H. Pierce (glad to point these facts out for marta's education)
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Message 120424 (In Reply to Message 120341)
You answered my question, survivor
Posted by HPierce
on Oct 24, 2003 08:44 PM | Also by HPierce
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
Survivor says:
>>>
Marta,
You are correct in what I was implying. I NEVER meant ANY of my comments to be sexist.
>>>
I can agree to that was what you may have implied. However, it certainly wasn't how it was written. That is my point. Marta felt the need to dig by saying I didn't interpret it correctly, which is wrong. I intrerpreted it correctly the way it was writen, but was willing to accept that it wasn't your intent upon clarification.
survivor asks:
>>>
HP - You called them “One Post Wonders”?
Would anyone going through a horrific situation, that came here looking for information that might help her or him come forward in a rape situation, (with the exception of me) ever post again with the torment they receive?
>>>
That depends. If all they wanted to do was air their frustration that is one thing. If however, others have questions or ask for clarification of something the rape victim is seeking.... and the rape victim never replies back... yes they are one-post wonders.
Torment by whom? Us? Questions don't equate to torment.
suvivor says:
>>>
.... Some of you think (some = less then 3) that being a “Regular Poster” means you know everything and every situation.
>>>
I don't get that sense so I must not be one of two that you speak of.
survivor says:
>>>
...would you rip them apart and continue to bully them until they left anyway?
They have other options and don’t need the sarcasm. Give me one reason why they would want to post again. Or – better yet - maybe – They got their advice –good or bad, and didn’t need anymore.
>>>
Ahhh so you want us to all accept whatever a rape victim tells us.... without questions or reservations???? If a rape victim says "I was raped and the police didn't care enough to even look for the attacker"..... don't you think that this type of statement is going to make people ask questions? I don't call that being a bully.. I call that wanting some additional information to fully understand her situation.
H. Pierce (proud pedosexual)
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Message 120438 (In Reply to Message 120412)
hot topic?
Posted by PVulcan
on Oct 25, 2003 02:05 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
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Orolan you don't really think that sexual violence is a recent hot topic? Sexual violence has been happening for forever. The first studies/research really only began in 1979 about sexual violence. It was at that time the research showed the rapes/assaults were not being committed by the strangers hiding in the bush with a knife, but by someone that the victim knew,be it date acquaintance or family/friend/associate.
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Message 120441 (In Reply to Message 120423)
Marta - You are still correct.
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 25, 2003 02:59 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Marta - You know, your still correct.
HP
Hummm – I guess Reasonable Doubt in your mind, for anyone who posts would be correct, HP? Although, you would cop that with anything that did not fit in your way of thinking. So if there is one shred of doubt in your mind – the poster was not raped? Kind of a double edge here. Something to think about. Ok - thought about it. HP - your making whine out of grape leaves.
SurvivorForever
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Message 120456 (In Reply to Message 120438)
Hi P Vulcan
Posted by myoung
on Oct 25, 2003 04:06 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
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State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
If you go to some of the better serial killer websites (educates you on characterisitics and stories, etc.), you will see that there is evidence of study with regard to sexual violence way back in the late 1800's. They just didn't have the name serial rapist or serial yet but sexually violent crimes were news that didn't make is as far about the country as it does now. You're right, this crap has been happening since the dawn of time. Nothing new....just more media coverage.
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Message 120458 (In Reply to Message 120456)
Posted by PVulcan
on Oct 25, 2003 04:55 AM | Also by PVulcan
| Gender: N/A,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I understand what you're saying myoung, what I'm referring to is the studies that actually began to show that MOST assaults were not done by serial killer/rapist, but someone the victim knew. The serial folks are a small percentage of the rapes that occur. Well I guess when the average Joe Schmo gets busted in his community, you know the stand up pillar of the community, we find that newsworthy. But then again it always amazes the incidents that don't get in the news.
Locally 2 weeks ago a 79 y.o woman was brutally raped and that wasn't news worthy. Go figure!
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Message 120470 (In Reply to Message 120438)
Hot Topic
Posted by orolan
on Oct 25, 2003 02:09 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
By "hot topic" I didn't necessarily mean the "topic of the week". I know sexual violence has been going on for a long time. But it is only in recent years that it has become a recurring topic in the media and in the legislatures.
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Message 120471 (In Reply to Message 120458)
news worthy
Posted by orolan
on Oct 25, 2003 02:18 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
"Locally 2 weeks ago a 79 y.o woman was brutally raped and that wasn't news worthy. Go figure!"
I think this shows some of the "numbness" I alluded to. Eventually either the public grows weary of a topic or the events become so commonplace that the media stops reporting it.
Where I grew up and spent my early twenties, a murder was big news. Front page for days. Then I moved to L.A. for a while. Never saw a murder on the front page there. Murders would rate a small 2x2 box back on page 18 of Section D unless they either involved a famous person or it was a "mass" murder. The reason was that murders were a commonplace event. 20 people a day got murdered in the 'hood or the barrio. Nobody wanted to read about it. So the media didn't report it.
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Message 120473 (In Reply to Message 120470)
Posted by PVulcan
on Oct 25, 2003 04:30 PM | Also by PVulcan
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I couldn't agree with you more orolan. We have become a society numbed and also being the nature of sexual violence, it comes with the feeling of discomfort and disgust. Most people are not comfortable discussing sex, whether it be with their partners or children, so to discuss sexual violence is something we would just rather not do. The problem with that though is that is exactly what abusers rely on, the fact that the victim is too afraid, ashamed and self blaming to discuss it, or report it for that matter.
