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Forum: General
Thread (Discussion): Should bad parents be allowed to have children? Registry?
Message 120016
Do we need a registry for bad parents to prevent them from having kids?
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 17, 2003 06:52 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031007/ap_on_re_us/son_s_suicide_trial_4
This is a very interesting article. If you haven' t heard of the case a young boy committed suicide after being continuously teased at school over hygene. His mother was eventually convicted of "assisting" the suicide because she didn't do enough to help him.
This "mother" failed in her obligations as a parent by not providing a good safe home enviornment for the boy. Guilty as charged.
That brings up an interesting question. We have a sex offender registry and put people on probation which inclues NO CONTACT with minors.
In a case like this or the earlier "cage mom" case I posted about do you believe these people should never have kids again? If so what do we do to make sure they don't? (forced sterilization?)
Some of these parents are far more a danger to children and society then some sex offenders I've seen. I for one would like to know this person will never again fail a child.
What do you think?
Silverthorne
____________________________________________________
The original article:
Conn. Mother Convicted in Son's Suicide
Tue Oct 7, 9:31 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!
By DIANE SCARPONI, Associated Press Writer
MERIDEN, Conn. - A mother was convicted of contributing to the suicide of her 12-year-old son, a victim of bullying at school, in their filthy home because jurors agreed that she didn't do enough to help him, a juror said.
Judith Scruggs, 52, was found guilty Monday of one count of risk of injury to a minor for creating a home that prosecutors said prevented her son, J. Daniel Scruggs, from improving his poor hygiene. Testimony indicated he slept in his closet with knives and a homemade spear because he was afraid.
She faces up to 10 years in prison when she is sentenced next month.
The six-member jury, which began deliberating last Wednesday, cleared Scruggs of a charge that accused her of failing to provide her son with proper medical and psychological care and a cruelty charge.
Daniel hanged himself in his closet with a necktie in January 2002. Legal experts say the case may mark the first time a parent has been convicted of contributing to a child's suicide. The case also spawned a Connecticut law requiring schools to report bullies to authorities.
Scruggs refused to comment as she left the courthouse but her lawyer, Reese Norris, called the verdict an injustice.
"I hope the public will have an outcry that someone could be convicted of any charge ... in association with the suicide of her child," he said.
Judith Scruggs acknowledged Daniel would sometimes have body odor or bad breath and would soil himself to get out of going to school. She said she frequently told Daniel to take showers, but said she could not force him to do so.
Scruggs told police Daniel was afraid of bullies who had kicked and punched him, and he kept knives in his closet out of fear.
"These were not just pocket knives they were talking about. They were pretty big blades," said Thomas Diaz, the jury's foreman.
Jurors exchanged stories about things that happened to them or their children at school.
"I definitely didn't think she did enough. You just don't let things go," juror Vinny Giardina said.
Prosecutors said they took no joy in charging a grieving mother, but felt a jury should decide whether Scruggs' actions contributed to the boy's death. The presented evidence that there was barely room to move around the home because of clutter, the kitchen was full of dirty dishes and the toilet, bathroom sink and tub were soiled.
"Parents are responsible for the care and welfare of their children and must ensure their basic medical, emotional and psychological needs are satisfied," prosecutor James Dinnan said.
Norris, who had called the boy's death a case of "Bullycide," said prosecutors never provided evidence linking the condition of the home to the suicide. He portrayed Judith Scruggs as a loving single mother who worked two jobs — full-time as a teacher's aide in Daniel's school and part-time at a discount store.
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Message 120038 (In Reply to Message 120016)
The Mother Was a Pig
Posted by dp1
on Oct 18, 2003 02:07 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
I am glad she's facing prison. There is no doubt based on what I read in the article that she contributed to her son's suicide in a major way. The sad thing is that she should have been reported much much earlier to authorities. Seems like there would have been code violations to report, child neglect and endangerment, etc., etc, yada yada yada. She couldn't have been the only pathetic example of a poor parent in this case.
Comparing her actions to a convicted sex offender's actions is completely out of line and unexceptable. You are comparing apples and oranges in an attempt to minimize what these monsters do to our children. Yes, it's all child abuse but there are different types and degrees of abuse. There is nothing worse (exception is murder) than raping a child.
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Message 120042 (In Reply to Message 120038)
Posted by simon
on Oct 18, 2003 02:46 AM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
>>>
Comparing her actions to a convicted sex offender's actions is completely out of line and unexceptable....There is nothing worse (exception is murder) than raping a child.
