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Forum: General

Thread (Discussion): Is Prevention even possible without understanding?

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Message 120625 (In Reply to Message 120602)

Posted by orolan on Oct 28, 2003 09:24 PM | Also by orolan

Gender: Male, Age Bracket: 40 - 49, State: N/A, Country: United States

Marta wrote:
>>>
people who are motivated by such personal emotions are not the best judges of what the law should be because they cannot be as objective as is required for making laws
>>>
Considering that Megan's Law and the Wetterling Act were written and passed in a whirlwind of personal emotion and knee-jerk outrage, I find this statement hilariously funny. Thanks for the laugh.

>>>
The problem is that the attitudes and values which inform such a decision vary widely from one area of the country to another
>>>
True. But the Fed had no problem finding a way to have a "unified" drinking age of 21, a "unified" smoking age of 18, a (formerly) "unified" maximum speed limit of 55MPH, and of course a "unified" requirement that there be sex offender registries. All of these were done regardless of the desires of the individual voters in the counties, parishes, etc of the individual states. So I see no reason why a unified AOC is not a strong possibility, especially when two-thirds of the states already have the same AOC.

>>>
decides to see the adult anyway
>>>
Then I'll get a protection order. I can do that to keep an adult away from my child. When he violates it, he goes to jail.

>>>
If a woman of 26 can legally have sex with a 16 year old male, and can also legally demand child support from the "father," how is the 16 year old ultimately being treated as anything but an 18 year old?
>>>
What's the difference? What if the "woman" is also 16? Does she not still have the right to demand support from the father? Is this not still a burden on the parents? Your rationale, carried through, would lead to a total ban on sex by or with anybody until they became legal adults.

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Message 120602
Ah, I see.

Posted by marta on Oct 28, 2003 01:05 AM | Also by marta

Gender: Female, Age Bracket: 30 - 39, State: N/A, Country: United States

Orolan wrote:
-------------------------
Oh? But you allude that a sex offender and an admitted pedophile are the only people who want a unified AOC. And then you close with this "as evidence of their soundness", which tells me you think the current laws are fine. How would I ever think that you believe my opinion to be wrong!
-------------------------
Your interpretation of what I said has everything to do with what I'm talking about.  I see your opinion as nothing more (neither wrong, nor right) than what it is:  your opinion.  As such, you must confess that it is influenced by the excessive response the government had to your personal mistake.  Likewise, H. Pierce's opinion about AOCs is heavily influenced by his sexual attraction to young girls.  All I suggested is that perhaps people who are motivated by such personal emotions are not the best judges of what the law should be because they cannot be as objective as is required for making laws.

orolan wrote:
-------------------------
Can you argue that it has? 
-------------------------
Of course I can.  The proof is that wherever people have seen fit to name an AOC, they have done so democratically.

orolan wrote:
-------------------------
Do you have evidence of bills introduced in either chamber of Congress seeking a unified AOC? 
-------------------------
I have no problem with a unified AOC per se, but I very much doubt that you could convince a sufficient number of people to adopt a national AOC.  The problem is that the attitudes and values which inform such a decision vary widely from one area of the country to another.  I'm not so narrow-minded as to say that the people in Southern Louisiana should not be able to have an AOC of 12, or that the people in New York should not be able to have an AOC of 16.  As the age of consent is informed by regional attitudes and practice, it has to be determined regionally for it to be democratic.  But perhaps that's just my states rights streak showing through.

orolan wrote:
------------------------
I live in a state that has an AOC of 16, and there is no age restriction for adults having sex with minors of the AOC. But I am not powerless. I have every right to limit who my child speaks to, goes somewhere with, brings into my house, etc. The AOC has nothing to do with that, so I have plenty of "power" to control my child's sexual activity, if any.
-----------------------
And what if your child, encouraged by the romancing adult, and the fact that they are pubescent, decides to see the adult anyway?  What, are you going to lock them to their bed?  The most absolute way for a parent to be able to control the sexual activity of their children, where another adult is involved, is to give their concerns the force of law.  I think that the power to prosecute should lie with the parents.  If they don't care, then nothing happens, but if they do, then they can get restraining orders and eventually, if necessary, file charges.

