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Forum: General

Thread (Discussion): Is Prevention even possible without understanding?

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Message 120551 (In Reply to Message 120514)
Stand down

Posted by marta on Oct 27, 2003 04:38 AM | Also by marta

Gender: Female, Age Bracket: 30 - 39, State: N/A, Country: United States

orolan wrote:
------------------------------
And it's not clear to me why you can be so arrogant in that since you disagree with my OPINION, it is obviously wrong. Perhaps you can enlighten me and tell me what is so WRONG in your eyes about a unified AOC?
------------------------------

Nowhere did I arrogate to say that your opinion is "wrong." Such a statement is nonsensical as far as I'm concerned. My only point was the same as yours: that the people should democratically decide the AOC. And what they decide should become law, regardless of whether you think it realistic or not.

My question for you is: how can you argue that all of this has not already occurred? Are you so self-righteous as to think that people must not have really thought about this issue, because if they had actually thought about it, they would surely have come to the same conclusions you have, rather than pass these retched AOCs that you find so unrealistic?

orolan wrote:
-------------------------
Consider that the whole premise behind an AOC and laws about sex involving minors revolves around the concept that the minors are innocent, impressionable, immature, naive and unable to make a decision on their own about having sex. So if said minors are already sexually active with their fellow minors, can you tell me what is left of their innocence and naivete for an adult to exploit and take advantage of? What "harm" has been done?
-------------------------

I'm not so arrogant as to assume that wherever a parent is angry upon finding out their child is having sex, it is because they were naive and thought their child a lily white innocent. However, even if we were to assume this to ALWAYS be the case, are you actually suggesting that such parents be powerless to prevent such activity despite their continuing legal liability? If that's what you'd like, fine, so long as the romancing adult in question becomes the new legal guardian.

What you are actually arguing, in case you haven't noticed yet, is simply to reduce the age of majority to 16. Go ahead, try getting a consensus on that one.

See an abbreviation or acronym, but don't know what it stands for? Consult the Glossary.

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Message 120514
AOC

Posted by orolan on Oct 26, 2003 04:44 PM | Also by orolan

Gender: Male, Age Bracket: 40 - 49, State: N/A, Country: United States

Marta wrote:
>>>
And who would decide what "realistic" is?
>>>
Certainly not me. The public, through their duly-elected representatives in Congress would make this decision. I can only offer my opinion of what "I" think realistic is. States have set the AOC at anywhere from 14 to 18, though the trend is to bring the lower ages up to 16. I agree with this trend and would have little problem supporting a national AOC of 16 with a few caveats.

>>>
It's still not clear to me why you and H. Pierce think that because YOU find extant AOCs unreasonable, it means they have to change
>>>
And it's not clear to me why you can be so arrogant in that since you disagree with my OPINION, it is obviously wrong. Perhaps you can enlighten me and tell me what is so WRONG in your eyes about a unified AOC?

>>>
In the rare times that it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor who is of the AOC
>>>
A unified AOC would eliminate the various laws where a person 18-21 is guilty of a minor felony, persons 22 and up a major felony, or the various "age-difference" statutes. Sex between an adult and a person who was of the AOC would be legal regardless of whether the adult was 20 or 60.

>>> 
stupid defenses like lack of chastity.  The implication of this defense is that the harm done to a minor in such a situation exists only where the minor was a virgin
>>>
Consider that the whole premise behind an AOC and laws about sex involving minors revolves around the concept that the minors are innocent, impressionable, immature, naive and unable to make a decision on their own about having sex. So if said minors are already sexually active with their fellow minors, can you tell me what is left of their innocence and naivete for an adult to exploit and take advantage of? What "harm" has been done?