>>>
Yeah, but are all sex offenses rape of a child? Consensual, but illegal, sexual contact between tennagers is worse than, say, a mother who locks her kids up in a cage for weeks and months? Touching a minors breast is worse than beating to a pulp a little girl? Tlking to a teenager about sex is worse than shaking a baby until they are reduce to a living vegetable?
So you're saying all these sexual offenses are worse than everything except murder? Get real.
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Message 120046 (In Reply to Message 120042)
Yes Simon Let's Get Real
Posted by dp1
on Oct 18, 2003 03:54 AM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
Let's see...how many people do I know who are convicted sex offenders where their only offense was talking to minors about sex? Now wait a minute...I have to really think about this one...OOPPPs the answer is ZERO. By the way, is there even a statute in any state in the US where talking about sex with minors is prohibited? If there is Simon, please feel free to enlighten me and don't be shy...let's post the statute right up here so we could all educate ourselves on how an adult could be guilty of a Felony sex crime by talking about sex with a minor...and have to register as a result.
So let's not minimize what the typical sex crime is. There might be one in a thousand who only touched a breast...or tried to penetrate but couldn't...but for the most part the sexual assaults that are actually prosecuted are very damaging.
I do not disagree that maybe one specific case somewhere in the world discussed here may not fit the typical mold of society's view of a child molester. What I oppose to is the distorted view that some on this board seem to engage in where minimizing seems to be the norm. I have worked sex crimes for over 15 years. People are committing unspeakable crimes every single day. I have not seen where sex offenders have to register for urinating in public, grabbing a butt, or for talking dirty to a teenager. Most sex offenses against children are actually sex offenses against children...no there's a concept!
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Message 120049 (In Reply to Message 120016)
Scary
Posted by myoung
on Oct 18, 2003 04:13 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
It truly sickens me that we have to jump through hoops to get certain things in life.....like a mortgage, a gun, a car loan, a promotion, etc. But, anyone can become a parent.!! Yeah, I think there should be guidelines......forced sterilization doesn't sound too bad either when I think about some of the people I have had the displeasure to know. I am among the parent population too and some of the things I see are frightening. I have been witness to some of the conditions that children live in near a building I own in a local city. Specifically, a woman who rented from me several years ago had a daughter that everyone called Sissy. She had 4 or 5 children at that time and she was all of 26 I believe. The two year old was basically being raised by my tenant and the others were wards of the state. Sissy has terrible epilepsy but does ilicit drugs, smokes and drinks quite heavily also. She also prostitutes to buy groceries and cigarettes even though she collects SSI, SSD and food stamps. Just after her mother moved out of my building, I heard that Sissy was, yes, you guessed it....pregnant again. This time, she was doing drugs and having sex with many local men. This child was born brain dead and will never sit up, speak, hear or feed itself. I was told that Sissy basically said, "Let the state have it, I don't want it" as she has stated about all of her previous children. We, as tax payers, paid for the birth and care of that child yet we have no say in how the situation is handled. Anyway, the two year old I mentioned previously was witness to her mother having sex with all of these men and I don't even want to think about what might be happening to that precious child. She now curses like a truck driver and talks about sex. She is currently four years old (future inmate......I think the odds are in favor). Yeah, there ought to be a law or something!! I know we can't do that but I have my fantasies about a perfect world so let me live in them every now and again.
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Message 120057 (In Reply to Message 120046)
Thank YOU! DP1
Posted by SurvivorForever
on Oct 18, 2003 07:51 AM | Also by SurvivorForever
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Thank you!
You took the words right out of my fingers.
Survivor
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Message 120059 (In Reply to Message 120038)
Reply for DP1
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 18, 2003 09:31 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
"Comparing her actions to a convicted sex offender's actions is completely out of line and unexceptable. You are comparing apples and oranges in an attempt to minimize what these monsters do to our children. "
Yes and no. I compare "rape" as worse yes. But some cases like exposure, a 5 second grope in a shower or showing a child a playboy magazine far LESS serious then this womans crime. Yet this woman will probably get probation and never have to register.
That is wrong.
Silverthorne
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Message 120060 (In Reply to Message 120049)
Sick of kids
Posted by Silverthorne
on Oct 18, 2003 09:35 AM | Also by Silverthorne
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Arizona,
Country: United States |
As a taxpayer I'm sick of people having kids they can't afford. If driving a car or flying a plane is a "privledge" so should the right to have a family.
Some people have no business being parents. They don't have the education or financial means to support one. Having kids today is a "right" but taking care of them is optional it seems.