orolan wrote:
-----------------------
I fail to see your logic. Somewhere around 32 states have an AOC of 16 and an age of majority of 18, and around 22 of those have no restrictions on the age of the participating adult. But I don't see mass protests by parents and scores of 16 year-olds demanding that they be given the rights they must otherwise wait until age 18 to obtain.
----------------------
If a woman of 26 can legally have sex with a 16 year old male, and can also legally demand child support from the "father," how is the 16 year old ultimately being treated as anything but an 18 year old?  Not to mention that if the parents want to help their child at all, they are also going to suffer the consequences of a stupid law which treated a 16 year old, for the most important intents and purposes, as an adult.

Thread

120015, Silverthorne, Oct 17, 2003 06:43 AM [Is Prevention even possible without understan...]
      120021, HPierce, Oct 17, 2003 04:31 PM [Better yet]
            120025, orolan, Oct 17, 2003 05:57 PM [AOC idiocy]
                  120027, betsemes, Oct 17, 2003 06:40 PM
                        120033, orolan, Oct 17, 2003 10:50 PM [chastity]
                              120050, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 04:50 AM [Prior Abuse or Sex Acts?]
                                    120067, orolan, Oct 18, 2003 01:34 PM [Culpability]
                              120056, SurvivorForever, Oct 18, 2003 07:30 AM
                                    120113, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 05:59 PM
                                          120773, marta, Oct 31, 2003 02:45 PM [You and teenaged girls]
                  120487, marta, Oct 26, 2003 12:31 AM
                        120512, ladyjane, Oct 26, 2003 03:18 PM [So somebody help me understand.]
                              120515, orolan, Oct 26, 2003 04:48 PM [reply to LadyJane]
                              120550, marta, Oct 27, 2003 04:26 AM [Come again?]
                        120514, orolan, Oct 26, 2003 04:44 PM [AOC]
                              120551, marta, Oct 27, 2003 04:38 AM [Stand down]
                                    120580, orolan, Oct 27, 2003 07:54 PM
                                          120602, marta, Oct 28, 2003 01:05 AM [Ah, I see.]
                                                120625, orolan, Oct 28, 2003 09:24 PM
                                                      120672, marta, Oct 29, 2003 03:06 PM
                                                            120703, orolan, Oct 30, 2003 12:20 AM
                                                                  120723, marta, Oct 30, 2003 03:10 PM
                                          120603, Rejected
                              120573, myoung, Oct 27, 2003 04:31 PM [orolan.....virginity]
                                    120575, steve, Oct 27, 2003 05:00 PM
            120051, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 05:04 AM [Minors Are Too Young To Consent]
                  120114, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 06:26 PM [terminology]
      120039, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 02:26 AM [You Can't Prevent Something From Nothing]
            120061, Silverthorne, Oct 18, 2003 09:38 AM [Your right DP1]
      120161, Dragonfly, Oct 20, 2003 04:49 AM [An Addendum]
            120199, Silverthorne, Oct 20, 2003 04:37 PM [Depends]
                  120242, myoung, Oct 21, 2003 04:52 AM [just plain crazy]
                        120261, orolan, Oct 21, 2003 04:15 PM [rewire]
                              120309, myoung, Oct 22, 2003 05:49 AM [girl rewired]
                                    120323, orolan, Oct 22, 2003 04:15 PM [Clarification]
                  120245, Dragonfly, Oct 21, 2003 07:54 AM
                        120247, dp1, Oct 21, 2003 01:21 PM [Help = $$$$$]
      120182, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 01:33 PM [Dragonfly]
      120183, Rejected
      120594, myoung, Oct 27, 2003 11:41 PM [You go steve!!]
            120600, steve, Oct 28, 2003 12:14 AM
                  120601, steve, Oct 28, 2003 12:16 AM
      120595, Rejected
      120596, Rejected

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Forum: GeneralThread (Discussion): Is Prevention even possible without understanding?

Message 120625 (In Reply to Message 120602)

Message 120602Ah, I see.

Thread

Forum: General

Thread (Discussion): Is Prevention even possible without understanding?

Message 120602
Ah, I see.