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Message 120475 (In Reply to Message 120423)
Posted by marta
on Oct 25, 2003 05:41 PM | Also by marta
| Gender: Female,
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H. Pierce wrote:
>>>
Your lack of details will be your worst enemy if and when you pass your bar exam.
>>>
And your inability to read and correctly process even the simplest writing makes me wonder how, and if, you ever actually made it through college at all, and if you did, exactly what kind of college it was.
>>>
Her statement on this board DOES NOT SAY "experiences frequently meet with suspicion"
>>>
I never quoted her as saying that. The above quote was my characterization of what she said. Do you know what characterization means???
>>>
She said in this thread "...what is the first thing MOST of the posters
say????They don’t believe them at all.
I hate to burst your bubble again but she clearly said THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEM AT ALL. That is a far cry from "frequently met with suspicion".
>>>
I characterized her statement as such because the overarching point was about her frustration with the level of disbelief such stories are met with, as compared to the level of compassion extended to people writing about the trials and tribulations of being a sexual offender or pedophile, regardless of the level of credibility of either kind of post. Whether I thought she was being completely accurate or totally rational is another matter. It's called being generous with someone in an emotional crisis, H. Pierce. You, of course, wouldn't know anything about that because you only ever think about yourself.
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Message 120522 (In Reply to Message 120473)
Posted by orolan
on Oct 26, 2003 06:17 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
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I agree. So we have a dilemma. Keep it "in the closet", and the predators run wild. Bring it out of the closet and into the mainstream, and there is a huge public outcrying, followed by a "the public likes this" attitude by the media. So they beat us with stories to the point that we are numbed about it and take it back into the closet because we don't want it all over the news and the Net. Now we've gone full circle.
A delicate balance needs to be achieved, but I have no idea how.
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Thread
120054, SurvivorForever, Oct 18, 2003 06:45 AM
120083, HPierce, Oct 19, 2003 02:59 AM [Sexist comment??]
120128, DoTheCrimeDoTheTime, Oct 19, 2003 11:32 PM [Take A Look]
120130, steve, Oct 19, 2003 11:41 PM
120139, simon, Oct 20, 2003 01:14 AM
120170, SurvivorForever, Oct 20, 2003 05:56 AM [Simon]
120192, simon, Oct 20, 2003 03:02 PM
120250, HPierce, Oct 21, 2003 02:13 PM [I agree]
120299, marta, Oct 22, 2003 02:31 AM
120314, HPierce, Oct 22, 2003 11:45 AM [Your point??]
120317, marta, Oct 22, 2003 02:06 PM [You misunderstood]
120422, HPierce, Oct 24, 2003 08:03 PM [No, I understood]
120256, dp1, Oct 21, 2003 03:13 PM [To Simon - Empathy]
120248, HPierce, Oct 21, 2003 02:02 PM [Not exactly]
120281, DoTheCrimeDoTheTime, Oct 21, 2003 11:12 PM [Look At The Numbers]
120290, Silverthorne, Oct 22, 2003 12:54 AM [DTCDTT]
120293, lj, Oct 22, 2003 01:07 AM [Doubt ratios]
120294, simon, Oct 22, 2003 01:07 AM
120321, orolan, Oct 22, 2003 03:52 PM [Yes. Lets look at the numbers, DTCDTT]
120402, myoung, Oct 24, 2003 05:27 AM [H. P. and silver...no resonse]
120136, marta, Oct 20, 2003 12:32 AM [Reply to what was actually posted]
120251, HPierce, Oct 21, 2003 02:24 PM [That isn't what she said.]
120274, marta, Oct 21, 2003 09:03 PM [Kanin]
120282, HPierce, Oct 21, 2003 11:32 PM [Nothing to discuss]
120298, marta, Oct 22, 2003 02:25 AM [That's What You Think]
120304, steve, Oct 22, 2003 03:42 AM [Hold off a week or two?]
120315, HPierce, Oct 22, 2003 12:27 PM [Ohh come now...]
120337, marta, Oct 23, 2003 12:01 AM [We'll see]
120301, marta, Oct 22, 2003 02:53 AM [Read More Carefully, Piercy]
120341, SurvivorForever, Oct 23, 2003 02:37 AM [Two Answers]
120424, HPierce, Oct 24, 2003 08:44 PM [You answered my question, surv...]
120423, HPierce, Oct 24, 2003 08:22 PM [Wrong again, marta]
120441, SurvivorForever, Oct 25, 2003 02:59 AM [Marta - You are still ...]
120475, marta, Oct 25, 2003 05:41 PM
120105, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 04:11 PM [What am I missing?]
120156, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 04:30 AM [orolan]
120157, Rejected
120407, tessa, Oct 24, 2003 01:09 PM [Irrational?]
120412, orolan, Oct 24, 2003 03:47 PM [Why are there so many?]
120438, PVulcan, Oct 25, 2003 02:05 AM [hot topic?]
120456, myoung, Oct 25, 2003 04:06 AM [Hi P Vulcan]
120458, PVulcan, Oct 25, 2003 04:55 AM
120471, orolan, Oct 25, 2003 02:18 PM [news worthy]
120470, orolan, Oct 25, 2003 02:09 PM [Hot Topic]
120473, PVulcan, Oct 25, 2003 04:30 PM
120522, orolan, Oct 26, 2003 06:17 PM
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