When I drive down to the barrio here in Phoenix and see young Latina girls who look all of 22 pushing a stroller while pregnant and having 4-5 kids in tow I really shake my head.
I also get enraged these people get tax refunds this year for each kid they have while I get some lame rate cut which isn't a cut at all. Then at the end of the year when I file taxes I pay MORE then my share to make up for the people with kids who pay LESS then their share because of all their kid deducations. Don't even start in on property taxes and schools.
Silverthorne
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Message 120068 (In Reply to Message 120046)
Talking about sex
Posted by orolan
on Oct 18, 2003 02:29 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
DP1,
Apparently you answered this before reading my story, because that is exactly what happened to me. I talked to a minor about sex.
To keep it close to where you are, here are 3 laws that have been used to prosecute people for simply talking about sex with a minor, on the premise that a person who would talk to a minor about sex is obviously attempting to get said minor to commit some act, otherwise they wouldn't talk about it.
Georgia
16-6-5.
(a) A person commits the offense of enticing a child for indecent purposes when he or she solicits, entices, or takes any child under the age of 16 years to any place whatsoever for the purpose of child molestation or indecent acts.
Alabama
Section 13A-6-69
Enticing child to enter vehicle, house, etc., for immoral purposes.
It shall be unlawful for any person with lascivious intent to entice, allure, persuade or invite, or attempt to entice, allure, persuade or invite, any child under 16 years of age to enter any vehicle, room, house, office or other place for the purpose of proposing to such child the performance of an act of sexual intercourse or an act which constitutes the offense of sodomy or for the purpose of proposing the fondling or feeling of the sexual or genital parts of such child or the breast of such child, or for the purpose of committing an aggravated assault on such child, or for the purpose of proposing that such child fondle or feel the sexual or genital parts of such person.
Florida
800.04(6)(a)(2) Solicits a person under 16 years of age to commit a lewd or lascivious act
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Message 120078 (In Reply to Message 120046)
Posted by simon
on Oct 18, 2003 07:22 PM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
"how many people do I know who are convicted sex offenders where their only offense was talking to minors about sex? Now wait a minute...I have to really think about this one...OOPPPs the answer is ZERO.? "
You know of at least one through this board.
"By the way, is there even a statute in any state in the US where talking about sex with minors is prohibited?"
Orolan has also provided a few statutes in different states that indicate that talking to a minor about sex can be a risky venture.
"...so we could all educate ourselves on how an adult could be guilty of a Felony sex crime by talking about sex with a minor...and have to register as a result."
We can see that Orolan's case it certainly was...resulting in a felony conviction tht requires registration. So far...you're 0 for 3 DP1.
As far as minimizing sex crimes. I am not doing that. But I'm not allowing you too misrepresent ALL sex crimes as "rape of a child" and therefore (in your blatant exaggeration) as the worst crime -- in ALL cases -- of any except murder.
Sex offenses occur in a wide range of degree: from touching of a breast or talking to a minor to the extreme -- and comparatively rare -- violently forced rapes. I do not minimize violent rape (of anyone) and likewise non-violent sexual offenses should not be misrepresented just to advance an agenda. Just as you oppose what you feel is that minimizing of sexual offenses by some on this board I oppose the misrepresentation of sexual offenses as ALL violent, ALL "rape of a child", ALL serial multiple offenses.
BTW, rather than saying that "most sex offenses against children are actually sex offenses against children" as you do, I would ALL of them are.
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Message 120079 (In Reply to Message 120078)
Reply to Simon
Posted by dp1
on Oct 18, 2003 09:45 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0800/SEC04.HTM&Title=->2003->Ch0800->Section%2004
Above I posted the link to the Florida Statute which Orolan previously posted as evidence that it is against the law to talk about sex with a minor. Nowhere in the statute does it say that, sorry. It is against the law to entice a minor or solicite......big difference.....look at the statute Simon and see for yourself how the minimized version of "just talking about sex" does not apply. Orolan would have had to either have sex with a minor or solicite a minor for sex to be guilty of this particular statute.
This is a no brainer!
I am not framiliar with the other statutes from other states but it looks like I am 1 for 1 - what about you Simon? How can the literal interpretation of the statute be exagerated? It's very direct....don't have sex with a minor or don't solicite sex from a minor......this is not discussing sex. What we do on this board is discuss sex. What do you do to discuss sex? Do your discussions include asking a minor to give you oral sex? I should hope not since this is clearly a felony offense. Do you discuss sex with a minor by explaining the birds and the bees and advising them what condoms are? That's what normal responsible adults do and it is not against the law.