>>>
If a twelve year old (AOC) has had sex before with another 12 year old, do you actually think the parents are going to be any less appalled if some 25 year old starts chasing their kid around?  
>>>
I may have said 12 would be a good cutoff wherein sex between persons of that age and less and persons over that age is illegal. I don't recall advocating it as an AOC. As for parents being appalled, is that why we have the AOC? Not for the sake of the children, but for the sake of the parents? Funny, I don't recall reading a statute that says "Since parents of minors are subject to crying fits, sleepess nights and feelings of inadequacy when they learn that their darling children are having sex, said sex involving minors shall be illegal".

Thread

120015, Silverthorne, Oct 17, 2003 06:43 AM [Is Prevention even possible without understan...]
      120021, HPierce, Oct 17, 2003 04:31 PM [Better yet]
            120025, orolan, Oct 17, 2003 05:57 PM [AOC idiocy]
                  120027, betsemes, Oct 17, 2003 06:40 PM
                        120033, orolan, Oct 17, 2003 10:50 PM [chastity]
                              120050, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 04:50 AM [Prior Abuse or Sex Acts?]
                                    120067, orolan, Oct 18, 2003 01:34 PM [Culpability]
                              120056, SurvivorForever, Oct 18, 2003 07:30 AM
                                    120113, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 05:59 PM
                                          120773, marta, Oct 31, 2003 02:45 PM [You and teenaged girls]
                  120487, marta, Oct 26, 2003 12:31 AM
                        120512, ladyjane, Oct 26, 2003 03:18 PM [So somebody help me understand.]
                              120515, orolan, Oct 26, 2003 04:48 PM [reply to LadyJane]
                              120550, marta, Oct 27, 2003 04:26 AM [Come again?]
                        120514, orolan, Oct 26, 2003 04:44 PM [AOC]
                              120551, marta, Oct 27, 2003 04:38 AM [Stand down]
                                    120580, orolan, Oct 27, 2003 07:54 PM
                                          120602, marta, Oct 28, 2003 01:05 AM [Ah, I see.]
                                                120625, orolan, Oct 28, 2003 09:24 PM
                                                      120672, marta, Oct 29, 2003 03:06 PM
                                                            120703, orolan, Oct 30, 2003 12:20 AM
                                                                  120723, marta, Oct 30, 2003 03:10 PM
                                          120603, Rejected
                              120573, myoung, Oct 27, 2003 04:31 PM [orolan.....virginity]
                                    120575, steve, Oct 27, 2003 05:00 PM
            120051, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 05:04 AM [Minors Are Too Young To Consent]
                  120114, orolan, Oct 19, 2003 06:26 PM [terminology]
      120039, dp1, Oct 18, 2003 02:26 AM [You Can't Prevent Something From Nothing]
            120061, Silverthorne, Oct 18, 2003 09:38 AM [Your right DP1]
      120161, Dragonfly, Oct 20, 2003 04:49 AM [An Addendum]
            120199, Silverthorne, Oct 20, 2003 04:37 PM [Depends]
                  120242, myoung, Oct 21, 2003 04:52 AM [just plain crazy]
                        120261, orolan, Oct 21, 2003 04:15 PM [rewire]
                              120309, myoung, Oct 22, 2003 05:49 AM [girl rewired]
                                    120323, orolan, Oct 22, 2003 04:15 PM [Clarification]
                  120245, Dragonfly, Oct 21, 2003 07:54 AM
                        120247, dp1, Oct 21, 2003 01:21 PM [Help = $$$$$]
      120182, myoung, Oct 20, 2003 01:33 PM [Dragonfly]
      120183, Rejected
      120594, myoung, Oct 27, 2003 11:41 PM [You go steve!!]
            120600, steve, Oct 28, 2003 12:14 AM
                  120601, steve, Oct 28, 2003 12:16 AM
      120595, Rejected
      120596, Rejected

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Forum: GeneralThread (Discussion): Is Prevention even possible without understanding?

Message 120551 (In Reply to Message 120514)Stand down

Message 120514AOC

Thread

Forum: General

Thread (Discussion): Is Prevention even possible without understanding?

Message 120551 (In Reply to Message 120514)
Stand down

Message 120514
AOC