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Message 120087 (In Reply to Message 120078)
okay simon, let's call it what it is
Posted by myoung
on Oct 19, 2003 06:03 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
Simon, a decent human being does not try to minimize in any way a crime against a child. Maybe what we should call it is the rape of a soul. No court in the world has yet to prove or disprove the existence of a "soul" so let's call it that shall we. It is the very essence of what makes a child just that, a child. You can try and get technical all you want but it is what it is.......a crime against innocence! No one has that right. I read the statutes that were posted. Maybe I am illiterate but I did not read anything about "talking" to a minor about sex. I read lots about soliciting, coercing, etc. but not talking. However we need to justify our thoughts is not, in itself, justification!
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Message 120095 (In Reply to Message 120079)
Posted by simon
on Oct 19, 2003 06:36 AM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
"Do your discussions include asking a minor to give you oral sex?"
Are you getting personal? Is this a proper way to have a discussion?
You could certainly phrase your question without making suggestions about my behavior.
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Message 120108 (In Reply to Message 120095)
Reply to Simon
Posted by dp1
on Oct 19, 2003 05:15 PM | Also by dp1
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Florida,
Country: United States |
DP1 asked:
"Do your discussions include asking a minor to give you oral sex?"
Simon then asked:
"Are you getting personal? Is this a proper way to have a discussion?"
The proper way to have a discussion is to discuss the issues frankly. The issues at hand were whether or not a certain sex offense included actual sex with a minor, inticing sex from a minor or the legal activity of discussing sex responsibly with a minor.
There is no question that 2 out of the 3 activities are offensive. Sorry if I in any way insinuated that you might have engaged in any of those activities. My intent was to show the difference between talking about sex and the inticement of a minor. I am confident that an intelligent person such as yourself can see the difference.
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Message 120111 (In Reply to Message 120087)
To DP1 and myoung
Posted by orolan
on Oct 19, 2003 05:43 PM | Also by orolan
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
"Maybe I am illiterate but I did not read anything about "talking" to a minor about sex. I read lots about soliciting, coercing, etc. but not talking"
Maybe you can explain then just exactly HOW a person would go about "enticing", "soliciting" or "coercing" without ever SPEAKING? I'd love to here it. Miming? Sign language?
Courts have held that "enticement" to commit an act DOES NOT require that the act actually occur. Only that some form of discussion about the act that could lead to commission occurred.
An adult who asks a minor "Are you a virgin?", "Do you have sex often?", "Do you like fellatio?" has walked a narrow line. As soon as that adult adds "I like fellatio" after asking the above questions, the line has been crossed and he/she can be prosecuted on the grounds that the minor was being "enticed" to commit the act. I'll see about finding some caselaw in the Southeast to support this fact.
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Message 120124 (In Reply to Message 120087)
Posted by simon
on Oct 19, 2003 08:55 PM | Also by simon
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Oregon,
Country: United States |
What you consider "talking" can be interpreted as "coercing" by others. Application of laws to a specific set of cicumstances is up to the discretion of the justice system. In a neighboring state there's a statute titled "Communicating with a Minor for Immoral Purposes". It can easily be and has easily been applied to "talking".
I agree that crime of any type should be minimized...that even includes crimes against non-children. I also believe that our society tends run scared and exaggerate crime.
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Message 120142 (In Reply to Message 120060)
The right to have kids.
Posted by Rachel
on Oct 20, 2003 01:31 AM | Also by Rachel
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Australia |
Parents like the mother in the suicide news story SHOULD definitely either be sterilised or have a a lot of conditions placed on them before they are ever allowed to raise more children.
I take exception to the idea of mothers who are supported by the government not being allowed to have children.
Not everyone who is on welfare starts out that way, a lot of women have working husbands to begin with, and due to marriage breakdowns, or the husband losing his job, aren't able to support themselves. If the woman finds herself suddenly single with young kids, who is supposed to look after the kids if she goes out to work ??
God help your country if it starts placing financial conditions on the right to give birth - you will end up as sad a country as China.
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Message 120144 (In Reply to Message 120142)
to Rachel
Posted by myoung
on Oct 20, 2003 02:14 AM | Also by myoung
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Pennsylvania,
Country: United States |
I don't think anyone would say a woman on welfare should not have any more children although it would be prudent for her to reconsider waiting until she is more financially stable. I understand about the marriage breakdown. My first husband was an alcoholic, molested my oldest daughter while intoxicated. I ended up trying to complete college with two chiklren in tow on welfare living in housing. It sucked to say the least but we survived it. My children have a lot of mental scars but I am a chemist, they have a great home and we own some rentals. It has finally come full circle. I would never have considered having another child during the hardship time. It just wouldn't be fair to my other children nor myself. The woman I spoke of in the "scary" reply was just spitting kids out for the shear heck of it. She was very irresponsible and it disgusts me that we can't do anything about people such as her. She simply gave birth and said, well, I really don't want it. Her children have severe mental and physical deficits because of her abuses during pregnancy and most likely from what they endure in their current environments. It is a very sad thing. It would be prudent for our country to intervene in these cases before there are ten unwanted (by the mother) children out there. She is like a baby machine without any feelings for those kids. I have met a lot of absolutely wonderful mothers who only want the best for their kids and welfare helped them as a means to an end. But, I have also met women who spend their life figuring out ways to have more children to acquire the extra 1K per child etc. It becomes generational. Very very sad:(
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Message 163264 (In Reply to Message 120016)
Posted by prozac
on Oct 02, 2005 05:39 AM | Also by prozac
| Gender: Male,
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State: N/A,
Country: United States |
They say a molester can pick out a victim in a crowd of children. The one who is withdrawn, alone and quite. The one starving for love. Bullies can do the same thing.
This case should have been caught and fixed long before it got to this point, and we wouldn't have to be talking about suicide or sterilization.
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Message 163301 (In Reply to Message 163264)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 02, 2005 07:40 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
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State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
The FBI uses hackers to protect their computer systems.
I can spot couples who are swinger from 50 paces in the mall, I could also probably with a pretty good success rate, spend a month in a police station and tell which cops would fail the psychosexual penile or vaginal test for sexual attraction to teens, or teens having sex.
I do not understand the attraction to really young children who are undeveloped. I am not judging anyone, I just could not identify those who have that attraction because I dont have it and I do not understand it.
However, I see many many 16-17 year old girls who are physically prepared for breeding and my internal instincts recognize the movements they make unwittingly to attract the bulls..... Red lipstick, hair tossing, flirtatous eye contact, eye recontact.... Cracks me up to be strolling through the mall with my wife and watch those older teens do everything they can to get my attention.... cracks me up, but the wife... oh my, she is not impressed. My hand gets held a lot. LOL.
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Message 163394 (In Reply to Message 163301)
But they are Children.......
Posted by victorialondon
on Oct 03, 2005 05:46 PM | Also by victorialondon
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United Kingdom |
"Red lipstick,hair tossing,flirtaceous eye contact"
Now that "flirtaceous eye contact",may be in your mind.
But let everyone WATCH OUT.
These 16/17 year olds are Children in some states.And anyone having consensual sex,or even feeling through clothing stands to be branded,posted and pilloried.Although his action would have been legal across the road in the next state.
If they have a "Romeo and Juliet" affair with someone of their own age,they may both then be posted and pilloried on the registry ,the address where they live with their small Child sisters and brothers so published.as having "RAPED" each other.
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Message 163404 (In Reply to Message 163394)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 03, 2005 08:09 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Relax.
I am no danger to any of them.
Maybe you might be a ghoul that doesnt understand the nuances of how the female tries to attract males.
Heck... read a book, the library is full of them. It is quite simple actually. Have you never courted or been courted, do you not understand the human mind?
Or is this something that you cannot copy and paste, over and over and over and over and over and over....... again and again and again and again.
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Message 163429 (In Reply to Message 120038)
Posted by Scaye
on Oct 04, 2005 05:38 AM | Also by Scaye
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United States |
I have to disagree with you Dp1. A crime is a crime. Morally you may believe like many do that sexual abuse is the worst thing in the world, but it's only that "bad" because you believe it in your head.
Perhaps this will be hard to follow because I think a bit different.
Anyhow, you do not take a childs "innocence" away by sexual abusing them. Perhaps you take a parent's away, but not a childs. A parent is the one who now believes there is something wrong with the child, that there will always be. (Given there are parents not like this, but most are) A child will always keep their innocent nature until the rest is driven out of them by life itself. But one thing happening in life doesn't do that. It takes many years of life to drain innocence that is their at birth.
Sexual abuse is not right, but it is not the worst thing on the face of the earth. If you have been sexually abused perhaps if you have never dealt with it, it seems like the worst thing possible, but that goes for anything in anyones past; espically if it includes a persons parents.
It's my opinion that anyone with a hard-on for sexual abuse should never have control over sexual offenders. I would expect that type of guideline for any crime.
Pehaps P.O. should make more money, and perhaps it should be a very hard profession to get into because people's lifes hang in the balance. All personal bias should be hung at the door. Given... I know some people don't even try, but some of them have just lost hope, while others are products of their environment. (ramble off)
Anyhow my main point was about how people think sexual abuse is the worst thing ever. I wish I had to power to show people just how bad things can be, and then let them take a survey.
)the end(
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Message 163440 (In Reply to Message 163404)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 04, 2005 09:02 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
Maybe you might be a ghoul that doesnt understand the nuances of how the female tries to attract males.
or maybe she, like the rest of us females, know how much fun young girls have "flirting" and then laughing at the "creepy old guy".
Not trying to be mean at all, but, with the age bracket of 40-49, unless you are some 'drop dead gorgous hunk' and I mean movie star material with a very baby face...you should probably NOT be so impressed with the "flirting"..they think they are doing the "creepy old guy" a favor! However maybe you are that darn gorgous and they really are flirting with you.
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Message 163443 (In Reply to Message 120142)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 04, 2005 09:59 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
I think that what they ment was the mothers who get onto welfare and THEN procede to have 3, 4, 5 kids and are pregnant again and have not been OFF welfare in years and now thier oldest daughter is pregnant and applied for welfare within the first few weeks of the pregnancy and the Grandmother still lives in the house with them and even though she only worked at the one job for a few months 30 years ago, she has been collecting disability ever since she 'fell and pulled her back' while at work.
I am talking about a real family here..they used to live next door to me..I have no idea what they raked in a month but I do know that there was at least 4 women in the house collecting welfare and the grandmother who got SDI and when the 15 year old got pregnant she made the comment to me that she could not wait for her first welfare check to come in so she "could be rich too".
What was even more frustrating was that while she was telling me this I was working on my own broken down car so that I could get to work to pay for their darn welfare!!
I honestly feel that everyone is intitled to one mistake so the first time you get pregnant WHILE ON state funding..thats cool...the second time, life sucks to be you! Automatic sterilization! and that includes your man if he is on welfare with you.
As to child abuse..and I do mean child ABUSE, not spanking your kid or just having a filthy house, I mean child abuse where you beat them or leave them alone for hours and days at a time or dont feed them or tell them how worthless they are daily etc etc etc.... once it is PROVED then those kids should be removed from your home and NEVER returned and you should be sterilized ASAP. NO second chances 'because you have learned your lesson' or whatever..you are not fit, period!! and I dont care if you were on drugs or anything else. Well...maybe if you can prove mental illness and can get a TOTAL release from the Doctor (with the understanding that if you re-offend HE/SHE goes to prison with you) THEN you can have your kids back.
HOWEVER I also think that when the cops go to all the neighbors and they all say..."I knew that something was going on, that poor kid came to my house and asked me for food all the time" or " I knew something was going on there, I could hear the screaming at all times of night" THEY need to go to jail too and if they have kids they should ALSO lose thiers! THIS also is a true story!!
My cousin lost his 3 kids to the courts, who then later gave them to my sister. AFTER he lost them THEN the damn neighbors came out and told my Aunt (the kids grandmother) how the little kids would come to thier houses naked, dirty and hungry ALL THE TIME!! They told my Aunt how they used to set out food on thier porches so that the kids could just come get it! They told my Aunt how they would hear all the fighting and hitting from thier house and would feel SOOO sorry for those poor little kids!! I feel that each and every one of those neighbors should have been in jail along with my cousin!! THEY abused those kids as much as my cousin did!!
Just in answer to some of the questions I KNOW will be coming...
they lived in another state where there were no other relatives SO we had NO way of knowing what was going on with these kids. The kids were at the time 2, 3, and 5. Even the 5 year old did not know how to use silverware and spoke little. The 2 and 3 year olds, both girls, had been molested and were TERRIFIED of baths for some reason. They now live in another State with my sister and her husband who can not have children of thier own and after just a few years of therapy are doing just fine. They are now 5,6 and 8 and my sister has been told that the youngest is 'highly gifted' and she has been put into some special program. The two girls are also water nuts and she cant keep them out of the bathtub now!
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Message 163444 (In Reply to Message 163440)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 04, 2005 10:08 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
did anyone notice that while we are anwering a post that was started in OCTOBER ok, it was in October of 2003?
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Message 163484 (In Reply to Message 163440)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 04, 2005 04:12 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Well I will let you decide:
I am 5'2", 245 pounds, balding, cross-eyed, crooked nose broken in fights, my beard only grows on one side of my face because of a burn injury in the service, my penis is only 2" long that one time a year it works, my teeth are green, except the ones in front that have fallen out, I have a chronic runny nose and a bad limp, one ear lays flat against my head, the other sticks way out. My skin is splotchy from Gulf War syndrome and I have an irritating twitch. I also stutter and interrupt people, have butt acne and my nose hair could be braided. My feet are so gross that to describe them here would have me removed from the site and charged with another crime.
Wanna Date?
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Message 163495 (In Reply to Message 163404)
If you want that read Desmond Morris......
Posted by victorialondon
on Oct 04, 2005 05:45 PM | Also by victorialondon
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: United Kingdom |
If you want a resume of human courtship,explained in the same terms as animal courtship,then I'd recommend you read Desmond Morris's books,like "The naked ape" and "the human zoo"
P.S ,Same gender relations and oral sex have been observed in more than 100 species,there are gay penguins,presumably it exists in all forms of sexually active life.
So when poor people are posted in Louisiana(just search the Louisiana registry site with any common Woman's first name to see the legion of poor Women,posted and pilloried there,the address where they live with their Children so published),as many are,for "CRIME AGAINST NATURE!!!",which heinous sounding offence in fact consists of the victimless act of oral sex between consenting adults,this is in fact incorrect.IT'S PERFECTLY NATURAL.
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Message 163648 (In Reply to Message 163484)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 06, 2005 08:23 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
WOO HOO...I have been looking for you all my life!! lets go baby!! lol
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Message 163649 (In Reply to Message 163429)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 06, 2005 08:34 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
wow! I bet you are a child molester arent you? The ONLY people that would EVER make the statement that "SEXUAL ABUSE is only bad in your head" and/or "sexual ABUSE does not take a childs innocences away" is the one doing the SEXUAL ABUSING!!
Perhaps this will be hard to follow because I think a bit different.
yes you do..I hope that you are still in counciling for that.
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Message 163652 (In Reply to Message 163649)
Posted by joy1234
on Oct 06, 2005 11:45 AM | Also by joy1234
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: New York,
Country: United States |
I think what he meant was that it is bad but you can get over it and that life in general will take away a childs innocence. I just had this conversation yesterday and I will compare sex offenses to child abuse. Physical and mental abuse is just as bad if not worse than sexual abuse. it is the rape of the child as a whole, the mind the body and the spirit. Sexual abuse if not to a severe extreme can be treated, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel. Physical and mental abuse is sooo much harder to get past. Maybe for the people who say it is not, have never had their heads banged on a sink until it split open, or put into a bathtub full of ice cold water with someone taking their head and holding it under until they can't breathe, or locked naked in a attic or a cellar for hours without food for a day or two, or beat with a belt so long and hard that you thought you would pass out from the pain. Or maybe they were never told on a daily basis that they were ugly and worthless and how they would never amount to anything and how when you prayed to GOD to help you, they were beaten again because you were told you were not worthy of GOD and how dare you call his name. I watch and listen to one of sister's who is forever ruined not because of her being sexually abused but because my mother took her soul away and broke her heart forever, leaving her in shattered pieces because there is no answer for someone who has no maternal instict, there is no cure for that, no amount of jail or therapy can instill it. In therapy we came to grips and learned to understand that the sexual abuse was not our fault, our father also let use know that he was the sick one not us, he admitted his crimes and tried hard to be a better parent, that was not true of the other and no therapist could ever make us understand how one could hate your own children from birth.
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Message 163683 (In Reply to Message 163648)
Posted by Renunciation
on Oct 06, 2005 04:10 PM | Also by Renunciation
| Gender: N/A,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: N/A,
Country: Bahrain |
Sorry, you are going to have to work harder than that to get me baby. I need to be seduced! LOL.
I maybe an RSO, but I still have standards. Work for it Honey... it will be worth it in the end, lol.
Did I mention I have a dog with fleas and mange that comes with the deal?
Oh and we will live in the country, far away from noisy younguns!
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Message 163689 (In Reply to Message 163484)
Posted by iastatso
on Oct 06, 2005 04:34 PM | Also by iastatso
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Iowa,
Country: United States |
I don't think most people should have children but I'm not a big fan of making a law for everything we want. The human species is overpopulated and our genetic traits are becoming worse, not to mention the envirnment children are raised in. People tell me I would be a good father, how many people tell people they know to be sex offenders things like that often? My wife and I don't want to have children because it isn't right to want to have a child only to raise it in this shadow. For the record, I'm not attracted to children, but you can't tell that to a blanket legislation that assumes what people assume when you have a sex offense 'involvng a minor' on your sleeve
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Message 163754 (In Reply to Message 163652)
Posted by rebel51
on Oct 07, 2005 09:47 AM | Also by rebel51
| Gender: Female,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: California,
Country: United States |
I completely understand what you are saying and from your point of view, your horror is wayyyyyyyy worse than my horror! I would NEVER belittle what you or your sister went thru. I would NEVER try to say that one is worse than the other! They are BOTH abuse and horrible. I am not going to go into the mental issues I have or what I have gone thru in my life to get past what was done to me. Is MY pain worse than YOUR pain? absolutly not! However I will not EVER say that my pain was any LESS than yours eather! MY pain was just as horrifying as yours, MY life trama's and issues are just as important as yours are....the same as each person who has lived thru any abuse will feel that thier pain was the worst and NO ONE else will ever understand what they went thru etc etc....
He did not state that it was bad...he stated that
I have to disagree with you Dp1. A crime is a crime. Morally you may believe like many do that sexual abuse is the worst thing in the world, but it's only that "bad" because you believe it in your head.
Perhaps this will be hard to follow because I think a bit different.
Anyhow, you do not take a childs "innocence" away by sexual abusing them. Perhaps you take a parent's away, but not a childs. A parent is the one who now believes there is something wrong with the child, that there will always be.
In fact it states that it is ONLY BAD in your HEAD!!! I still state that ONLY a child molester would EVER make a statement like that!!
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Message 164445 (In Reply to Message 120049)
Posted by iastatso
on Oct 13, 2005 05:50 PM | Also by iastatso
| Gender: Male,
Age Bracket: N/A,
State: Iowa,
Country: United States |
If a woman had nine children (3 deaf, one mentally retarded, and a couple others with serious defects) and was diagnosed with syphillus, should she be allowed to have a tenth?
If you say no, then Beethoven would never have been born
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Thread
120016, Silverthorne, Oct 17, 2003 06:52 AM [Do we need a registry for bad parents to prev...]
120038, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 02:07 AM [The Mother Was a Pig]
120042, simon, Oct 18, 2003 02:46 AM
120046, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 03:54 AM [Yes Simon Let's Get Real]
120057, SurvivorForever, Oct 18, 2003 07:51 AM [Thank YOU! DP1]
120068, orolan, Oct 18, 2003 02:29 PM [Talking about sex]
120078, simon, Oct 18, 2003 07:22 PM
120079, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 09:45 PM [Reply to Simon]
120095, simon, Oct 19, 2003 06:36 AM
120108, dp1, Oct 19, 2003 05:15 PM [Reply to Simon]
120087, myoung, Oct 19, 2003 06:03 AM [okay simon, let's call it what it is]
120111, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 05:43 PM [To DP1 and myoung]
120124, simon, Oct 19, 2003 08:55 PM
120059, Silverthorne, Oct 18, 2003 09:31 AM [Reply for DP1]
163429, Scaye, Oct 04, 2005 05:38 AM
163649, rebel51, Oct 06, 2005 08:34 AM
163652, joy1234, Oct 06, 2005 11:45 AM
163754, rebel51, Oct 07, 2005 09:47 AM
163760, Rejected
120049, myoung, Oct 18, 2003 04:13 AM [Scary]
120060, Silverthorne, Oct 18, 2003 09:35 AM [Sick of kids]
120142, Rachel, Oct 20, 2003 01:31 AM [The right to have kids.]
120144, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 02:14 AM [to Rachel]
120145, Rejected
163443, rebel51, Oct 04, 2005 09:59 AM
164445, iastatso, Oct 13, 2005 05:50 PM
163264, prozac, Oct 02, 2005 05:39 AM
163301, Renunciation, Oct 02, 2005 07:40 PM
163394, victorialondon, Oct 03, 2005 05:46 PM [But they are Children.......]
163404, Renunciation, Oct 03, 2005 08:09 PM
163440, rebel51, Oct 04, 2005 09:02 AM
163444, rebel51, Oct 04, 2005 10:08 AM
163484, Renunciation, Oct 04, 2005 04:12 PM
163648, rebel51, Oct 06, 2005 08:23 AM
163683, Renunciation, Oct 06, 2005 04:10 PM
163689, iastatso, Oct 06, 2005 04:34 PM
163495, victorialondon, Oct 04, 2005 05:45 PM [If you want that read Desmo...]
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